Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

All wrestling outside of ROH discussion welcome here!
Indynut
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:47 am

Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by Indynut »

I have thought about this. Many have given up on WWE over the years, yet so many do not give independent wrestling ferds a chance due to being turned off by WWE being bad.
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

CMLL has been going for 88 years and that's just one semi-competently run company. There will always be peaks and valleys in wrestling popularity. Could be 20 years of a down period but things will come back.
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

Indynut wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:47 am I have thought about this. Many have given up on WWE over the years, yet so many do not give independent wrestling ferds a chance due to being turned off by WWE being bad.
WWE is too big to fail, unless there’s a huge scandal that comes up. Would have to be drug, sex, or money related though. All the WWE needs is a super hot angle (96 nWo) or a huge star (mid 80s Hogan/late 90s Austin) or a combination of such.

At various points, I have stopped watching wrestling. For years at a time too. I think most people never really kick their like of pro wrestling. There’s always a good chance something will bring them back. There will always be those that were “mega fans” as kids and shit on it once they hit puberty.

Until people stop wanting to be wrestlers, I wouldn’t worry too much about it dying.
Reaper G
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by Reaper G »

Wrestling survived Vince McMahon revealing to the world that it wasn't really real.

It's survived dirtsheets, internet smarks, and social media taking us behind the scenes.

It's survived the Owen Hart and Chris Benoit tragedies.

Wrestling has had its peaks and valleys, and the in-ring product has changed greatly, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But it's been around for a hundred years, it'll be around for the next hundred.
Indynut
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:47 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by Indynut »

Reaper G wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:33 pm Wrestling survived Vince McMahon revealing to the world that it wasn't really real.

It's survived dirtsheets, internet smarks, and social media taking us behind the scenes.

It's survived the Owen Hart and Chris Benoit tragedies.

Wrestling has had its peaks and valleys, and the in-ring product has changed greatly, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But it's been around for a hundred years, it'll be around for the next hundred.
Wrestling is currently surviving a pandemic. I am not certain if wrestling will have another boom i.e. Rock & Wrestling Connection, Attitude Era
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

Indynut wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:27 am
Reaper G wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:33 pm Wrestling survived Vince McMahon revealing to the world that it wasn't really real.

It's survived dirtsheets, internet smarks, and social media taking us behind the scenes.

It's survived the Owen Hart and Chris Benoit tragedies.

Wrestling has had its peaks and valleys, and the in-ring product has changed greatly, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But it's been around for a hundred years, it'll be around for the next hundred.
Wrestling is currently surviving a pandemic. I am not certain if wrestling will have another boom i.e. Rock & Wrestling Connection, Attitude Era
Right now is better than the Attitude era. Lots of “successful” indy promotions and wrestlers. Did anyone care about indy wrestling when Stone Cold and Goldberg were hot?
Reaper G
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by Reaper G »

Indynut wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:27 am
Reaper G wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:33 pm Wrestling survived Vince McMahon revealing to the world that it wasn't really real.

It's survived dirtsheets, internet smarks, and social media taking us behind the scenes.

It's survived the Owen Hart and Chris Benoit tragedies.

Wrestling has had its peaks and valleys, and the in-ring product has changed greatly, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. But it's been around for a hundred years, it'll be around for the next hundred.
Wrestling is currently surviving a pandemic. I am not certain if wrestling will have another boom i.e. Rock & Wrestling Connection, Attitude Era
I thought we might get another boom from the Wednesday night wrestling war. Didn't work out that way, and I think the pandemic is a big reason why. I also think that DVRing shows, instead of needing to flip back and forth, was another factor.
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

There are currently six wrestling promotions in the US where you can make decent money (WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, NJPW of America, MLW) which is a lot but all six of them combined aren't as popular as the second most popular promotion was in 1998.
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

famicommander wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:55 pm There are currently six wrestling promotions in the US where you can make decent money (WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, NJPW of America, MLW) which is a lot but all six of them combined aren't as popular as the second most popular promotion was in 1998.
How are you defining “popular”? Based on what? I’ll take “6” places where wrestlers can earn a good living over 2.
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:04 am
famicommander wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:55 pm There are currently six wrestling promotions in the US where you can make decent money (WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, NJPW of America, MLW) which is a lot but all six of them combined aren't as popular as the second most popular promotion was in 1998.
How are you defining “popular”? Based on what? I’ll take “6” places where wrestlers can earn a good living over 2.
TV ratings, PPV buyrates, attendance, merch sales.

Smackdown today doesn't even outdraw Impact in 2009.
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

famicommander wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:11 am
NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:04 am
famicommander wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:55 pm There are currently six wrestling promotions in the US where you can make decent money (WWE, AEW, ROH, Impact, NJPW of America, MLW) which is a lot but all six of them combined aren't as popular as the second most popular promotion was in 1998.
How are you defining “popular”? Based on what? I’ll take “6” places where wrestlers can earn a good living over 2.
TV ratings, PPV buyrates, attendance, merch sales.

Smackdown today doesn't even outdraw Impact in 2009.
Apples to oranges

PPV buy rates are non-existent. WWE Network has “killed” that industry. Lots of internal PPV buys that are unverifiable.

Merch sales? What numbers are you using to make this determination?

TV ratings? Estimates put “cable” subs at 74 million. In 2013, there was 100 million. https://www.statista.com/statistics/251 ... in-the-us/

That’s 26 million less households without cable. How would you expect ratings to go up with 25% less people having access to it?

In 1998, you could not get an illegal feed for PPVs and TV, now you can. Or you can watch pieces on legal platforms. In 1998, you had to have cable or have someone tape it for you, which is an something untraceable. What shows have increased their viewers over the last 23 years???

Attendance was already going down for WCW in 1998 and only AEW and a few Impact Shows over the last 20 years have come close to 10,000.

Just because attendance is down, doesn’t mean it’s less popular. As in 1998, parking wasn’t $20, tickets and concessions were cheaper, and the only way to watch was on cable or live.

Saying that it’s less popular because of PPV and TV ratings are down is not a valid argument. Let’s see your numbers to PROVE that merch sales are down.
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

You don't understand what ratings are.

Cable cutting explains a drop in viewership, not ratings. Ratings are a percentage of the total audience watching TV at any given point in time. Now matter how many people are watching, a 1.0 rating means you drew 1% of that audience. At some points in 1998, Raw and Nitro were getting a combined 9.5+ rating. That doesn't include any of the other WWF or WCW programming, just the two flagship shows. Almost 10% of people watching television in the United States at that time were watching one of the two shows on Monday nights. Both shows were outdrawing Monday Night Football.

If you added up the ratings for Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite, NXT, Impact, ROH Wrestling, and Fusion and then tripled them it still wouldn't be close.
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

famicommander wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:53 am You don't understand what ratings are.

Cable cutting explains a drop in viewership, not ratings. Ratings are a percentage of the total audience watching TV at any given point in time. Now matter how many people are watching, a 1.0 rating means you drew 1% of that audience. At some points in 1998, Raw and Nitro were getting a combined 9.5+ rating. That doesn't include any of the other WWF or WCW programming, just the two flagship shows. Almost 10% of people watching television in the United States at that time were watching one of the two shows on Monday nights. Both shows were outdrawing Monday Night Football.

If you added up the ratings for Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite, NXT, Impact, ROH Wrestling, and Fusion and then tripled them it still wouldn't be close.
How many millions were watching in 98 compared to today? Did those ratings during the MNW account for those being double counted? It’s ridiculous to think that the people watching Raw and Nitro were unique viewers that didn’t switch back and forth.
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:03 am
famicommander wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:53 am You don't understand what ratings are.

Cable cutting explains a drop in viewership, not ratings. Ratings are a percentage of the total audience watching TV at any given point in time. Now matter how many people are watching, a 1.0 rating means you drew 1% of that audience. At some points in 1998, Raw and Nitro were getting a combined 9.5+ rating. That doesn't include any of the other WWF or WCW programming, just the two flagship shows. Almost 10% of people watching television in the United States at that time were watching one of the two shows on Monday nights. Both shows were outdrawing Monday Night Football.

If you added up the ratings for Raw, Smackdown, Dynamite, NXT, Impact, ROH Wrestling, and Fusion and then tripled them it still wouldn't be close.
How many millions were watching in 98 compared to today? Did those ratings during the MNW account for those being double counted? It’s ridiculous to think that the people watching Raw and Nitro were unique viewers that didn’t switch back and forth.
A 5.0 rating means that an average of 5% of the TV audience was watching for every minute of the broadcast. So no, they weren't double counting viewers. If they were switching back and forth the audience for one show would go up and the other would go down. Nielsen ratings are metered by the minute and the number that they give for the whole show is the average.

We're also not including the delayed Nitro broadcast and, obviously, DVRs didn't exist back then. This is just live viewers in real time.

Even the late replay of Nitro was pulling a 1.3 rating back then, which is more than Raw+Smackdown+Dynamite combined.
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

Yeah, again you’re not taking into account of double dipping. Say I watch the first hour of Raw, then the 2nd hour of Nitro. I would be counted as 2 separate wrestling fans, when it’s only 1.

It doesn’t matter though, as TV and PPV habits have changed dramatically in 20 years.

Still waiting on those merch numbers though….
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:54 am Yeah, again you’re not taking into account of double dipping. Say I watch the first hour of Raw, then the 2nd hour of Nitro. I would be counted as 2 separate wrestling fans, when it’s only 1.
No you wouldn't, you'd still be counted as one. When you switched to Nitro the audience for Raw would go down by one for the second hour.

Now I have to explain math to you?
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

famicommander wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:57 am
NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:54 am Yeah, again you’re not taking into account of double dipping. Say I watch the first hour of Raw, then the 2nd hour of Nitro. I would be counted as 2 separate wrestling fans, when it’s only 1.
No you wouldn't, you'd still be counted as one. When you switched to Nitro the audience for Raw would go down by one for the second hour.

Now I have to explain math to you?
Nope. As there were several articles back then saying something like 10 million fans are tuning in on Mondays. When, as I said, many of those were being double counted.

You do not have to explain math to me.

Still waiting on the merch numbers though…

Trying to pass off your own opinions as facts, as usual.
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:09 pm
famicommander wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:57 am
NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:54 am Yeah, again you’re not taking into account of double dipping. Say I watch the first hour of Raw, then the 2nd hour of Nitro. I would be counted as 2 separate wrestling fans, when it’s only 1.
No you wouldn't, you'd still be counted as one. When you switched to Nitro the audience for Raw would go down by one for the second hour.

Now I have to explain math to you?
Nope. As there were several articles back then saying something like 10 million fans are tuning in on Mondays. When, as I said, many of those were being double counted.

You do not have to explain math to me.

Still waiting on the merch numbers though…

Trying to pass off your own opinions as facts, as usual.
You really don't get math. Let's say there's 500 people watching Raw, and 500 people watching Nitro. You're #1001 in this scenario. You watch Raw for the first hour, it averages 501. You watch Nitro for the second hour, it averages 501, but Raw now averages 500 for the second hour.

So now both shows have averaged 500.5 viewers for the two hour span. You counted as 0.5 viewers over the 2 hour span for both shows.
User avatar
NewROHFan2020
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by NewROHFan2020 »

You don’t get what I’m saying, but whatever.

How bout those merch numbers?
famicommander
Posts: 3446
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:15 am

Re: Will Pro Wrestling Ever Die?

Post by famicommander »

NewROHFan2020 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:13 pm You don’t get what I’m saying, but whatever.

How bout those merch numbers?
No, you don't understand basic math or how ratings work. You've made that clear as day to everyone, there's no escaping that.
Post Reply