September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

*Spoilers!* This is the place to discuss the latest ROH announcements and events before they've aired on TV.
DBSommer
Posts: 2476
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 1:06 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by DBSommer »

taxidriver77 wrote:RoH expecting fans to give a shit about the Headbangers reveal is just shocking.
Agree. The only redeeming thing is they relegated them to an online match against 2 one nighters rather than making us watch them on TV. Actually if they lose to every team they face (The Bravados need a win), and put them over *might* be the only pro about them. But then again, you could also bring in 2 genuinely talented guys to put on actual good matches as well.

Yeah, Headbangers. Just... bad, bad, bad.
taxidriver77
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:25 am

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by taxidriver77 »

The thing to put the Headbangers into context is that, considering their position on the card, heel status and the timing of when they came in, they're effectively RoH's replacement for the Young Bucks. It's a bit like if the decided Steen was too expensive to fly in and replaced him with Viscera.
YimYac
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by YimYac »

The hate QT gets for one bad match (which most of us haven't even seen) is fucking amazing. This forum is so ridiculous sometimes. Mike Bennett Syndrome strikes again.
User avatar
JigsawVs.Jason
Posts: 2918
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:13 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

They better not do Lethal vs Steen again at Final Battle, that would be an awful main event.
"If anyone complains about how today's pro wrestling isn't as good as the past and isn't watching New Japan, their opinions have no validity." ~ Dave Meltzer
DieHard
Posts: 3115
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by DieHard »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote:They better not do Lethal vs Steen again at Final Battle, that would be an awful main event.
What's awful about it? and this will be much better than Edwards vs Richards from last year for sure.
Image
MOOSE!
User avatar
ROHWorld_Harry
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1481
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:19 am
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Contact:

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by ROHWorld_Harry »

YimYac wrote:The hate QT gets for one bad match (which most of us haven't even seen) is fucking amazing. This forum is so ridiculous sometimes. Mike Bennett Syndrome strikes again.
Why do you keep talking about QT Marshall. Most recent posts here are discussing Lethal & The Headbangers?
TYFDK
Posts: 3590
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by TYFDK »

When it comes to the Headbangers, I'm watching some of their old stuff from '99, and they impersonated the Dudleyz before a match.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm a-ok with the Headbangers if they do that in ROH.
Jeremy
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by Jeremy »

DBSommer wrote:
Jeremy wrote:The booking already sounds pretty brutal.

So after the lengthy Rhett Titus VS WGTT feud, the best he can do is still just get a fluke roll-up? He can't beat either of them cleanly? What good does it do him? Then WGTT squash him immediately after to get their heat back, rendering the whole thing completely pointless.

Davey Richards has to have a distraction to beat Mike Bennett? The "Best In The World" has trouble beating a midcarder?

QT Marshall getting even more of a push? After that huge Ciampa VS QT twitter feud, ROH is pretty spineless to job Ciampa out like that to a guy clearly the fans just don't care for. He's AWFUL; Get over your erection for him already Cornette.
Umm, not beating them cleanly would be if someone interfered of they cheated. Last time I checked there was no reason a schoolboy doesn't 'count' as beating someone. Besides, BJ did it, not Rhett, and I don't think BJ's had a win since his return, so any victory is a good one for him rather than his tenth loss in a row. And a post match beatdown by the heels happens all the time when they lose. It does establish the new team of BJ and Rhett as viable and capable of beating WGTT and that it's not the end of the feud. How is that pointless? Were you expecting the blow off to the feud by Titus and BJ leaving WGTT in a pool of their own blood the first time they team? WGTT defeating Titus and his new partner showing how ineffective they are? DDQ or double countout to show they're evenly matched? There are only so many outcomes possible. Any that result in a WGTT loss sit well with me.

(BTW, I actually would have enjoyed WGTT being sent packing drenched in their own blood since they bore the hell out of me, but that wasn't going to happen so I can't be disappointed in that sense.)
Roll-ups aren't decisive in the least. During the entire ANX VS WGTT feud, ANX never were able to decisively beat either Haas or Shelton, rather Titus and King lost repeatedly, were out-smarted, whatever. The one time they DID beat WGTT was with a roll-up and they were immediately laid-out after the match. Rhett has been feuding with them all year, and he's still not up to a level where he can beat them with his finisher? It still has to be by a roll-up? The feud needs to end, it's made Titus look like a total jobber and there is still no reason WGTT should be as protected. They need to lose decisively, plain and simple.

In regards to Lethal winning, he didn't need it. He has a title match coming up, so he's already at the level. If Davey won, it would have actually given him a nice win after returning from a hiatus. The SOTF I think should be used to elevate an upper midcarder to a main event run. Lethal already IS one of their bigger attractions and like mentioned getting a title shot. Was him winning the whole thing really for the best?

If Lethal VS Steen main events Final Battle, it would remind me very much of John Cena VS Triple H from WrestleMania 22. Yeah, it would be a good match, but is it really the best they can offer at their biggest event of the year?

In regards to The Headbangers.... wow. Them being the Guardians of Truth was bad enough, but I never thought I'd see the actual Headbangers in Ring of Honor. That's a new low for the fed.
Image
GardenStateSaint
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: GR, NJ

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by GardenStateSaint »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote:They better not do Lethal vs Steen again at Final Battle, that would be an awful main event.
I'm not sure it would be awful but I think you're thinking it wouldn't have the magnitude or enormity for such an event.
Tomato cans don't stand a chance.
DBSommer
Posts: 2476
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 1:06 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by DBSommer »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote: But why the hell let Lethal win the whole thing, they could have easily have him eliminate Davey during the match and have Cole and O'Reilly being the final 2!! Lethal winning achieves nothing, the guys is over and a legitimate main eventer, he does not need the push!
Getting Mondo in the second round did actually nothing, what was the point of that???!! They should have just furthered the Mondo/Bennett angle, by letting Bennett interfer in his match with Kyle. That way we could have had a HUGE final two finale in O'Reilly and Cole and a worthy winner, who actually needs the push.
You're also right it shouldn't have been Cole winning it, but why the hell not O'Reilly? By last eliminating Cole, they could have a final match at a future house show (making one of those must-see) and at the same time push Kyle to the main event where he belongs.
I'm getting really frustrated with the booking, they constantly push guys I'm not interested in and most of all: there are no storylines that are really interesting right now. Why don't you finally book sth to advance the SCUM vs ROH angle Cornette?! I just hope they get the belt off Steen and end this stupid angle, since they apparently cannot execute it right.

Agree. There was no reason to have Mondo beat a guy you're giving a TV title push. And as someone else said, Mondo comes off more like the bad guy in his feud with Bennett with his... unflattering remarks about Maria.

O'Reilly should have been in the finals. Either Cole should have eliminated him, or he could have eliminated Cole, then had Cole distract him and cause O'Reilly to be eliminated, a la Generico and Steen in the '10 SOTF.

However there are a couple of cons to O'Reilly winning this SotF.

1: He just got a TV title shot at the last show from winning his proving ground match and is getting a build up to that match. If he wins SOTF and gets a world title shot, who cares about a chance at winning a secondary title when he can get the big one? It would make his proving ground win pointless since he gets a shot at a bigger prize and he should be focused on that. Also the same guy is starting to collect all the championship matches getting put up, which is focusing a lot of attention on him at the cost of it being with others.

2: Worse, if O'Reilly wins SOTF then Cole *has* to win the TV Title match. O'Reilly has already beaten Cole in a proving ground match and eliminated or outlasted Cole in SOTF. If O'Reilly make it 3 in a row, as well as the humiliation of taking the belt, that kind of total domination undermines any credibility ROH has built for Cole being a future star and potential world champ. So you either give away the winner of the title match, or you shit on a guy you're supposed to be building as the future of the company.

Then you're left with either O'Reilly holding the TV strap, who can't win the world title because it vacates the TV title (and the fans are not gonna buy that kind of a monster push for O'Reilly), or a challenger to the world title who couldn't even win the TV title.


Bottom line is, there are cons to anyone other than Roddy winning SOTF. There are also pros to anyone other than Mondo winning it (O'Reilly included as you mentioned some of them). The best choice of winning it is influenced by who will be the world champ after GBH. Certain men would be better getting a shot at Steen, while others make more sense if it were Elgin. Only booking knows. And the way they do things sometimes, you wonder if they do know :)
DBSommer
Posts: 2476
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 1:06 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by DBSommer »

Jeremy wrote:
Roll-ups aren't decisive in the least. During the entire ANX VS WGTT feud, ANX never were able to decisively beat either Haas or Shelton, rather Titus and King lost repeatedly, were out-smarted, whatever. The one time they DID beat WGTT was with a roll-up and they were immediately laid-out after the match. Rhett has been feuding with them all year, and he's still not up to a level where he can beat them with his finisher? It still has to be by a roll-up? The feud needs to end, it's made Titus look like a total jobber and there is still no reason WGTT should be as protected. They need to lose decisively, plain and simple.

In regards to Lethal winning, he didn't need it. He has a title match coming up, so he's already at the level. If Davey won, it would have actually given him a nice win after returning from a hiatus. The SOTF I think should be used to elevate an upper midcarder to a main event run. Lethal already IS one of their bigger attractions and like mentioned getting a title shot. Was him winning the whole thing really for the best?

If Lethal VS Steen main events Final Battle, it would remind me very much of John Cena VS Triple H from WrestleMania 22. Yeah, it would be a good match, but is it really the best they can offer at their biggest event of the year?

In regards to The Headbangers.... wow. Them being the Guardians of Truth was bad enough, but I never thought I'd see the actual Headbangers in Ring of Honor. That's a new low for the fed.
I agree the feud should end, but it was not happening in that match, (much as we would wish it otherwise.) And I'm pretty sure it was BJ who got the roll up, and he hasn't beaten anyone since his return. Having him suddenly team up with Titus and having them destroy WGTT out of the gate is not the way things to kick things off with a new pairing unless you're giving them some huge push. And this is a continuing feud rather than the end. I am happy they're apparently giving BJ something to do, as I am up on him. And if they decide to keep he and Titus together, I'm hopeful they'll be a good addition to the tag team picture, which is needed badly. They won't be ANX, but they will be good unless they totally don't click.

Maybe we'll get lucky and that ending we want will come in a loser leaves town match? I can dream, can't I? :cry:

Yeah, you pointed out a lot of the cons to Lethal winning, and there are a few more. He was by no means a clear cut choice (not my first choice for sure). As to Davey winning here, I think they're pushing the idea of Davey's big return win to take place at the ippv (Lord help us if Jay wins that as well). That's the bigger match (GBH is bigger than an SotF houseshow), and Jay getting this win over Davey adds to that match as more incentive for Davey to win, while making him look somewhat vulnerable to Lethal. Jigsaw was right that the same thing could have been accomplished in the middle of the match, so Lethal winning SotF to add to the return match at GBH was far from a necessity.

For all my naysaying, I am more in your camp and was hoping for O'Reilly winning it, despite the cons to that. But as I mentioned before, only Roddy winning doesn't have any downside of the guys that could win.
I could have lived with anyone other than Mondo winning.

I think it's early to call Lethal Steen for FB. Not that it's outside the realm of possiblity. But Jay's already gotten his 'Killer Instinct' push, and I don't think they're so in love with him he'll get yet another world title push so quickly. Especially if he drops his match to Davey, which I think is a lock with the way the finals turned out. But ROH continues to surprise me. Sadly, the surprises are rarely good.

In regard to the Headbangers, as low as that is, there have been other low points. Abdullah the Butcher main eventing. Konnan getting a huge push only to get gassed 5 minutes into his match. Someone letting CM Punk fight Terry Funk, who could barely get into the ring (I'm sorry, I used to love Terry, but he looked like a pathetic old man and even Punk couldn't make anything redeeming about it). Jeff Hardy's botchfest. Ox Baker teaming with Special K. Jake 'the Snake' Roberts being the surprise Dreamer had in his feud with Lawler at the ppv (Oops, wrong fed). But, yeah, unless they have the Bangers drop their matches to get over younger teams like the Bravados, this is a bad idea. And there would still be better ways to get younger teams over than recycling the Bangers.

Maybe they'll end up in a loser leaves town match as well? I can dream about that too, can't I? :cry:

But what I really want more than anything is matches that look good in the ring. No matter how well booked something is, if it doesn't deliver in the ring, then that's the true failure (see the Nigel/Black/Aries 3 way at Escalation for an example). NigelLikesMcguiness was there and said it delivered, and if it did, then it was a good job. Maybe not the best possible, but I don't demand perfection, just something enjoyable. *shrug*
User avatar
JigsawVs.Jason
Posts: 2918
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:13 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

DBSommer wrote: But what I really want more than anything is matches that look good in the ring. No matter how well booked something is, if it doesn't deliver in the ring, then that's the true failure (see the Nigel/Black/Aries 3 way at Escalation for an example). NigelLikesMcguiness was there and said it delivered, and if it did, then it was a good job. Maybe not the best possible, but I don't demand perfection, just something enjoyable. *shrug*
Yeah that's waht I want most of all too, but you're not gonna be getting that out of Mondo, Bennett, WGTT, Rhino, Headbangers, Hardy, QT Marshall, their wrestling abilities range from bland and mediocre to downright painful to watch. And the most frustrating thing of all, pushing guys like WGTT and Rhino to the upper cards, results in having awesome wrestlers who can deliver in the ring to be dragged down as well. IMO those WWE/TNA has-beens and untalented entertainment wrestlers should be confined to the under or lower midcard. First and formost I want to see the best wrestling possible, it just frustrates me when Sinclair lets go amazing wrestlers like Generico, TJP, and most of all the best tag team in the world: YOung Bucks and starts replacing them with cheaper guys who cannot hang in the ring :/
"If anyone complains about how today's pro wrestling isn't as good as the past and isn't watching New Japan, their opinions have no validity." ~ Dave Meltzer
TYFDK
Posts: 3590
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by TYFDK »

My big problem with Mondo beating O'Reilly is that it makes Adam Cole look pretty weak.

O'Reilly beat Cole in Charlotte, Cole beat Mondo in Chicago, and now Mondo beats someone who won against the TV champion, while he couldn't?

Doesn't make much sense.
User avatar
Marketh.
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by Marketh. »

TYFDK wrote:My big problem with Mondo beating O'Reilly is that it makes Adam Cole look pretty weak.

O'Reilly beat Cole in Charlotte, Cole beat Mondo in Chicago, and now Mondo beats someone who won against the TV champion, while he couldn't?

Doesn't make much sense.
It makes them look more even to each other than Cole look weak.
Last Real Man Hype
DBSommer
Posts: 2476
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 1:06 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by DBSommer »

Marketh. wrote:
It makes them look more even to each other than Cole look weak.
Yeah, win exchanges happened all the time like that. Punk got pinned clean in a tag match against Jacobs and BJ right before the blow off to his feud with Rave at Nowhere to Run but it didn't make him look weak. He then turned around and dropped another tag match against Collyer and Nigel right after that. Two cards later, he's World champ. Of course most of us don't feel Mondo us the caliber of either Cole or O'Reilly, so that bugs a lot of us.
YimYac
Posts: 2546
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by YimYac »

ROHWorld_Harry wrote:
YimYac wrote:The hate QT gets for one bad match (which most of us haven't even seen) is fucking amazing. This forum is so ridiculous sometimes. Mike Bennett Syndrome strikes again.
Why do you keep talking about QT Marshall. Most recent posts here are discussing Lethal & The Headbangers?
Read the first page of ridiculous overreactions when this forum should have matured past overreactions to TV spoilers.

But whatever that's the way the IWC works no use trying to talk sense into people.
GardenStateSaint
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: GR, NJ

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by GardenStateSaint »

Marketh. wrote:
TYFDK wrote:My big problem with Mondo beating O'Reilly is that it makes Adam Cole look pretty weak.

O'Reilly beat Cole in Charlotte, Cole beat Mondo in Chicago, and now Mondo beats someone who won against the TV champion, while he couldn't?

Doesn't make much sense.
It makes them look more even to each other than Cole look weak.
This is how I see it. Plus ROH was/should be a place where anybody can beat anybody on any given day, unlike other promotions where it's too absurd.
Tomato cans don't stand a chance.
TYFDK
Posts: 3590
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by TYFDK »

I wonder when, or if, ROH is gonna even release the Headbangers match on YouTube.
187_Joeism
Posts: 4914
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:26 am
Location: Canary Islands, Spain

Re: September 22nd TV Tapings (SOTF 2012)

Post by 187_Joeism »

The match was taped on the 4th Show so if they release the match it have to be during the next week
Image
Post Reply