ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
Big Red Machine
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

Wilson wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:27 am
Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 pm I just going to hope you're being sarcastic here. If it it wasn't a one-hit wonder then why has no one heard about him running another show? The cagematch.net tells me he has run several, but no one has paid any sort of attention to them, so I'm going to go ahead and say his Mania weekend show was a one-hit wonder. I don't doubt that he is a student of the industry or that his stock in the business is rising. I've liked the little of him that I've seen- especially on the mic- but his show was nothing special, and having a PWG match that Dave likes a lot means having a PWG match that Dave has seen. PWG is like like New Japan where, to determine an actual match rating from one of Dave's you often need to subtract a star. He lets PWG get away with so much sh*t that he would crap on anyone else for because "the crowd was into it" but you'd never hear him use that as an excuse for TNA or ECW or whoever. He's a f*cking mark. So are the rest of us, but the difference is that we all admit it.
Dave doesn’t really have great chops in critique. That doesn’t mean he is a valuable reporter on the industry, best doing week-to-week and macro reports. As preposterous as it is, he wears as many hats in the Observer as he did when the publication first started. His reviews have always felt more ‘zine than journalism, but I know why they the way they are. I’ve always interpreted Dave’s preference toward an excited crowd as a sort of reinforcing of the industry--the crowd driven to believe in stakes as the very import of wrestling. Often, I don’t agree with him, but I am not warm at all to the idea of calling him a mark.
I'm not disputing his importance as a journalist. I just think he applies egregious double standards and not extending those reasons that he gives promotions like PWG to give them a higher rating to every other company that has had hot crowds is quite unfair.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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Specific to PWG, he obviously likes them as a casual fan, as I do and probably a lot of others. I don’t think it’s unfair to view PWG events as blockbusters, they’ve at least earned as much.

More generally, his ratings are inessential; he has pretty much said so himself (at least about the concept in general). He puts values to place, time, and emotion. Everyone who reads his ratings as something that should be bent toward the canon of wrestling history are better off being blind to them.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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If anybody thinks EVOLVE is "hot" or has "buzz" they are straight up delusional. At least with ROH people are coming out to the shows, not that there is any comparison to be made between the two promotions due to ROH's obvious advantages, but EVOLVE sold its soul to become essentially a feeder promotion for WWE so that after years at being looked down on as an outcast, Gabe can finally land that WWE creative writer job and may actually start making some money for the first time in his life.

At the least EVOLVE doesn't label themselves as "punk rock" or "anti-establishment" like PROGRESS does. Their one in the same really.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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The Dragon Saga wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:13 pm If anybody thinks EVOLVE is "hot" or has "buzz" they are straight up delusional. At least with ROH people are coming out to the shows, not that there is any comparison to be made between the two promotions due to ROH's obvious advantages, but EVOLVE sold its soul to become essentially a feeder promotion for WWE so that after years at being looked down on as an outcast, Gabe can finally land that WWE creative writer job and may actually start making some money for the first time in his life.

At the least EVOLVE doesn't label themselves as "punk rock" or "anti-establishment" like PROGRESS does. Their one in the same really.
EVOLVE probably gets as much buzz as ROH, which is to say a handful of times during recent years. Other than making the product fresher, buzz isn't much more integral to the shape of any given promotion, as places like ROH still do quite well financially and EVOLVE can still tell interesting stories with one the best American rosters. It's pretty ridiculous that you mention EVOLVE selling its soul when ROH sold itself whole to an overweening local news television conglomerate. As being a feeder system, ROH has given more to WWE in the past twelve ten months more than any other company in recent history. Your other comments on Gabe are pretty gauche. He works really hard to make story-focused wrestling. He makes mistakes, but I don't see the room for a grudge in any of his shortcomings.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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EVOLVE gets nowhere near as much buzz as ROH because it doesn't get any buzz at all!

EVOLVE is an independent promotion that the WWE, who EVOLVE initially wanted to be the opposite of, partnered up with in-order to "nudge-nudge" specific talents on the independent scene in order to make sure they didn't sign contracts with the likes of Ring of Honor who can actually pay talents salaries in-order to be exclusive to their brand. The most buzz EVOVLE has had at any one point is when they signed to Flo Slam, you know, that thing that ROH turned down because they could probably see it would inevitably fail due to a lack of infastructure and has little to no following due to its multitude of broken promises to those who were actually stupid enough to sign up to a membership? Yeah, that Flo Slam, the one Gabe used to get a pay day but most likely give little to nothing back. Ring of Honor off one pay-per-view, even if that was the worst fucking pay-per-view ever and had Glacier main event against Shane Hagadorn would create more buzz than anything EVOLVE has or will ever do, solely because it has a far greater reach so that people actually know what is happening!

And you using ROH's sale to Sinclair as a comparison to EVOLVE literally going from, "well, we're not sports entertainment, those guys wish they were as talented as us, it's time for wrestlings evolution" to, "hey Paul, give us some cash and we'll make sure Ring of Honor doesn't sign up anybody you want", which in reality, hasn't been all that effective, but so long as Gabe gets to sit backstage at Takeover events and get shot in the background of the production area, I'm sure he's pretty happy with his decisions.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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Big Red Machine wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:05 am
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:29 pm
Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:12 pm
Because every time WWE needs a quote or an interview for an article or DVD about the indy days of Ambrose or Rollins or
Cesaro or Hero or Nigel or Bryan or whoever, they turn to Gabe. Not Ian, not Zandig, not Excalibur and Super Dragon, not even Prazak. They go to Gabe. EVOLVE isn't the only company working with WWE (I believe PROGRESS is as well- and in ways that are much more obvious on your TV screen) but it's Gabe whose promotion is seen as the WWE pipeline, with Gabe getting the Heyman-esque recognition for being the oe lyfind these guys who have the talent to succeed in WWE.
Man, the guys making the most waves are Cole, Fish, and O'Reilly. Gabe didn't have jack shit to do with their careers. Dijak and Rush? ROH guys. If Gabe getting his mug on WWE interviews is succeeding, he's on borrowed time. Galloway got just as much publicity for TNA as he did for Evolve. Hero travelled the world 30 times over besides his time in Evolve to get back in the WWE (does anyone even remember Gabe wanted nothing to do with Hero prior to 2006?). Riddle is all over the fucking place, so is he really an Evolve product? I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Gabe succeeding wildly, brother.
Based on your analysis it should mean he is succeeding even more than mine. If he had nothing to do with these guys (and I don't think that's quite fair to say for Fish and O'Reilly) and yet WWE is still putting him in a spot to receive credit for them, then what could be more Heyman-esque than that?
And yes, Riddle is an EVOLVE product. That is the promotion his name is most connected to. As for Galloway and TNA, I don't remember any buzz for him there at all, because no one who wasn't the Hardys, Ethan, or Lashley got any buzz for TNA. I watched every episode of Impact he was on and have no memory of him doing anything other than showing up for their tacky attempt to capitalize off of everyone hating heel authority figures in WWE, and whatever that last angle was that he was in against Ethan that got blown off on TV when they should have saved it for BFG but didn't because they thought that everyone wanted to see Ethan vs. Lashley yet again and watch Drew challenge a pointlessly-heel Damien Sandow for the TNA Stupid Rules Championship or whatever it was that they called it.
We will just have to agree to disagree about Gabe and Evolve. I gleefully snicker though that you were forced to recollect TNA matches and storylines that you wasted hours of your life on and will never get back.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

The Dragon Saga wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:03 pm EVOLVE gets nowhere near as much buzz as ROH because it doesn't get any buzz at all!

EVOLVE is an independent promotion that the WWE, who EVOLVE initially wanted to be the opposite of, partnered up with in-order to "nudge-nudge" specific talents on the independent scene in order to make sure they didn't sign contracts with the likes of Ring of Honor who can actually pay talents salaries in-order to be exclusive to their brand. The most buzz EVOVLE has had at any one point is when they signed to Flo Slam, you know, that thing that ROH turned down because they could probably see it would inevitably fail due to a lack of infastructure and has little to no following due to its multitude of broken promises to those who were actually stupid enough to sign up to a membership? Yeah, that Flo Slam, the one Gabe used to get a pay day but most likely give little to nothing back. Ring of Honor off one pay-per-view, even if that was the worst fucking pay-per-view ever and had Glacier main event against Shane Hagadorn would create more buzz than anything EVOLVE has or will ever do, solely because it has a far greater reach so that people actually know what is happening!

And you using ROH's sale to Sinclair as a comparison to EVOLVE literally going from, "well, we're not sports entertainment, those guys wish they were as talented as us, it's time for wrestlings evolution" to, "hey Paul, give us some cash and we'll make sure Ring of Honor doesn't sign up anybody you want", which in reality, hasn't been all that effective, but so long as Gabe gets to sit backstage at Takeover events and get shot in the background of the production area, I'm sure he's pretty happy with his decisions.
I actually agree with this. It's not that far from Heyman back in the day claiming ECW to be the alternative in wrestling, but was more than happy to take checks from Vince on the side. I think more than anything that is something I take legitimate issue with. Don't paint yourself as something you're not, but you are complete ass kisser behind closed doors.

A few years back, before the Evolve/WWE relationship, I remember Gabe writing about his experience going to a WWE show in Philadelphia. He ripped the product for the camera posturing, among other things, that the wrestlers do to make it disconnected to true fans. It was a really good column by Gabe. Jericho just trashed Gabe for it.

I get what TDS is saying. Gabe has sold out.
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Wilson
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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The Dragon Saga wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:03 pm EVOLVE gets nowhere near as much buzz as ROH because it doesn't get any buzz at all!

EVOLVE is an independent promotion that the WWE, who EVOLVE initially wanted to be the opposite of, partnered up with in-order to "nudge-nudge" specific talents on the independent scene in order to make sure they didn't sign contracts with the likes of Ring of Honor who can actually pay talents salaries in-order to be exclusive to their brand. The most buzz EVOVLE has had at any one point is when they signed to Flo Slam, you know, that thing that ROH turned down because they could probably see it would inevitably fail due to a lack of infastructure and has little to no following due to its multitude of broken promises to those who were actually stupid enough to sign up to a membership? Yeah, that Flo Slam, the one Gabe used to get a pay day but most likely give little to nothing back. Ring of Honor off one pay-per-view, even if that was the worst fucking pay-per-view ever and had Glacier main event against Shane Hagadorn would create more buzz than anything EVOLVE has or will ever do, solely because it has a far greater reach so that people actually know what is happening!

And you using ROH's sale to Sinclair as a comparison to EVOLVE literally going from, "well, we're not sports entertainment, those guys wish they were as talented as us, it's time for wrestlings evolution" to, "hey Paul, give us some cash and we'll make sure Ring of Honor doesn't sign up anybody you want", which in reality, hasn't been all that effective, but so long as Gabe gets to sit backstage at Takeover events and get shot in the background of the production area, I'm sure he's pretty happy with his decisions.
Buzz has always meant people actually voicing themselves on platforms other than wrestling venues. On the internet, there's much less being written about ROH, which has seen declension for years. You can eve take a look at view counts on this very forum to see that the IWC isn't as attuned to what's happening as was a few years ago. Of course, the IWC is not some monolithic community, not even for a product like ROH. I usually only catch snippets of impressions when either EVOLVE or ROH are running that weekend, and not much at other times--unless perhaps ROH gets shone in less than flattering light, which has been happening less than infrequent this year. On the whole, American wrestling has been getting less buzz compared to Japanese and European promotions, so the small community that makes up the online conversation has just shifted.

EVOLVE does get some moments of relevance. People care about Riddle, Lee, and Sabre. Their subscription package is a better offering than ROH's by some margin--and if we can speak about scams, we won't even breath a murmur about ROH's Ringside whatever?--even if I am usually not willing to let it roll over from month to month.

I don't understand Gabe's selling out. He's always tried to be a form of WWE or Heyman-lite. He was just choosy about which aspects of RAW or Smackdown he wanted to pinch from (like gimmick matches, comedy sketches, sexist angles, overreliance on promos, blood blood blood, invocations of the Smackdown Six), which was evident from the very beginning. Him wanting to be aligned with a brand/promotion like NXT is practically among the most Gabe things he could have done. I just see no contradictions there. WWN needed to stay alive, and made a deal with a larger company. ROH needed to stay alive, and fortified themselves with a larger company. Not that wild of a comparison.

And that's probably it from me on this--head's up.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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I always find funny the "buzz" thing. I mean, the IWC, or even the Twitter Wrestling Commumity is little. They (maybe we) aren't an important thing. Most of them even don't go to the shows. They arent representaive of the real buzz. Everybody, nowadays, love hating on ROH without watching the TV/VOD/PPV bc, you know, that's cool now. Before you were cool if you shit on TNA o WWE when you didn't watch it or werent a fan of the product and now the same thing happend with ROH. "Didn't know ROH was having a PPV today" and all this type of silly stuff isn't a "negative buzz" or however you wanna call it. On the other side of the table, everybody talks great about EVOLVE, bc, again, it's cool! You call this buzz?

I mean, again, this isn't representstive. You can read whatever you want on the internet. But reallity is, ROH has a lot of buzz this year and they are having shows worldwide and breaking a lot of records (tickets sale, VODs and PPVs), that's what I call buzz. More and more people want to see what they are doing. On the other hand, you have EVOLVE, a promotion that couldnt draw more than 200(?) people in an arena. They havent grow in years (WM Week doesnt count, bc it's WM and bc WWE allows them to run shows in the same Street of the Axess), how in the hell can you have buzz and then, your audience doesnt grow? Again, I like and watch EVOLVE, but it is a failure. Just see how fast ROH grow in 02-06 and compare it with EVOLVE. But hey, lot of people say good things about them on Twitter and forums (but everybody just watch them on XWT).
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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AlexROH wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:38 am I always find funny the "buzz" thing. I mean, the IWC, or even the Twitter Wrestling Commumity is little. They (maybe we) aren't an important thing. Most of them even don't go to the shows. They arent representaive of the real buzz. Everybody, nowadays, love hating on ROH without watching the TV/VOD/PPV bc, you know, that's cool now. Before you were cool if you shit on TNA o WWE when you didn't watch it or werent a fan of the product and now the same thing happend with ROH. "Didn't know ROH was having a PPV today" and all this type of silly stuff isn't a "negative buzz" or however you wanna call it. On the other side of the table, everybody talks great about EVOLVE, bc, again, it's cool! You call this buzz?

I mean, again, this isn't representstive. You can read whatever you want on the internet. But reallity is, ROH has a lot of buzz this year and they are having shows worldwide and breaking a lot of records (tickets sale, VODs and PPVs), that's what I call buzz. More and more people want to see what they are doing. On the other hand, you have EVOLVE, a promotion that couldnt draw more than 200(?) people in an arena. They havent grow in years (WM Week doesnt count, bc it's WM and bc WWE allows them to run shows in the same Street of the Axess), how in the hell can you have buzz and then, your audience doesnt grow? Again, I like and watch EVOLVE, but it is a failure. Just see how fast ROH grow in 02-06 and compare it with EVOLVE. But hey, lot of people say good things about them on Twitter and forums (but everybody just watch them on XWT).
Agreed on the buzz argument. It’s a weird, unfalsifiable talking point used to replace more meaningful markers of a promotion’s health. I followed plenty of years when of ROH when it was on the waning years of its popularity, never really inhibiting my enjoyment of it when the product sparked up. I think a lot of the fans who have kept ROH in their periphery have built cynicism in response to the company’s direction, which is well earned.

I guess I have a softer spot for EVOLVE/WWN than others, but I like that it’s a scrappy, and at times very rocky, wrestling promotion. I wouldn’t call the company a failure, even if there have been more down than ups. There still aren't many bookers similarly as bold as Gabe.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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AlexROH wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:38 am I always find funny the "buzz" thing. I mean, the IWC, or even the Twitter Wrestling Commumity is little. They (maybe we) aren't an important thing. Most of them even don't go to the shows. They arent representaive of the real buzz. Everybody, nowadays, love hating on ROH without watching the TV/VOD/PPV bc, you know, that's cool now. Before you were cool if you shit on TNA o WWE when you didn't watch it or werent a fan of the product and now the same thing happend with ROH. "Didn't know ROH was having a PPV today" and all this type of silly stuff isn't a "negative buzz" or however you wanna call it. On the other side of the table, everybody talks great about EVOLVE, bc, again, it's cool! You call this buzz?

I mean, again, this isn't representstive. You can read whatever you want on the internet. But reallity is, ROH has a lot of buzz this year and they are having shows worldwide and breaking a lot of records (tickets sale, VODs and PPVs), that's what I call buzz. More and more people want to see what they are doing. On the other hand, you have EVOLVE, a promotion that couldnt draw more than 200(?) people in an arena. They havent grow in years (WM Week doesnt count, bc it's WM and bc WWE allows them to run shows in the same Street of the Axess), how in the hell can you have buzz and then, your audience doesnt grow? Again, I like and watch EVOLVE, but it is a failure. Just see how fast ROH grow in 02-06 and compare it with EVOLVE. But hey, lot of people say good things about them on Twitter and forums (but everybody just watch them on XWT).
I don't think ROH has had buzz (which I would define as a general increase in the number of people talking about it) that wasn't related to New Japan or someone leaving since the Hardys-Bucks match. I'm not saying EVOLVE has had much, either (Lee and Riddle both have buzz, and both Drew's heel turn and the EC III debut last year got buzz), but the buzz surrounding ROH is nothing close to what it has been in the past. No one is going around saying "you've got to check this out!" about ROH the way they do about PROGRESS or RevPro or New Japan or PWG or whoever. esaid, I've seen more people lately pushing EVOLVE than ROH, because I really haven't seen anyone pushing ROH.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by maxx_powerz »

Is AAW the most buzzworthy American Indy right now like it seems or am I hanging out in weird circles?
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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You Evolve pukes are neglecting to mention the over extended reign of Thatcher as a high point of Gabe's booking.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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AAW has too much of a focus on Sami Callihan and his scrub friends to really make it truly buzzworthy
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by famicommander »

I am not up on AAW at the moment but Sami is great on Lucha Underground.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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King of Indy Style wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:33 pm AAW has too much of a focus on Sami Callihan and his scrub friends to really make it truly buzzworthy
I think Sami has been cutting some amazing promos and am eagerly anticipating both whatever the blow-off to his thing against Luchadors is as well as seeing who can take the title from him.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:14 pm You Evolve pukes are neglecting to mention the over extended reign of Thatcher as a high point of Gabe's booking.
1. People are making this out like it's the worst thing ever, and it really wasn't that bad. Yeah, the fans didn't want to see him as champion, but he was still putting on great matches so all the fans turning on him did was made the pop bigger when he finally lost the belt. It's not like with, say, Jinder Mahal, where no one wanted him to be champion and his matches were crap.

2. It probably would have been about two months shorter if Thatcher hadn't missed two months of shows due to injury towards the end of it. That's not Gabe's fault
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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maxx_powerz wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:20 pm Is AAW the most buzzworthy American Indy right now like it seems or am I hanging out in weird circles?
Seems like it to me.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:26 am
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:14 pm You Evolve pukes are neglecting to mention the over extended reign of Thatcher as a high point of Gabe's booking.
1. People are making this out like it's the worst thing ever, and it really wasn't that bad. Yeah, the fans didn't want to see him as champion, but he was still putting on great matches so all the fans turning on him did was made the pop bigger when he finally lost the belt. It's not like with, say, Jinder Mahal, where no one wanted him to be champion and his matches were crap.

2. It probably would have been about two months shorter if Thatcher hadn't missed two months of shows due to injury towards the end of it. That's not Gabe's fault
Man, my comments are mostly meant in sarcasm. Yeah I'm not an Evolve guy, but I am not going to begrudge you or anyone else for supporting a product you enjoy.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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Wilson wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:49 pm
The Dragon Saga wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:03 pm EVOLVE gets nowhere near as much buzz as ROH because it doesn't get any buzz at all!

EVOLVE is an independent promotion that the WWE, who EVOLVE initially wanted to be the opposite of, partnered up with in-order to "nudge-nudge" specific talents on the independent scene in order to make sure they didn't sign contracts with the likes of Ring of Honor who can actually pay talents salaries in-order to be exclusive to their brand. The most buzz EVOVLE has had at any one point is when they signed to Flo Slam, you know, that thing that ROH turned down because they could probably see it would inevitably fail due to a lack of infastructure and has little to no following due to its multitude of broken promises to those who were actually stupid enough to sign up to a membership? Yeah, that Flo Slam, the one Gabe used to get a pay day but most likely give little to nothing back. Ring of Honor off one pay-per-view, even if that was the worst fucking pay-per-view ever and had Glacier main event against Shane Hagadorn would create more buzz than anything EVOLVE has or will ever do, solely because it has a far greater reach so that people actually know what is happening!

And you using ROH's sale to Sinclair as a comparison to EVOLVE literally going from, "well, we're not sports entertainment, those guys wish they were as talented as us, it's time for wrestlings evolution" to, "hey Paul, give us some cash and we'll make sure Ring of Honor doesn't sign up anybody you want", which in reality, hasn't been all that effective, but so long as Gabe gets to sit backstage at Takeover events and get shot in the background of the production area, I'm sure he's pretty happy with his decisions.
Buzz has always meant people actually voicing themselves on platforms other than wrestling venues. On the internet, there's much less being written about ROH, which has seen declension for years. You can eve take a look at view counts on this very forum to see that the IWC isn't as attuned to what's happening as was a few years ago. Of course, the IWC is not some monolithic community, not even for a product like ROH. I usually only catch snippets of impressions when either EVOLVE or ROH are running that weekend, and not much at other times--unless perhaps ROH gets shone in less than flattering light, which has been happening less than infrequent this year. On the whole, American wrestling has been getting less buzz compared to Japanese and European promotions, so the small community that makes up the online conversation has just shifted.

EVOLVE does get some moments of relevance. People care about Riddle, Lee, and Sabre. Their subscription package is a better offering than ROH's by some margin--and if we can speak about scams, we won't even breath a murmur about ROH's Ringside whatever?--even if I am usually not willing to let it roll over from month to month.

I don't understand Gabe's selling out. He's always tried to be a form of WWE or Heyman-lite. He was just choosy about which aspects of RAW or Smackdown he wanted to pinch from (like gimmick matches, comedy sketches, sexist angles, overreliance on promos, blood blood blood, invocations of the Smackdown Six), which was evident from the very beginning. Him wanting to be aligned with a brand/promotion like NXT is practically among the most Gabe things he could have done. I just see no contradictions there. WWN needed to stay alive, and made a deal with a larger company. ROH needed to stay alive, and fortified themselves with a larger company. Not that wild of a comparison.

And that's probably it from me on this--head's up.
I will respond to this in more detail tomorrow. However, to make a quick point, as someone who has been frequenting forums for years now, who posts on places like Wreddit, has an account on VoW and has an account on F4W's Board, if you seriously think that fucking EVOLVE - fucking EVOLVE - has more people talking about it than Ring of Honor, than I have no counter argument because you're very much seeing things through very rose tinted glasses, for whatever reason.

EVOLVE is nothing to the world of wrestling. It is a feeder promotion to WWE to keep guys out of ROH - specifically, ROH. If EVOLVE closed down tomorrow, I doubt many would even care because most of the time, barely anyone knows it's there top begin with.
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