Random ROH Thoughts Thread

[BurningHammer]

I really didn't think posting memes of a careless and inconsequential show would be so controversial, though I guess that's the deal when referencing VOW (who I'm not generally high on myself). The format is bad and the show looks bad because of it. The wrestlers and the fans deserve better. Gotta bury it.

I don't often disagree with you Wilson but I think your way off here, especially if you take the voting process seriously,

I just don't see how a card like this is in anyway a bad card.

Dragon Lee vs Cobb

Briscoes vs S.O.S

Gresham vs Haskins (Say, Two out of Three Falls, Pure Rules)

Williams vs Flip (Say, Last Man Standing)

RUSH and Taven's Partners both are guys that can really produce

VE vs The Three Best Of That list

There are plenty of cards before this one that I would say short changed me this one isn't it. It has a mixture of fresh match ups with call backs and continuations of story lines. All the while actually trying to get the fan base to interact with the promotion. There are things that ROH should be bashed and herranged for but this isn't it, especially with the match ups that are being delivered and possibly are.

[Wilson]

I really thought this "choose the card" format would rankle more people than it has, but maybe I have more specific wrestling nerd sensibilities than I realized. The show have six matches that could be read as inconsequential because either one party doesn't know their opponent(s) or both parties don't know what kind of match they're in. And then you have two championship matches that basically nullify the importance of championship contention. Plus there's the no build to half of these matches whatsoever, and no gimmick build to the matches with a stipulations choice. There's also the meta layer where formats like this are meant to heighten to the spontaneity of a show, but actually strips away the potential for sudden storyline shifts because most matches don't even have the opponents set.

This is WWE gimmick B-PPV level of booking matches for the sake of matches while hollowing out the importance of championships and match layouts. Even compared to house show fares, this feels subpar, like I'm being told that these matches don't matter. And we're in the precious few weeks leading to Final Battle.

[AnHonorableMention]

This year the company has earned the mocking. If you rest on your laurels and expect fans to come out you have to reward them. ROH is stuck in neutral with booking. Does not matter the card.

[BurningHammer]

I really thought this "choose the card" format would rankle more people than it has, but maybe I have more specific wrestling nerd sensibilities than I realized. The show have six matches that could be read as inconsequential because either one party doesn't know their opponent(s) or both parties don't know what kind of match they're in. And then you have two championship matches that basically nullify the importance of championship contention. Plus there's the no build to half of these matches whatsoever, and no gimmick build to the matches with a stipulations choice. There's also the meta layer where formats like this are meant to heighten to the spontaneity of a show, but actually strips away the potential for sudden storyline shifts because most matches don't even have the opponents set.

This is WWE gimmick B-PPV level of booking matches for the sake of matches while hollowing out the importance of championships and match layouts. Even compared to house show fares, this feels subpar, like I'm being told that these matches don't matter. And we're in the precious few weeks leading to Final Battle.

I understand where your coming from especially regarding the 3 Tag Team championships, but I do feel the Tag Team championship match is certainly a way to bring a team to prominence especially if the match allows and it gets over it was worth it while it could sow the seed for later appearances. It wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of these matches lead to having meaning at SOTF and Final Battle especially if wins and losses are mattering which they seem to be for the most part. You’ve also got one match in particular that needs a new stipulation to drive it forward which I see no problem with. I do think though that the idea of this event say should have been used instead of Glory By Honor as so many match ups fit well after what happened at DBD.

I actually think in many ways those not knowing there partners adds to the drama of it all, it adds different Psychology not only to the match itself but also the team dynamics if played out right and with the right people. I think the fact I am getting matches that I know I will enjoy is maybe stopping me from having a clear mind when it comes to this. If ROH has been giving me these match ups, feuds and styles for a long time I might be more inclined to complain about it all.

I just hope that these type of matches are used to create a foundation to help cards out to build on story lines etc. With added dimension of more meaning and emphasis behind them for what’s to come next year.

[BurningHammer]

Just as interesting note RUSH posted a picture with Konnan and Dorian Pena. So either RUSH really doesn’t give a dam about ROH’s relationship with CMLL and is just doing his own thing. His contract really is one year so he will leaving and PCO is getting the title, allowing him to work AAA (though I can’t see ROH stopping him from doing that anyway) or ROH has given up on the new Japan, CMLL trifecta and is positioning itself with AAA which is a whole another thing, but would be awesome considering the guys on the roster.

That’s a whole lot of takes and possibilities right there.

[AlexROH]

No matter what Meltzer says, Rush's contract with ROH runs until January 2021.

Rush is a free agent in México, so that's why he wants to work some AAA, but he has also explained that he isn't gonna sign a contract in México because he wants to live some time there as a free agent.

For ROH, Rush is more important than CMLL. And if CMLL is angry, I'm pretty sure njpw wont care about it.

Also, VOW mocking ROH is something they always do, just like they do with every company they dont like because in social media is easier to get "popular" shitting on things to "look cool". They have some great content, but really lost me with their attitude overall.

[BurningHammer]

No matter what Meltzer says, Rush's contract with ROH runs until January 2021.

Rush is a free agent in México, so that's why he wants to work some AAA, but he has also explained that he isn't gonna sign a contract in México because he wants to live some time there as a free agent.

For ROH, Rush is more important than CMLL. And if CMLL is angry, I'm pretty sure njpw wont care about it.

Also, VOW mocking ROH is something they always do, just like they do with every company they dont like because in social media is easier to get "popular" shitting on things to "look cool". They have some great content, but really lost me with their attitude overall.

It all seems centered around finally doing RUSH vs La Parka, Mask vs Hair, which I know has been talked about for ages but could never be done because of thing or another, but if RUSH is independent only in Mexico and ROH has just said what happens in Mexico stays in Mexico it's all sounds good to me. Plus if he wants to work other guys down and it doesn't comprimise anything that's great especially if the ROH title gets defended. I could see the ROH title being left behind on those AAA days though.

[famicommander]

The Six Man titles have been around over 3 years now and I still don't have my Blue World Order title reign.

Is there a single person here who would object to Villain Enterprises vs the Blue World Order?

An ECW guy has the AEW World Title and 2 ECW guys are in the tag title match at Bound For Glory tonight. Why not Stevie Richards, who is in better shape than any ECW alum?

[Chrisvegas27]

Njpw just launched their own brand of a full time stay in the united states I will say if roh doesn't do anything big next year I don't think it will survive by beyond or sinclair will sale it whichever comes first

[ICHIFUJI]

We still memorize DGUSA.
NJPWUSA is not the first.

[monster mafia]

Shit just got real for roh.

[BurningHammer]

Njpw just launched their own brand of a full time stay in the united states I will say if roh doesn't do anything big next year I don't think it will survive by beyond or sinclair will sale it whichever comes first

I think this is probably where the likes of Dragon Lee, Cobb, maybe Brody, Bandido too will go, and split that between the Japan tours for that select talent. Considering the amount of dates they are running in Japan I can't see the bigger New Japan stars coming over that often especially when you considering their ages, so anyone expecting Tanahashi being the main guy, people may have to re-adjust what they will get. The LA dojo will obviously be very important to them in developing stars for this side of New Japan. I think New Japan have a much stronger chance of developing in the American market compared to Dragon Gate just from the infrastructure it has behind it and it's link to American talent.

Obviously this is New Japan trying to get in front of WWE with its idea of NXT Japan, which like the NXT UK is being seen as a very bad idea, and personally overall I think it's mistake for New Japan to be doing this also. It has already reduced the special nature of it's self touring so much quickly and it will only compound it. I do find it more funny that people don't see this impacting the whole market and only ROH, New Japan in the end is going to run into touring at the same time as an AEW show, an WWE show, an ROH show, an Impact show, an MLW show, an NWA show. If people have the chance to watch anyone it's likely going to be a toss up between AEW, WWE or New Japan everyone else is going to fighting for scraps in all honesty.

With it's regards to ROH, we have already seen how this will affect it, New Japan has run shows just after or close too as well at the same time, although in different areas of the country ROH still drew a decent enough number. I would hope that the relationship isn't so bad that they can still work their tour dates around each other and find space so it doesn't hamper so much. It will likely mean ROH has to tour less or look at different building set ups (which they are doing already) but if they can handle running on 500-1000 (max for now) fans per show throughout the year, change ticket pricing too a point, but still deliver the contracts that they are and Sinclair are happy with it, It will mean nothing as Sinclair is big enough to take more than the small financial hit ROH may provide considering it's content value. If Sinclair ever got serious about wrestling financially and allowed ROH to bring the backroom staff it needs it would be able to match anyone. Even now at it's worse ROH is still getting a basic number that is workable which is important. Overall Does it hamper ROH's potential for growth yes, does it stop it probably not as long as ROH is clever with it's talent and who it picks up from now on. The UK market or European markets as a whole will likely become more important as ROH wont hamper their home dates and in the end will actually help keep those area's alive while every others take talent away and try and crumble it away.

[monster mafia]

Interesting words from meltzer about this njpw mover

https://twitter.com/TrevorDame/status/1 ... 17280?s=19

[Chrisvegas27]

Come to think about it I could see New japan buying roh and turn into new japan of america so they could find a state to have weekly episodic t.v.

[monster mafia]

i dont wanna be pessimistic, just think about the future

-maybe roh and njpw can still be partners but not so close like before
-maybe we can see other companies more affected by this than roh: mlw, nxt, aew
- this can lead roh to take a step up and create a new direction for the company
- i dont know if this is the best direction for a company like njpw, but they have all the money despite they dont have some sort of tv deal
- njpw its not gonna be an atraction anymore with special shows in the usa, is another company based in the usa with all the competition
- what if roh look for some new partner, maybe regain thaht relationship ith dragon gate like old times

idk lts wait and see

Ps: so all in and msg show lead to all this?...who was going to imagine it, damn.

[Lynx]

I don't think that MSG show is responsible for this. The way whole thing was presented it was obvious that they have been working on this for couple of years already so it would have happened regardless.

[monster mafia]

the elite and njpw took advantage on roh and after some time they dump him.

[BurningHammer]

i dont wanna be pessimistic, just think about the future

-maybe roh and njpw can still be partners but not so close like before
-maybe we can see other companies more affected by this than roh: mlw, nxt, aew
- this can lead roh to take a step up and create a new direction for the company
- i dont know if this is the best direction for a company like njpw, but they have all the money despite they dont have some sort of tv deal
- njpw its not gonna be an atraction anymore with special shows in the usa, is another company based in the usa with all the competition
- what if roh look for some new partner, maybe regain thaht relationship ith dragon gate like old times

idk lts wait and see

Ps: so all in and msg show lead to all this?...who was going to imagine it, damn.

The MSG show has nothing to do with this, they’ve apparently been wanting to do this for a couple of years. Previously they just wanted a west coast base and tour there. I think with the fan appeal the joint ROH shows showed New Japan they’ve felt that they could make this much bigger. I would also think WWE’s attempt at creating NXT Japan (as rumoured has more to do with this)

What I don’t get is this obsession with partnerships, all ROH needs is the talent to create a wide variety of match ups, you can do that just by signing men and women. You just devaluing the product by running these joint shows etc. It’s a reason ROH is in this mess.

[monster mafia]

if roh can return to the good all days, and improve witthout a partner, fine...but even in that days they still co promote some shows ( noah, dragon gate, etc)

[AnHonorableMention]

If ifs and butts were candy and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. ROH will not get back to what it was until they completely fire every part of management, which will happen right after I win the lottery without buying a ticket.