Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

*Spoilers!* This is the place to discuss the latest ROH announcements and events before they've aired on TV.
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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:28 am

monster mafia wrote:they can do things in the uk prior final battle...is not that bad but,i respect your opinion

cant see war machine breaking up ,idk what you said that,they just broke up addiction with kamaitachi and cabana with castle.
The thing is though, the UK tour like most ROH house shows will have the blanket over them of not being free to air on TV. You are loosing a lot of eyes on the product and considering it could be a big angle it might be rather wasted. Either way I think they are going to have use both SOTF and the UK tour to really try and put this feud into over drive because at the moment it's lacking that spark, which is a shame as they had only a month ago.

It might be that Rowe is leaving but Hanson isn't and they need a new environment for Hanson or which is my first choice they are looking to re-build the tag division and we will see a lot of teams splitting up if not all of them and a new set brought in. I have a feeling that Shelley might be turning heel or that Chris Sabin wont be around for much longer and they will look for something else for Shelley maybe similar to his role with Generation Next.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by monster mafia » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:43 am

rowe leaving ? why?

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by TYFDK » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:11 am

Well he's dating "Crazy" Mary Dobson, who just signed with the WWE, so he probably has a shot with them.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by monster mafia » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:56 am

gargano is married wih candice and she still wrestle on the indies..

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by TYFDK » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:01 am

Well they're too different people. Maybe Rowe wants to take the Ciampa route and go on their own a bit and then maybe get the notice of the WWE.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by monster mafia » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:38 am

TYFDK wrote:Well they're too different people. Maybe Rowe wants to take the Ciampa route and go on their own a bit and then maybe get the notice of the WWE.
but idk why you say that? why he is gonna leave? give me a reason

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by Brada » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:46 am

So, am I reading this right as to what happened in Baltimore....
Spoiler: show
Cabana turned heel on Castle?

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by TYFDK » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:51 am

monster mafia wrote:
TYFDK wrote:Well they're too different people. Maybe Rowe wants to take the Ciampa route and go on their own a bit and then maybe get the notice of the WWE.
but idk why you say that? why he is gonna leave? give me a reason
I mean it's just a guess. I'm not saying he is going to leave. Someone said they think he might be, and I'm just trying to explain why he might, IF he does.
Brada wrote:So, am I reading this right as to what happened in Baltimore....
Spoiler: show
Cabana turned heel on Castle?
I don't think a spoiler tag is needed in a thread about TV taping spoilers in the spoiler section, but yes, by attacking him with a feather.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by Brada » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:01 am

makes me wonder if it was just a comedy bit or a full heel turn

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:19 am

monster mafia wrote:rowe leaving ? why?
Just something I read, apparently he may well have a couple of tryouts recently. It maybe other people putting two and two together with Dobson being signed and Rowe being with her quite a bit down there. To be honest considering the age of many of the guys in the tag division it's in need of some really new blood and hopefully that's coming, I did see the Beaver Boys were at the recent tryouts and they would be very well come, If One of team IOU get's in much better shape again that would be a good team to have around and If ROH could also bring in Ishimori regularly to be with ACH that would be a nice tag team to take the division along.

I think the heel turn was a true heel turn I think it was just to add to the surprise of it all and to kind of some comedy hardcore to the turn, kind of how Joker from Batman would do probably drive a quill into someone's eyes.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by ndp » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:56 pm

Cabana turning could be interesting. I'm looking forward to Briscoes/Addiction and Rush/Gresham too.

I see some red flags with the trios title and division. Unless KUSHIDA, White & ACH win, which has its own problems since I don't see KUSHIDA being booked regularly enough for a champion let alone one for a newly created title, the first title program will have issues since virtually all the groups in ROH are heels, and even then, that side isn't the strongest.

Kamaitachi may have cut ties with The Addiction so that trio could be done (is he returning to NJPW and they had no time to do this split properly or did I miss a lot of hints?) and the Cabinet were stuck with a horrendous gimmick that killed segments and crowds for so long that it's going to take a lot to erase that. Unless the Bucks lose at FB and the Kingdom do a heel vs. heels who often act more like faces feud with The Bullet Club, the Briscoes lose at FB and get a random partner (please not Yano), or ROH gets a solid CMLL group in for a few tapings which would mean no development on live events, I don't see a hot program with the Kingdom over the belts. I think the only regular face group is MCMG/White (& Rush?), who feel like they should've been in the tournament. They look to feud with the Cabinet so they're out anyway.

They should have used this tournament to create a new babyface group, assuming KUSHIDA, White & ACH don't win or stay a team. There was room for the tournament to be slightly rearranged with a new regular face team making the semi-finals, getting screwed over and being future challengers to chase the Kingdom. Like many I was iffy on these belts when they announced them but looking at some of the trios they had and could put together, I thought it wasn't that terrible of an idea, but they sure haven't done much to build that division the last couple months. It may have actually gotten slightly weaker. Sure, the finals could be fun and I look forward to watching the CMLL guys, but the division seems like it'll be lacking. It'll be interesting to see if they have something solid set up for that division or if it'll be a series of guest teams until they find good face team to chase the belts.
BurningHammer wrote:I have a feeling that Shelley might be turning heel or that Chris Sabin wont be around for much longer and they will look for something else for Shelley maybe similar to his role with Generation Next.
I wouldn't mind a heel Shelley since he's great at it and it's been a long time since he's worked heel in a major promotion, but I don't see that happening. He, Sabin & White, and maybe Rush now, are the company's only face group. Him leading a face Gen Next type group looks likely though. I have higher hopes for that than Corino possibly leading some rag tag anti-Whitmer faction. I think people may be reading too much into a War Machine split with that segment.
SandsShifter wrote: Final Battle's looking good.

Cole v. O'Reilly
Young Bucks v. Briscoes
Fish v. Lee
Castle v. Cabana
Young v. Liger
The Kingdom v. ACH/KUSHIDA/White

Plus Cody R doing... whatever he's going to be doing.
Much of that hasn't had a big show build, but I think it could end up being a really good show. I think you can add Cabinet vs. Machine Guns & Lio Rush and maybe Daniels vs. Kamataichi or a four-way involving them. That's at least seven matches, possibly eight with a few key(ish) guys left over. If Lethal isn't added to the main event as some have speculated, that leaves him with nothing too unless he's in a random four-way or he wrestles Cody or Page. Have they said Cody is wrestling or will he just show up and cut a promo that eats up ring time like that horrible Cabinet thing on that one PPV? Oh God, he's teaming with Midnight Rider Steve Corino who'll do Dusty spots against Whitmer & Punisher, isn't he?

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:16 am

Will Rush replace Kushida in the finals as originally was intended or will ROH have Kushida at Final Battle. If not the interesting thing here is with the group being heavily NJPW guys and with ACH now having strong run in NJPW it may tip the face group into wining due to political nonsense. Considering though Kushida may well not be available too much and with he Kingdom being a stronger and more reliable group to push I can see The Kingdom wining at Final Battle.

I don't know if anyone has seen ACH's work in New Japan but he seems to be playing a heel more there and what with his recent outburst against ROH in another promotion could we see ACH turning heel and maybe joining the cabinet or the new version of and maybe see everyone turn on Rhett. Another possibility is that we will see The Cabinet vs MCMG/Rush and we see Rush turning as he has had a strong run as a heel in CZW.

With regards to Lethal I imagine we could see him vs Coady, there is also the possibility of either Ospreay or Scrull as their opponents have still to be announced.

If they aren't splitting up War Machine I can see them vs BJ and Martinez at Final Battle. I also have a feeling that BJ will interrupt the no rules match in SA and cost War Machine the match or maybe attack them afterwards. Maybe BJ will attack Steve at Final Battle and Coady will make the save and possibly set up a match during the PPV. If all of these matches have blood then they will make them great if not they will probably die a death.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by Wilson » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:28 pm

ndp wrote: Have they said Cody is wrestling or will he just show up and cut a promo that eats up ring time like that horrible Cabinet thing on that one PPV? Oh God, he's teaming with Midnight Rider Steve Corino who'll do Dusty spots against Whitmer & Punisher, isn't he?
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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by ndp » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:56 pm

BurningHammer wrote:Will Rush replace Kushida in the finals as originally was intended or will ROH have Kushida at Final Battle. If not the interesting thing here is with the group being heavily NJPW guys and with ACH now having strong run in NJPW it may tip the face group into wining due to political nonsense. Considering though Kushida may well not be available too much and with he Kingdom being a stronger and more reliable group to push I can see The Kingdom wining at Final Battle.
He's listed on the website. I expect The Kingdom to win at FB given how long they teased this version, them beating Bullet Club in their debut, and all three are regulars who NJPW doesn't use too which means there's much more certainty in booking them for TV and live events, but I agree there's a decent chance of it going the other way because of ROH wanting to appease NJPW. ROH being so high on White ups the odds too.
I don't know if anyone has seen ACH's work in New Japan but he seems to be playing a heel more there and what with his recent outburst against ROH in another promotion could we see ACH turning heel and maybe joining the cabinet or the new version of and maybe see everyone turn on Rhett. Another possibility is that we will see The Cabinet vs MCMG/Rush and we see Rush turning as he has had a strong run as a heel in CZW.
I could see either guy turning a couple months down the line, but I' m not keen on the idea of a militant heel faction with every black wrestler in the company minus Lethal, especially one whose previous incarnation did an awful job parodying Trump and Kaepernick. Then again, I've never understood the desire to create a new version of the Nation that's not going to measure up.
If they aren't splitting up War Machine I can see them vs BJ and Martinez at Final Battle. I also have a feeling that BJ will interrupt the no rules match in SA and cost War Machine the match or maybe attack them afterwards. Maybe BJ will attack Steve at Final Battle and Coady will make the save and possibly set up a match during the PPV. If all of these matches have blood then they will make them great if not they will probably die a death.
I don't think blood will be a magic cure all again. Speaking of massive blood loss, it sure looks like they missed the chance to capitalize off of Daniels' Ladder War performance and big promo last month in these last two tapings.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by Thelone » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:32 pm

Wilson wrote:
ndp wrote: Have they said Cody is wrestling or will he just show up and cut a promo that eats up ring time like that horrible Cabinet thing on that one PPV? Oh God, he's teaming with Midnight Rider Steve Corino who'll do Dusty spots against Whitmer & Punisher, isn't he?
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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:13 pm

ndp wrote: He's listed on the website. I expect The Kingdom to win at FB given how long they teased this version, them beating Bullet Club in their debut, and all three are regulars who NJPW doesn't use too which means there's much more certainty in booking them for TV and live events, but I agree there's a decent chance of it going the other way because of ROH wanting to appease NJPW. ROH being so high on White ups the odds too.
Yeah I have a feeling The Kingdom will go on and win then feud with Cole and the Bucks if they are still around.
I could see either guy turning a couple months down the line, but I' m not keen on the idea of a militant heel faction with every black wrestler in the company minus Lethal, especially one whose previous incarnation did an awful job parodying Trump and Kaepernick. Then again, I've never understood the desire to create a new version of the Nation that's not going to measure up.
The things why would it be any different to the Rottweilers, is it a social thing have we become more sensitive to what a group like that can create. I think in many ways it's thing like that are missing from WWE if it can handled in the right way without being too militant I think it can work but there is going to have to be a balance and line that isn't crossed.
I don't think blood will be a magic cure all again. Speaking of massive blood loss, it sure looks like they missed the chance to capitalize off of Daniels' Ladder War performance and big promo last month in these last two tapings.
I think blood will always add far more emotion to a match, especially in a blood feud like this is being somewhat portrayed as I think that's one thing it has going for it. Also when you take into account how Blood is looked at now I think we see it in a much stronger and violent light. I agree that there hasn't been a huge discourse over Daniels although it has been brought up a bit I guess that's the problem with only having an 1 hours television or so much money to create vignettes etc.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by ndp » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:51 pm

BurningHammer wrote:Yeah I have a feeling The Kingdom will go on and win then feud with Cole and the Bucks if they are still around.
I haven't seen the new Kingdom in action yet, but I don't see them having a main event or semi-main event program with the Bullet Club. At least right now.
The things why would it be any different to the Rottweilers, is it a social thing have we become more sensitive to what a group like that can create. I think in many ways it's thing like that are missing from WWE if it can handled in the right way without being too militant I think it can work but there is going to have to be a balance and line that isn't crossed.


I guess something like that could work, I just have no confidence in the current ROH team (or 21st century Vince) being able to pull it off. Whenever I see fantasy new Nations proposed online, they never include someone with a badass aura like Farooq or half the charisma of The Rock so it seems doomed to fail when you're asking for the comparison. None of the the current Cabinet members have either. A Rottweilers comparison would be better for them but I'm still not sold on it.

Everything about the past version of the group including imitating the Kaepernick stuff for cheap heat doesn't give me confidence in ROH being able to land such a thing. The Cabinet are capable in the ring and the guys they look to be feuding with are great so the matches could be good. I just have reservations about everything else. I don't mind being wrong if it means something great happened. I doubt that'll be the case here. Hey, it can't be worse than what they have been doing, right?
I think blood will always add far more emotion to a match, especially in a blood feud like this is being somewhat portrayed as I think that's one thing it has going for it. Also when you take into account how Blood is looked at now I think we see it in a much stronger and violent light.
I think the last match worked because it over performed and exceeded most people's low expectations. The feud has only gotten colder since then and the stuff with Punisher and continued use of Sullivan have fallen flat, to me at least. They already used the blood trick. I think they'll need something more than that if they're going to spend a PPV slot on that feud and have it not be a buzzkill.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by BurningHammer » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:45 am

I haven't seen the new Kingdom in action yet, but I don't see them having a main event or semi-main event program with the Bullet Club. At least right now.
I certainly think they will be semi main event, certainly Taven will be if Cole is still around and I think Mersaglia and KO will be a good tag for the Bucks, if not then I guess we will see them against another trios team.

I guess something like that could work, I just have no confidence in the current ROH team (or 21st century Vince) being able to pull it off. Whenever I see fantasy new Nations proposed online, they never include someone with a badass aura like Farooq or half the charisma of The Rock so it seems doomed to fail when you're asking for the comparison. None of the the current Cabinet members have either. A Rottweilers comparison would be better for them but I'm still not sold on it.
Farooq certainly had a lot of legitimacy both in the ring and the mic and that's where the Cabinet will lack but I do think King certainly has the charisma and the appetite to really get something going if given a proper run with some freedom. King for me is very underrated on the mic and a I think a heel move set allows him to generally better in the ring, especially as he bumps well which is always needed for heels. like a say the Rottweilers type idea might be a better idea, but we have seen so much of this heel factions trying to take ROH or down or groups just being a group for the sake of it, so they are really going to have create something significantly different for them to be separated from the rest.
Everything about the past version of the group including imitating the Kaepernick stuff for cheap heat doesn't give me confidence in ROH being able to land such a thing. The Cabinet are capable in the ring and the guys they look to be feuding with are great so the matches could be good. I just have reservations about everything else. I don't mind being wrong if it means something great happened. I doubt that'll be the case here. Hey, it can't be worse than what they have been doing, right?
The thing I've no problem with the Cabinet as a thing as I have seen so much and there is so much worse in wrestling right now I can deal with it especially as it gives them direction instead of just floating around being ANX which fall really flat as a group generally. The Cabinet has gotten far more reaction than they have had for a long while.
I think the last match worked because it over performed and exceeded most people's low expectations. The feud has only gotten colder since then and the stuff with Punisher and continued use of Sullivan have fallen flat, to me at least. They already used the blood trick. I think they'll need something more than that if they're going to spend a PPV slot on that feud and have it not be a buzzkill.
I think Martinez has given it a fresh injection or it at least allows a young guy to have an interesting character to some and a young guy to progress and get over. This is by no means me giving this a thumbs up, if this had been condensed into six/seven months this would actually have some real momentum and I think have a much better rhythm and heat, sadly for various reasons ROH still went with it and it was dragged on. Sullivan should just never be in and around the ring, just have him appear in vignettes or appear and then disappear on stage through black out's, him dawdling to ring just creates comedy rather than strength, power or a scary energy.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:50 am

BurningHammer wrote:
Everything about the past version of the group including imitating the Kaepernick stuff for cheap heat doesn't give me confidence in ROH being able to land such a thing. The Cabinet are capable in the ring and the guys they look to be feuding with are great so the matches could be good. I just have reservations about everything else. I don't mind being wrong if it means something great happened. I doubt that'll be the case here. Hey, it can't be worse than what they have been doing, right?
The thing I've no problem with the Cabinet as a thing as I have seen so much and there is so much worse in wrestling right now I can deal with it especially as it gives them direction instead of just floating around being ANX which fall really flat as a group generally. The Cabinet has gotten far more reaction than they have had for a long while.
The heat the Cabinet is getting is the wrong kind of heat. And I don't mean "wrong kind of heat" as in "you are talking about and/or things that make us uncomfortable." I mean the wrong kind of heat as in "this is so f*cking stupid. Why are they doing this bullsh*t" type of heat. The type of heat that makes you angry at the company, not the heels.

My personal problem with the Cabinet is that it's a moronic, one-note joke. Six months ago when they started this dumb thing (even before Caprice had joined) and Rhett and Kenny started saying that they wanted to "make wrestling great again," Kevin Kelly indignantly said "I thought it already was great!" and nothing has progressed from there. It's six months later and the election is in a week, and if Donald Trump loses (as most predictions indicate he will) then this one-note group will no longer even have the bullsh*t excuse of trying to "parody" a "mainstream" thing... and then what? Then what do you do with these guys when you've wasted six months having them act like buffoons, going around calling themselves the "Chairman of Championships and the Secretary of Shoulders" and pretending that there is some sort of election going on in ROH or something (see Caprice's promo from the 10/15 TV), so now how is anyone ever supposed to take these goofs seriously anymore? Which is a huge shame because Kenny King is the most underutilized guy in all of wrestling and has been for years and deserves a lot better than this (and Rhett is a serviceable partner for him when one is needed)

Theoretically you could defend it by saying they were being clever... except that they haven't been clever at all. The Kaepernick thing makes no sense in context (there's no rule that says you have to stand for the Code of Honor, and at least they are still actually shaking hands, as oppose dot half of the heels on the roster who just ignore it, and yet Kevin kelly doesn't react with anywhere near as much outrage or talk of "controversy"), and they have shown themselves to have absolutely no ideas whatsoever as to how to actually parody Trump's campaign as opposed to just using the slogan of an unpopular candidate for cheap heat. If they were complaining about "ACH and Michael Elgin's jobs being outsourced to Japan" or "replaced with cheap foreign labor like Jay White or Kamaitachi" that would be one thing, but this supposed "parody" can't even be called that because there is no substance to it other than the slogan.

So all in all, it's nothing but a huge waste of time that does nothing but annoy fans and damage Kenny King's career.

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Re: Road To "Final Battle 2016" TV Tapings Thread

Post by ndp » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:07 pm

BurningHammer wrote:I certainly think they will be semi main event, certainly Taven will be if Cole is still around and I think Mersaglia and KO will be a good tag for the Bucks, if not then I guess we will see them against another trios team.
Are you suggesting a Cole/Tavern feud and/or a Bucks/Kingdom feud or O'Reilly wins the belt and the Bullet Club feuds with The Kingdom in the semi-main. I doubt any of that occurs. I figure the post FB World Title program with still be some combination of Cole, O'Reilly and Lethal, maybe with Fish or Cody Rhodes thrown in there depending on what his deal is. Who knows with the Bucks. If the Kingdom wins the six-man belts, they shouldn't be in the doubles tag title feud. Either way, if the Kingdom semi-mains as you suggest--non-champ Bucks and Page as trio challengers is possible, but again, a clear face/heel feud for the belts would be nice--I don't expect it to get over to that level, not yet at least.

As for the Cabinet, I think I'll just agree to disagree. Everything about them so far has been a huge miss for me and it dragged on for so long that it'll be hard to fix it. Doing one of these 180 degree gimmick changes out of no where isn't the way to do it. It reminds of that time Eric Young was a joke character in TNA for years and then one day he shaved his head and fans were expected to take him seriously (they didn't). I agree with Big Red Machine that they get the wrong kind of heat (when they get heat). I don't expect a New Day type scenario with them being able to turn around what I perceive as a DOA gimmick and make it a big success (even then it was kind of the opposite gimmickwise). It's been too long and I don't have confidence in the booking to do it.

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