Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[monster mafia]

Great.
https://twitter.com/GCWrestling_/status ... zt0og&s=19

[Wavelet Transform]

The lawsuit brought against Ring of Honor by former ROH Women of Honor Champion Kelly Klein was closed on 11/16, Maryland court records show.
In an 11-page Memorandum Opinion written by United States District Judge Paula Xinis, Xinis agreed with Ring of Honor's arguments that based on the contract Klein signed, arbitration between the two parties should be where the two sides deal with the issues.

https://www.pwinsider.com/article/15393 ... n.html?p=1

There's a bit at the end discussing salaries of ROH talent. Assume the 189k was the highest in the company. If Steen just re-upped for 2-3 million/year, safe to assume top AEW talent are getting at least 1 million/year. Tough marketplace to compete for talent for ROH.

[NewROHFan2020]

The lawsuit brought against Ring of Honor by former ROH Women of Honor Champion Kelly Klein was closed on 11/16, Maryland court records show.
In an 11-page Memorandum Opinion written by United States District Judge Paula Xinis, Xinis agreed with Ring of Honor's arguments that based on the contract Klein signed, arbitration between the two parties should be where the two sides deal with the issues.

https://www.pwinsider.com/article/15393 ... n.html?p=1

There's a bit at the end discussing salaries of ROH talent. Assume the 189k was the highest in the company. If Steen just re-upped for 2-3 million/year, safe to assume top AEW talent are getting at least 1 million/year. Tough marketplace to compete for talent for ROH.

Yeah, but $189,000 is about 3 or 4 times more than most Americans make a year. And they’re working 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year. No ROH contracted wrestler is working that much. Working 5-8 times a month, when ROH did, for $189k is pretty good for the amount of time actually “working”. Let’s not pretend this is WWF 1988 when they’re working 7 days week, most of the year.

[monster mafia]

[Montana]

Plus ROH talent can take other bookings; and probably get some cut of the merch sales. 189K is higher than the base NXT salary. Believe that can be sub-100K for those in training; those out of ROH were like 100-125K. Main Roster is like 250K and up. Like 5-10 wrestlers are plus 1M.

I think AEW has a wide range of contract salaries; their top guys are well over 1M (Jericho, Mox, the EVP's... and i'm sure Punk, Danielson, and Adam Cole are well paid. However i imagine guys like MJF, Darby, Orange, Sammy, Jungle Boy are probably getting around 100-300K. I assume they all would want a noticeable pay raise.

I'd imagine the 189K is the high/high for ROH. Where as their mid-card talent is probably in the 50-75K.

[Wavelet Transform]

Plus ROH talent can take other bookings; and probably get some cut of the merch sales. 189K is higher than the base NXT salary. Believe that can be sub-100K for those in training; those out of ROH were like 100-125K. Main Roster is like 250K and up. Like 5-10 wrestlers are plus 1M.

I think AEW has a wide range of contract salaries; their top guys are well over 1M (Jericho, Mox, the EVP's... and i'm sure Punk, Danielson, and Adam Cole are well paid. However i imagine guys like MJF, Darby, Orange, Sammy, Jungle Boy are probably getting around 100-300K. I assume they all would want a noticeable pay raise.

I'd imagine the 189K is the high/high for ROH. Where as their mid-card talent is probably in the 50-75K.

It's a moot point now w/ no contracts, but the numbers are useful for gauging what ROH could have offered to keep someone like Rush or Brody. AEW creating competition is driving up prices for talent. Steen is great, but no way he gets 2 mil if AEW doesn't exist. The 189k also puts the 1 mil for Marty in perspective. Agree that the 189k must have been for someone like Cody, Bucks, or Cole. Suddenly a guy less over/important than them is getting 5x that from ROH. Crazy. Getting out of contracts might be the right call for the current wrestling landscape. AEW and WWE are always going to be more attractive as a platform/opportunity than ROH and ROH would have to make up for that by paying more in an already inflated market. It won't be ideal when talents are getting scooped up just as they're getting over in ROH, but ROH lived with that for its first 10 years and thrived. Plus, if it gets Delirious to wrap up storylines sooner, that's a win.....

[Montana]

Plus ROH talent can take other bookings; and probably get some cut of the merch sales. 189K is higher than the base NXT salary. Believe that can be sub-100K for those in training; those out of ROH were like 100-125K. Main Roster is like 250K and up. Like 5-10 wrestlers are plus 1M.

I think AEW has a wide range of contract salaries; their top guys are well over 1M (Jericho, Mox, the EVP's... and i'm sure Punk, Danielson, and Adam Cole are well paid. However i imagine guys like MJF, Darby, Orange, Sammy, Jungle Boy are probably getting around 100-300K. I assume they all would want a noticeable pay raise.

I'd imagine the 189K is the high/high for ROH. Where as their mid-card talent is probably in the 50-75K.

It's a moot point now w/ no contracts, but the numbers are useful for gauging what ROH could have offered to keep someone like Rush or Brody. AEW creating competition is driving up prices for talent. Steen is great, but no way he gets 2 mil if AEW doesn't exist. The 189k also puts the 1 mil for Marty in perspective. Agree that the 189k must have been for someone like Cody, Bucks, or Cole. Suddenly a guy less over/important than them is getting 5x that from ROH. Crazy. Getting out of contracts might be the right call for the current wrestling landscape. AEW and WWE are always going to be more attractive as a platform/opportunity than ROH and ROH would have to make up for that by paying more in an already inflated market. It won't be ideal when talents are getting scooped up just as they're getting over in ROH, but ROH lived with that for its first 10 years and thrived. Plus, if it gets Delirious to wrap up storylines sooner, that's a win.....

My guess is the 189K was either Marty or Taven. Believe both were said to get very large deals/largest in history. Assume Briscoes & Lethal also were getting paid well. Assume ROH offered their biggest/best contracts to Cody/Bucks; but no way they could compete with 1M+ deals. Your right, very unlikely Steen gets 2M without the competition. The problem is if AEW goes out of business in 3-5 years. As a result of WWE & AEW fighting; it hurts several smaller promotions. Less companies to work. There's another 150+ wrestlers looking for work; and WWE basically isn't look at the typical Indy wrestler anymore.

I agree a change in their contracting strategy needed to change. Not sure i agree with releasing everyone. At this point ; ROH is directly competing with Impact & MLW for talent. ROH and Impact were on a similar playing field; and valued different things. ROH wanted the hottest indy names; and Impact wants ex-wwe talent (not a knock) . MLW wants a few key wrestlers to build around (Fatu/Hammerstone/ Lawlor).... I assume ROH will get to something closer to MLW in the future.

Ideally they would have done some cost cutting measure in 2021.. and even late 2020. Think EVERYONE was thinking/hoping we'd be past the COVID thing by now. At least ROH was kind enough to give ample time to the roster; and not just kick out the door.

Interesting enough; Impact was a company that seemingly increased their cost in 2020/21 with signing. Impact hasn't been running many shows either. Which probably also points back to Impact's parent company can absorb the losses; better than Sinclair with their recent issues.

[Chrisvegas27]

Gresham defending the roh title at impact hard to kill

[kovs27]

Gresham defending the roh title at impact hard to kill

He's defending against Chris Sabin and I could be wrong but I think Sabin is still owed a shot from a couple years ago.

[IanRiccaboni]

Gresham defending the roh title at impact hard to kill

He's defending against Chris Sabin and I could be wrong but I think Sabin is still owed a shot from a couple years ago.

Good memory! This is accurate!

[Shanahan]

Gresham defending the roh title at impact hard to kill

He's defending against Chris Sabin and I could be wrong but I think Sabin is still owed a shot from a couple years ago.

Good memory! This is accurate!

So this hopefully means Gresham vs Haskins soon!

[McXal]

The CB vs Delirious Pure Rules Match that has just posted on YouTube is REALLY good. Long-time followers of my reviews will know that I am historically in no way a fan of Burger. Therefore I’m not being remotely biased when I say I felt like it was his best ROH singles match. By far.

(And I am VERY down for another Gresham/Haskins match in 2022. Maybe Wrestle Carnival could make it happen…)

[AnHonorableMention]

As much as I've criticized Hunter's booking, the Delirious mask removal and handing it to burger had me in tears. Burger is a great guy and he tries very hard. He's also a major student of the game. Very much enjoyed this match even with the watery eyes.

[McXal]

I love Delirious, the wrestler. He’s always been SO under-rated. I’ll sit and critique his skill as a booker/head of creative all day long - but I don’t think ability as a wrestler could ever be questioned.

First it was his whacky character which caused people to overlook how good he is/was - and in the last decade the (fair) criticism of Delirious, the booker, has bled into people forgetting he is/was so incredibly fun in the ring.

Even since becoming booker, the majority of his sporadic appearances as a bare-footed ‘special attraction’ have been good. I’ve also really loved how they’ve presented him since the pandemic - the slightly ominous, brooding interviews with subtitles. It has breathed new life into the character. If that match was his in-ring swan-song then it was a lovely way to bow out.

[monster mafia]

Keep this "story" until the return please

https://twitter.com/TheJonGresham/statu ... WaaMw&s=19

[Big Red Machine]

I love Delirious, the wrestler. He’s always been SO under-rated. I’ll sit and critique his skill as a booker/head of creative all day long - but I don’t think ability as a wrestler could ever be questioned.

First it was his whacky character which caused people to overlook how good he is/was - and in the last decade the (fair) criticism of Delirious, the booker, has bled into people forgetting he is/was so incredibly fun in the ring.

Even since becoming booker, the majority of his sporadic appearances as a bare-footed ‘special attraction’ have been good. I’ve also really loved how they’ve presented him since the pandemic - the slightly ominous, brooding interviews with subtitles. It has breathed new life into the character. If that match was his in-ring swan-song then it was a lovely way to bow out.

Agreed.

[AnHonorableMention]

I love Delirious, the wrestler. He’s always been SO under-rated. I’ll sit and critique his skill as a booker/head of creative all day long - but I don’t think ability as a wrestler could ever be questioned.

First it was his whacky character which caused people to overlook how good he is/was - and in the last decade the (fair) criticism of Delirious, the booker, has bled into people forgetting he is/was so incredibly fun in the ring.

Even since becoming booker, the majority of his sporadic appearances as a bare-footed ‘special attraction’ have been good. I’ve also really loved how they’ve presented him since the pandemic - the slightly ominous, brooding interviews with subtitles. It has breathed new life into the character. If that match was his in-ring swan-song then it was a lovely way to bow out.

His best wrestling was as a heel, the babyface character has been flat and repetitive for a long time. If we're simply looking at the wrestling moves and psychology when crowds were there it was fine. The gimmick has long needed a reboot, IMO. Be it a return to red poison or turning and being the silent and violent gimp Delirious. Either or is preferable to the status quo.

[EvanKnight]

I think there are a lot of parallels between him as a booker and him as a wrestler. I think he is underappreciated as a wrestler, and in a lot of ways as a booker as well. The booking has been technically proficient, which a lot of people overlook in the same way they do a consistently above average in ring wrestler who can have good matches with a variety of styles, but much in the same way that the “babyface character has been flat and repetitive”, so has much of the ROH booking. There really hasn’t been a strong story told in…I don’t even know how long… The story of the dual champs is honestly more interesting than anything that’s been done by design.

Personally, I hope he is a part of the booking after the reboot, but a head of creative, or creative team, is desperately needed.

ROH needs to get out of their own bubble (metaphorically not COVID speaking).

[DougN]

I don't see how putting the belt on Taven at the biggest show of all time, running the Enzo angle, and putting the belt on PCO is being technically proficient. I'm not trying to pile on to Delirious. He's not Russo or even close to that level of horridness. But he also made a lot of key falters in the aftermath of AEW.

[Montana]

A few random thoughts...

Delirious put the title in 2019 the most hated (Taven) and most-over wrestler (PCO). I get that people didn't like this decisions; but it's not like they were completely out of left field. They needed to make new stars; and i think Taven absolutely should have been one. Winning it at MSG; i go back and forth on; but i think given the situation; you pull the trigger. I don't think things would have been dramatically different if Marty won; and Enzo didn't show up. Think the vocal crowd already made up their mind; and were jumping over to AEW, because it's much easier to watch/follow. I wasn't a fan of PCO winning; but at least they righted the ship shortly after. THey could have put the belts on guys like Jeff Cobb/ Marty ; and they could have just left after. Think Rush and Bandido were the right calls given the time. All in all; i don't think delirious was bad; but i think they need more people pitching some ideas for creative.


Sounds like Week by Week is done for now. I was hoping ROH would at least continue that YT show; and/or maybe revamp it while they prepare for a relaunch. Hope ROH has a plan to getting the word out about the relaunch.

ROH store has a 40% off sale. I know i scuffed at the collector series DVDs; but i picked them up anyways. Wanted the Pure DVD and It was free shipping over 50$ too. Was bummed the Adam Cole DVD sold out so soon. I checked the store on the 25th the sale didnt go live; checked on the 26th it still wasn't live. Think it went live the evening of the 26th; and already sold out before i noticed on the 27th. Oh well.

Gresham has been defending the belt everywhere. He's probably had more defenses in 30 days; than probably all of ROH in 2021.