ROH TV

[Montana]

This weeks episode has announced a few matches for Final Battle; and next week.

First up... Apparently Flip Gordon has returned and is the #1 contender to Jonathan Gresham for the Pure Title. Should be a good match, and i'm not too mad.... but they also announced Flip Gordon vs. Josh Woods next week. SHould be a really good match... but i have to think Flip Gordon wins. Kind of surprised ROH wouldn't book Flip vs. Dragon Lee. That would be amazing, plus the whole LIJ-VE feud that never ended.

Then Mark Briscoes tag partner is revealed; which is PCO... and they'll face the Tag champs at Final Battle. Should be another good match; but i'm a bit confused with Mark and PCO. Understand; there wasn't much time to build; and things are a bit in flux; but i would have hoped after 6 months off; the booking would have had better plans for some angles. Instead of just throwing it together. Last but not least It's Mark and PCO vs. Bouncers next week... so i think it's safe to say Mark and PCO go over. I imagine ROH did not want to wait until the last minute to release the matches for the PPV; but seemed odd they announced the PPV; and they have a match next week.

Last but not least.... Mike Bennett vs. Vincent; which was ANOTHER DQ. So for those keeping track; we've had DQ's in Jay vs. EC3, Bennett vs. Vincent, and Taven vs. Vincent in the recent tapings. Plus the time limit draws; coming down to the judges. ROH needs to watch this; and come up with more creative ways to build feuds. I get things are a different now with COVID; and i'm sure changes to the tapings were needed to be made; so i can give it a pass.... but this feels like the same ole booking; that is a bit stale. It could certainly be a lot worse; but these are some red flags; from the first non-pure tournament. It's not like Vincent can't eat a loss; for the return of Mike Bennett.... or Jay for EC3.

(Not to compare to AEW; but i wanna say i heard they used like 1 DQ on Dynamite in a year with 2 hours of TV... and ROH has done it multiple times in the last few weeks with 1 hour of TV and 2 matches on it)

[Lynx]

Could have easily moved Flip/Woods to this show and didn't do Bennett/Vincent at all since they had enough meat for a tag match at FB either way.

[BurningHammer]

Why wouldn’t want Mark go with PCO, he’s been a multiple holder in ROH, including the tag titles, he’s also a pretty insane individual willing to put his body on the line, he has qualities that Mark has. Also you also protect PCO as a wrestler as he should be nowhere near singles matches. I don’t think the match should be happening at all but I guessed PCO from the off and it makes sense if you are going that way.


The thing is I think that fact that you are pissed off with the DQ is actually a good thing, as it helps build someone like the Foundation and their stance of these things.

Taking the EC3 match into account I actually really liked that DQ as it made the ref look strong and a look into how ROH wants to treat matches. Although I certainly would have preferred a straight match. Not saying they don’t have to be careful but the DQ’s are fitting too the people involved. There needs to be cleaner finishes to help make these DQ’s standout. There can’t be any at Final Battle and there needs at most one screwy finish on that PPV.

[Montana]

from a story line perspective... PCO seems like a odd choice, because they've mainly feuded with their time in ROH; and just seemed kind of random. I assume the LIJ - VE feud is scrapped. I agree PCO may be best suited as a tag team in 2021.... but i think maybe Dan Hausen as a tag partner would be more fitting. I assume it's just a few matches with PCO and Mark. I'm not losing sleep over it; just kinda random. They could actually be a decent team together...two wild one's.

It wasn't quite so much this DQ in particular but just the volume in recent memory. They certainly serve a purpose; but i'm just a bit weary on the booking moving forward. Agreed Final Battle should mostly be clean... also set the tone for things in 2021.

[BurningHammer]

from a story line perspective... PCO seems like a odd choice, because they've mainly feuded with their time in ROH; and just seemed kind of random. I assume the LIJ - VE feud is scrapped. I agree PCO may be best suited as a tag team in 2021.... but i think maybe Dan Hausen as a tag partner would be more fitting. I assume it's just a few matches with PCO and Mark. I'm not losing sleep over it; just kinda random. They could actually be a decent team together...two wild one's.

It wasn't quite so much this DQ in particular but just the volume in recent memory. They certainly serve a purpose; but i'm just a bit weary on the booking moving forward. Agreed Final Battle should mostly be clean... also set the tone for things in 2021.

Yeah I can totally understand why you would wary, unfortunately a DQ finish is very a go for Delirious, it’s a lazy thing to do and that’s a big criticism on Delirious but hopefully it’s more down to circumstances of the talent involved than what will be the overall flow of booking going forward.

Just on Danhausen, it may well have been him but remember him, Gresham and two or three others were sent home because of the Collective situation just before they went into the Bubble. They said plans had to change quickly the results we are seeing now might be because of that.

[kovs27]

I just wanted to say thank you for talking about this in the spoilers section. I don't get to watch the latest episode until it airs on Fite and this was the least spoiled I've been this month.

[famicommander]

(Not to compare to AEW; but i wanna say i heard they used like 1 DQ on Dynamite in a year with 2 hours of TV... and ROH has done it multiple times in the last few weeks with 1 hour of TV and 2 matches on it)

To be fair, this is mostly because their refs just stand there and watch their wrestlers blatantly cheat.

[Wavelet Transform]

Yep, we're well past a reasonable DQ quota for the number of episodes they've aired since the return. The Briscoe/EC3 one was worse than this week's, but it's still lazy and unnecessary.

Not sure why they booked Flip-Woods for next week. Either Flip loses to a guy who lost to the guy he's facing at Final Battle or you undo all the good work they've done building Woods. A draw is pretty much a loss for Flip for the same reason. Appreciated them acknowledging Flip's world title shot from Free Enterprise, but odd to then put him in the pure title picture.

[BurningHammer]

(Not to compare to AEW; but i wanna say i heard they used like 1 DQ on Dynamite in a year with 2 hours of TV... and ROH has done it multiple times in the last few weeks with 1 hour of TV and 2 matches on it)

To be fair, this is mostly because their refs just stand there and watch their wrestlers blatantly cheat.

Exactly, how often do referees go ahh fuck it, I can''t do anything about it, it defeats the whole purpose of referee.

The DQ's in ROH before seemed like lazy booking to me because so much would just go on and be left un checked, we actually have matches where stuff is being dealt with. As long as it doesn't become the norm and cleaner finishes will need to adhered to these types of finishes we actually work in the end. Certainly not saying though you can't be more creative with finishes but let's just see where it all ends up.

[Montana]

I just wanted to say thank you for talking about this in the spoilers section. I don't get to watch the latest episode until it airs on Fite and this was the least spoiled I've been this month.

No problem... i think it airs in my market almost first; with it running on Friday night at midnight. I have to hold my tongue or use the spoilers page.

[cgstong]

Fightful Select is reporting that talent is being brought in this week to film Final Battle this Thursday. They will also be filming subsequent shows.

[BurningHammer]

Fightful Select is reporting that talent is being brought in this week to film Final Battle this Thursday. They will also be filming subsequent shows.

Interesting to see how a pretty taped PPV plays for ROH, think it’s the first time ROH has done that under the Sinclair era. I wonder if multiple endings will be taped. May also help if a match doesn’t really work the first time round, they can film it again and deliver something better.

It’s also good to see they are getting Final Battle in before the episode of TV that weekend, which I hope either plays off Final Battle or just adds to some background of new characters, or continuing to build other guys.

Hopefully with all the Mexican talent in for filming, they will be there for the TV episodes too.

[KL_]

Final Battle - first PPV after 'the coronavirus break'. After some nice ROH TV episodes it's a great time to make some big things and fireworks.
Therefore I wonder how much possible it is to see there.... Marty Scurll

Of course, his situation needs to be clear first but they don't have to tell us this until the PPV.

[Montana]

Well... can’t say im surprised, but can’t help but think how much better/logical would have this episode been... Had they NOT announce the Tag Titles matches and TV title match at the PPV in advance. Seriously ... they Should have done woods vs flip and the winner faces Dragon Lee at Final Battle!! Same with Mark/PCO vs Bouncers (even though Mark was owed a title shot).

My guess is they just didn’t want to wait until the last minute to reveal the card.

The other thing I didn’t like, was that they give Josh Woods a huge win over Jay Lethal, and follow up with a loss in a pure match to Flip Gordon?!? I’m sure considering that Josh woods pulled double duty... someone else maybe was supposed to take the L. If anything... they should have aired Josh vs flip first at it had ppv implications, THEN Josh Vs Lethal as it did not impact the ppv. Seems like common sense... how are they missing these details??

[cgstong]

Might be a spoiler so posting it in here:

Oshay Edwards posted the following: https://twitter.com/BigBadKaiju/status/ ... 0977795079

5 years ago they said I was too old for a major promotion take a look.

Deny me now.

They said I'd never be anything outside of GA.

Deny me now.

They said moving for ROH was career suicide & I wouldn't make it.

Deny me now.

Now that I've been in a ROH ring...

DENY. ME. NOW.

[BurningHammer]

Well... can’t say im surprised, but can’t help but think how much better/logical would have this episode been... Had they NOT announce the Tag Titles matches and TV title match at the PPV in advance. Seriously ... they Should have done woods vs flip and the winner faces Dragon Lee at Final Battle!! Same with Mark/PCO vs Bouncers (even though Mark was owed a title shot).

My guess is they just didn’t want to wait until the last minute to reveal the card.

The other thing I didn’t like, was that they give Josh Woods a huge win over Jay Lethal, and follow up with a loss in a pure match to Flip Gordon?!? I’m sure considering that Josh woods pulled double duty... someone else maybe was supposed to take the L. If anything... they should have aired Josh vs flip first at it had ppv implications, THEN Josh Vs Lethal as it did not impact the ppv. Seems like common sense... how are they missing these details??

You could look it at either that the Woods win over Lethal was that much of a freak win or that he was over confident in the match against Flip because of that win. It just depends how you look it at. Honestly I think there is more trust in Flip over Woods to make a PPV quality match, you also have a very heel/face dynamic in Flip vs Gresham, or I hope that's how ROH see's it and if Gresham wins, it makes fans happy and him keeping the belt gives credence to the Foundations modus operandi. It also might help give Flip a new dimension to him with fans as a wrestler. Woods needs a couple more wins and a bit more seasoning before he gets a title shot and hopefully win in the end. As long as Gresham retains the title I'm ok with the match with Flip.

[kovs27]

Well... can’t say im surprised, but can’t help but think how much better/logical would have this episode been... Had they NOT announce the Tag Titles matches and TV title match at the PPV in advance. Seriously ... they Should have done woods vs flip and the winner faces Dragon Lee at Final Battle!! Same with Mark/PCO vs Bouncers (even though Mark was owed a title shot).

My guess is they just didn’t want to wait until the last minute to reveal the card.

The other thing I didn’t like, was that they give Josh Woods a huge win over Jay Lethal, and follow up with a loss in a pure match to Flip Gordon?!? I’m sure considering that Josh woods pulled double duty... someone else maybe was supposed to take the L. If anything... they should have aired Josh vs flip first at it had ppv implications, THEN Josh Vs Lethal as it did not impact the ppv. Seems like common sense... how are they missing these details??

You could look it at either that the Woods win over Lethal was that much of a freak win or that he was over confident in the match against Flip because of that win. It just depends how you look it at. Honestly I think there is more trust in Flip over Woods to make a PPV quality match, you also have a very heel/face dynamic in Flip vs Gresham, or I hope that's how ROH see's it and if Gresham wins, it makes fans happy and him keeping the belt gives credence to the Foundations modus operandi. It also might help give Flip a new dimension to him with fans as a wrestler. Woods needs a couple more wins and a bit more seasoning before he gets a title shot and hopefully win in the end. As long as Gresham retains the title I'm ok with the match with Flip.

I would say Flip beating Woods is a bigger win with Woods having the victory over Lethal. It gives Flip more credibility going into the match with Gresham....even if no one thinks he is going to win. It also saves a Woods vs Gresham rematch for further down the road as Woods becomes a more credible character.

I'm sure the positive Covid test and sending people home didn't help since the whole tapings had to be rewritten.

[BurningHammer]

Well... can’t say im surprised, but can’t help but think how much better/logical would have this episode been... Had they NOT announce the Tag Titles matches and TV title match at the PPV in advance. Seriously ... they Should have done woods vs flip and the winner faces Dragon Lee at Final Battle!! Same with Mark/PCO vs Bouncers (even though Mark was owed a title shot).

My guess is they just didn’t want to wait until the last minute to reveal the card.

The other thing I didn’t like, was that they give Josh Woods a huge win over Jay Lethal, and follow up with a loss in a pure match to Flip Gordon?!? I’m sure considering that Josh woods pulled double duty... someone else maybe was supposed to take the L. If anything... they should have aired Josh vs flip first at it had ppv implications, THEN Josh Vs Lethal as it did not impact the ppv. Seems like common sense... how are they missing these details??

You could look it at either that the Woods win over Lethal was that much of a freak win or that he was over confident in the match against Flip because of that win. It just depends how you look it at. Honestly I think there is more trust in Flip over Woods to make a PPV quality match, you also have a very heel/face dynamic in Flip vs Gresham, or I hope that's how ROH see's it and if Gresham wins, it makes fans happy and him keeping the belt gives credence to the Foundations modus operandi. It also might help give Flip a new dimension to him with fans as a wrestler. Woods needs a couple more wins and a bit more seasoning before he gets a title shot and hopefully win in the end. As long as Gresham retains the title I'm ok with the match with Flip.

I would say Flip beating Woods is a bigger win with Woods having the victory over Lethal. It gives Flip more credibility going into the match with Gresham....even if no one thinks he is going to win. It also saves a Woods vs Gresham rematch for further down the road as Woods becomes a more credible character.

I'm sure the positive Covid test and sending people home didn't help since the whole tapings had to be rewritten.

Yeah that’s how I see it overall, I would say Gresham not being a tapings really put a hole in a few things overall. In the end it’s more ring time for Josh working with someone new and improving and that’s great, this loss to Flip won’t really matter.

[Wavelet Transform]

Such a waste of everything they've done with Woods this week. The Gresham-Woods match in the tournament was great because Gresham barely managed to win with a quick pin. Woods has looked unstoppable for weeks and all of a sudden a weak-looking stomp from Flip beats him clean? Just put Flip in w/ a jobber in pure rules to get him experience in the format and make him look strong for FB. Or, let Woods win and claim he deserves the next shot. Woods, I'm sure, will be fine in the long-run, but this made no sense.

I've also been entertained by anything featuring Brian Johnson on ROH TV. Hope there's plans for him in the future.

[BurningHammer]

The thing is what does pining a jobber to do, him wether you like it or not for Woods gives Flip credibility, all it's doing is pulling him back just ever so slightly so when he does get that win it will mean more to him. Plus if/when he does win Flip has that win other him that he pull out and say you can't beat me. If its a strategy for long term booking it's the right decision, if it's just short term thinking than obviously no it's not. What we also don't know is how the match will pan out for Gresham again if it's to get him over, say they have a great match but in Particular Gresham looks strong he stretches someone like Flip out for fans and himself he gets stronger. Its going to be all about the outcome of Final Battle and long term for Woods if why this match happened.