Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

*Spoilers!* This is the place to discuss the latest ROH announcements and events before they've aired on TV.
YimYac
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by YimYac »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote:Titus is from NJ as well, him being used in a house show main event and Lethal in the iPPV main event would be ideal booking I'd say, you simply need a bigger (by that I mean someone who's good in the ring and can deliver an iPPV worthy main event match) guy like Lethal for such a big show, it's not a random house show and Rhino should never be in the main event of such an important show, he's just an old, boring never-was, who should be used to bring young midcarders over, and definitely not to defeat Eddie and be in an ROH PPV!!

why would Titus get a title shot after the cage match? hmm maybe he pins Steen in the cage match? yeah you're right that would be too logical...
Thing is, both Titus and Jay Briscoe would be bigger opponents for Steen (as in delivering a better match) for DBD X

yes and it would have been much more effective if they had used the four weeks of TV tapings - which they wasted for Rhino - to further the Steen/Titus feud and actually capitalise on the King situation. Which would also be much more ligical, as they have already hinted at Steen/Titus in Milwaukee.

I doubt many fans would bitch more about Strong or Eddie getting the shot at DBD (under the assumption they would have used jobbers like Rhino, Homicide for the past house shows instead of Steen/Eddie and Steen/Roddy) than people are now complaining that one of the biggest shows of the year is headlined by a washed up ECW has-been. Don't bring up Lynn, he's lightyears better than Rhino...

Yes, I'm 100% confident Steen vs Homicide would equal more buyrates, mind elaborating why you scoff at that thought?

You're right, he did not have a downright horrible match, damn I think he could be entertaining jobbing to midcarders in fun 10 minute matches, but he in no shape, way or form should he be anywhere near an ROH main event!

so let's turn the tables, name any GREAT match Rhino has had since coming to ROH, hell name me one match in his career that was great!
he's simply not a good wrestler, especially not in a promotion that supposedly features the best wrestling on the planet

Lethal is definitely not a bigger name than Rhino, and Lethal vs Steen would make more sense in NJ.

Rhino is an old boring never-was? What? The guy who was the last TV and World Champ in ECW, and had a pretty damn good WWE run was a never-was? Sure buddy. Btw Rhino is 36, since when is 36 old? Hell wasn't last Lance Storm 37 when he got his world title shot vs Bryan? Jerry Lynn was way older than 36 during his title shots/reign.

Even by wrestling standards 36 isn't old when a lot of wrestlers keep going well past 45.

Explain to me how Titus is a credible opponent for Steen atm when their angle hasn't even took off yet?

As I said Jay Briscoe is clearly already busy in an angle before he gets to the cage match angle.

Steen vs Homicide would get more buyrates than Rhino vs Steen? I'm fairly sure many fans weren't very happy with Homicide's last world title push vs Roderick. Steen vs Rhino is a match that has never happened and a fresh title defense to give Steen more credibility.

"Name any great match Rhino has had since coming to ROH"

Did you not read me listing off the matches he has had in ROH?

His best matches so far have been Border Wars vs Eddie and the Proving Ground vs Davey. I haven't even seen his other 2 Eddie Edwards matches.

Even his Street Fight vs Homicide was probably his worst match and still very good. After rewatching it, I'd say it was even above average.

Name any matches in his career that were great? You've got to be trolling with such a stupid question.


I'm sorry you can't see it and just want to mindlessly complain, Rhino is currently the only viable challenger for Steen. So feel free to miss a great match and not buy the PPV. I've already detailed why no other challenger currently makes sense.

Btw it's clear they're building up an angle with Lethal vs Steen at TV. Lethal low-blowed Matt Taven to prove to Cornette he has killer instincts to beat Steen.

Gee, it almost sounds like *gasp* THEY'RE SAVING THE MATCH TO BUILD UP TO IT. But nah just give Lethal a throwaway title shot at DBD
ColourMeCurious
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by ColourMeCurious »

I was at the tapings and I can say the only people whining about Rhino and Steen are the internet fans, which are a good amount, are probably not the majority of people watching the show on TV.

If I'm an old ECW/WWE fan and I have been passively watching ROH on TV, and I hear it's Rhino vs the world champ, I'm probably going to be more interested and want to buy the iPPV, so even if the people complaining here don't buy the iPPV (which they probably will regardless of the amount of belly aching here), other fans will probably replace their buys, giving an average or above average iPPV buyrate.

Also, i dont even get the Rhino hate. He is good still, looks good, is a name and a face people recognize, and his style will definitely mesh well with Steen's, and hopefully it will be a No-DQ match. I may be in the minority here, but I'm excited for the match.


On a different note, I just listened to Corino's podcast. He mentioned himself and Jacobs are NOT under contract.
syxxpakk
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by syxxpakk »

Of course, no one in this thread is talking down to or insulting those who like the idea of Rhino main eventing. So why do posters have to talk down to and insult those who don't? I'll never understand that line of thinking.
ColourMeCurious
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by ColourMeCurious »

I didn't mean to talk down or be insulting anyone. I was just stating my opinion. Didn't mean to offend you if I somehow did.
syxxpakk
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by syxxpakk »

ColourMeCurious wrote:I didn't mean to talk down or be insulting anyone. I was just stating my opinion. Didn't mean to offend you if I somehow did.
I don't know, saying people are "whining" or "belly aching" just seems unnecessary. I legit don't want to see Rhino in a main event to the point that I'm actively not going to buy my first iPPV that I'll be available for. To date, I've missed only four: Final Battle 2009 (wedding night), Big Bang (was there live), and Honor Takes Center Stage weekend (live again). The best way for me to truly voice my opinion about this is to speak with my wallet, so that's what I'm doing. But that's my opinion, same as yours and you enjoying the idea of it. I'm not going to fault you for that, I respect it. You're entitled to it. But saying I'm "whining" or, as YimYac put it, an "idiot" just because I don't want to see that isn't necessary. Attack the opinion, not the poster.
YimYac
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by YimYac »

syxxpakk wrote:
ColourMeCurious wrote:I didn't mean to talk down or be insulting anyone. I was just stating my opinion. Didn't mean to offend you if I somehow did.
I don't know, saying people are "whining" or "belly aching" just seems unnecessary. I legit don't want to see Rhino in a main event to the point that I'm actively not going to buy my first iPPV that I'll be available for. To date, I've missed only four: Final Battle 2009 (wedding night), Big Bang (was there live), and Honor Takes Center Stage weekend (live again). The best way for me to truly voice my opinion about this is to speak with my wallet, so that's what I'm doing. But that's my opinion, same as yours and you enjoying the idea of it. I'm not going to fault you for that, I respect it. You're entitled to it. But saying I'm "whining" or, as YimYac put it, an "idiot" just because I don't want to see that isn't necessary. Attack the opinion, not the poster.
1. Was I talking to you?

2. If you think that isn't whining you must not know these forums very well.

JigsawvsJason's arguments are incredibly illogical and have been debunked by me in two posts
Jeremy
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by Jeremy »

I don't have any problems with Rhino getting a title match, be it on TV or a house show. But why use the PPV as a platform to show you have a former ECW champion (Which was eleven years ago, it's honestly not as relevant as what some think) and a WWE midcarder instead of showcasing one of your own guys?

People are saying Rhino is all they have for the show, however they had plenty of time to rethink a better card. Cole VS Steen could have EASILY happened at the show and I guarantee that would do more for Cole than what it will do for Rhino, and the match won't be forgotten in six months.

Rhino doesn't NEED the ROH title, or be in competition for it. He's fine as a special attraction. I have no problem with him in that regard, but why is he now fighting for your top title on one of your biggest shows of the year? It only succeeds in making the fed look like yet another local indy trying to capitalize on a former "big name" to sell tickets. Does Rhino really sell THAT many more tickets and is still that big of a draw years after his last major run to warrant such a high-profile title match?
Ciampa: If you have an hour show you have to use squashes to keep wrestlers in TV, you could like more or less but is a fact. Ciampa has develop his caracter a lot since last year so i don´t understand why do you say that he is doing the same after all the things that he did this year.

Edwards: He is not losing always, look his record this year, he is having a feud with Bennett to elevate him right now is not like he was jobbing everyone in pointless matches.
So Brutal Bob gets TV matches against Eddie Edwards and Adam Cole, and yet Ciampa still is squashing jobbers at every TV taping for a year? You honestly can't tell me he shouldn't be doing more after all that time? So what if he developed his character as much as you are claiming? All he is doing is the EXACT SAME THING he was doing at the original set of tapings (Again, a full year ago) and every taping since then. How is that amazing development of his character when he's working the same jobbers he was for the past year? And I call BS on your squashes argument, with better booking they easily could have him in matches like they do with Elgin and he'd be a lot more than what he is now. It is in no way "fact" squashes are the answer.

Edwards is the main event jobber at this point. He might have beaten some midcarders here and there, but for the most part he's simply used to make matches seem important (Him VS Steen, him VS Rhino) so when Edwards loses, it seems like a huge win (VS Bennett). Him VS Steen wouldn't be a bad feud in the least, unfortunately they only match they had was a tossed-off house show match that was more of a vehicle to continue Steen VS Cornette as opposed to making Edwards seem like a threat. He deserves much better than what he is getting.
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DieHard
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by DieHard »

:lol: i am the only one who remember everyone yelling "we are sick of Edwards in the Main Event!!!" (and Strong and Richards but they are not relevant here). What's changed since then?
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Jeremy
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by Jeremy »

I don't think people had a problem with Eddie Edwards really, or at least I didn't personally. Davey and Roderick were beyond stale (2009-2011 was a bit much), but Edwards was fresh and his title run, though short, felt very fresh.

I think the problem some had was for a while the only in contention were Davey, Roderick, and Edwards. Then Edwards and Roderick had what felt like an overload of matches in such a short period of time. But Edwards VS Steen feels fresh, and it's a shame that their two matches this year felt so rushed and unimportant in the grand scheme of things. A feud between them has potential to be great.

Just keep Roderick and Richards far away, though.
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by SeanWrestling »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote:
YimYac wrote:
JigsawVs.Jason wrote:your explanations for Titus and Lethal are not really convincing. They could have easily made it Steen vs Titus in NJ and Titus vs Lethal at DBD. Since when did the Titus angle not begin? I don't recall Rhino being in an angle with Steen?! Point is they could have easily furthered the Steen/Titus storyline (which at least has begun in Milwaulkee, while Rhino was not once invloved with Steen) at the TV tapings. But apparently Cornette thinks Rhino is what fans want to see as the main event of a trademark show like Death before Dishonor, I predict buyrates will tell a different story.
My point of criticism is: Rhino should be nowhere near the main event of an ROH show much less an ROH iPPV. Why on earth did they have the match vs Eddie or the match vs Roddy on a house show, and now book Rhino to be in the main event of an iPPV???!!! That's the point I'm trying to make, it's just a case of horrible, lazy booking! Nobody would complain if Rhino would get a title shot at the TV tapings or somewhere in the midcard of a house show, while Eddie or Strong or even Homicide would be perfect for an iPPV main event. Rhino is and never was a main eventer, and should definitely not be in the main event of an promotion that claims to stand for "the best wrestling in the business"
And nobody can honestly defend ROH for putting Rhino in an iPPV main event, that should have never happened and it really divulges the terrible and obviously Cornette influenced booking!
Hell his worst match was probably the Street Fight vs Homicide and even that was good.

Lethal/Homicide vs Ciampa/Rhino was good.

Eddie Edwards vs Rhino at Border Wars was downright excellent and one of the best openers of the year.

Rhino vs Davey was incredibly solid

I've yet to see Eddie vs Rhino 2 and 3, but I've heard nothing but good reviews.
so let's turn the tables, name any GREAT match Rhino has had since coming to ROH, hell name me one match in his career that was great!
he's simply not a good wrestler, especially not in a promotion that supposedly features the best wrestling on the planet
He JUST named a bunch of good-great matches Rhino had since coming to ROH.WTH?Did you even read his post?And as far as in his CAREER goes, his Street Fight with Christian at BFG '06, the Monster's Ball match from BFG '05, his match with Raven from Unbreakable, his triple threat against Samoa Joe and Monty Brown, and recently, him and Elgin vs. The Briscoes just to name a few.
Jeremy wrote:I don't have any problems with Rhino getting a title match, be it on TV or a house show.But why use the PPV as a platform to show you have a former ECW champion (Which was eleven years ago, it's honestly not as relevant as what some think) and a WWE midcarder instead of showcasing one of your own guys?

Rhino doesn't NEED the ROH title, or be in competition for it. He's fine as a special attraction. I have no problem with him in that regard, but why is he now fighting for your top title on one of your biggest shows of the year? It only succeeds in making the fed look like yet another local indy trying to capitalize on a former "big name" to sell tickets. Does Rhino really sell THAT many more tickets and is still that big of a draw years after his last major run to warrant such a high-profile title match?
But Eddie Kingston, who's the CURRENT champion of another promotion entirely, main eventing a ippv is ok?

Your right, Rhino doesn't need the ROH title but imagine what it's going to do for Steen and the ROH title if Steen beats him.As much as people on this forum hate to admit it, Rhino is a bigger star than ANYONE on the ROH has ever been and beating him will be a bigger accomplish for Steen than beating anyone else on the roster.
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JigsawVs.Jason
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

YimYac wrote:
JigsawVs.Jason wrote:Titus is from NJ as well, him being used in a house show main event and Lethal in the iPPV main event would be ideal booking I'd say, you simply need a bigger (by that I mean someone who's good in the ring and can deliver an iPPV worthy main event match) guy like Lethal for such a big show, it's not a random house show and Rhino should never be in the main event of such an important show, he's just an old, boring never-was, who should be used to bring young midcarders over, and definitely not to defeat Eddie and be in an ROH PPV!!

why would Titus get a title shot after the cage match? hmm maybe he pins Steen in the cage match? yeah you're right that would be too logical...
Thing is, both Titus and Jay Briscoe would be bigger opponents for Steen (as in delivering a better match) for DBD X

yes and it would have been much more effective if they had used the four weeks of TV tapings - which they wasted for Rhino - to further the Steen/Titus feud and actually capitalise on the King situation. Which would also be much more ligical, as they have already hinted at Steen/Titus in Milwaukee.

I doubt many fans would bitch more about Strong or Eddie getting the shot at DBD (under the assumption they would have used jobbers like Rhino, Homicide for the past house shows instead of Steen/Eddie and Steen/Roddy) than people are now complaining that one of the biggest shows of the year is headlined by a washed up ECW has-been. Don't bring up Lynn, he's lightyears better than Rhino...

Yes, I'm 100% confident Steen vs Homicide would equal more buyrates, mind elaborating why you scoff at that thought?

You're right, he did not have a downright horrible match, damn I think he could be entertaining jobbing to midcarders in fun 10 minute matches, but he in no shape, way or form should he be anywhere near an ROH main event!

so let's turn the tables, name any GREAT match Rhino has had since coming to ROH, hell name me one match in his career that was great!
he's simply not a good wrestler, especially not in a promotion that supposedly features the best wrestling on the planet

Lethal is definitely not a bigger name than Rhino, and Lethal vs Steen would make more sense in NJ.

Rhino is an old boring never-was? What? The guy who was the last TV and World Champ in ECW, and had a pretty damn good WWE run was a never-was? Sure buddy. Btw Rhino is 36, since when is 36 old? Hell wasn't last Lance Storm 37 when he got his world title shot vs Bryan? Jerry Lynn was way older than 36 during his title shots/reign.

Even by wrestling standards 36 isn't old when a lot of wrestlers keep going well past 45.

Explain to me how Titus is a credible opponent for Steen atm when their angle hasn't even took off yet?

As I said Jay Briscoe is clearly already busy in an angle before he gets to the cage match angle.

Steen vs Homicide would get more buyrates than Rhino vs Steen? I'm fairly sure many fans weren't very happy with Homicide's last world title push vs Roderick. Steen vs Rhino is a match that has never happened and a fresh title defense to give Steen more credibility.

"Name any great match Rhino has had since coming to ROH"

Did you not read me listing off the matches he has had in ROH?

His best matches so far have been Border Wars vs Eddie and the Proving Ground vs Davey. I haven't even seen his other 2 Eddie Edwards matches.

Even his Street Fight vs Homicide was probably his worst match and still very good. After rewatching it, I'd say it was even above average.

Name any matches in his career that were great? You've got to be trolling with such a stupid question.


I'm sorry you can't see it and just want to mindlessly complain, Rhino is currently the only viable challenger for Steen. So feel free to miss a great match and not buy the PPV. I've already detailed why no other challenger currently makes sense.

Btw it's clear they're building up an angle with Lethal vs Steen at TV. Lethal low-blowed Matt Taven to prove to Cornette he has killer instincts to beat Steen.

Gee, it almost sounds like *gasp* THEY'RE SAVING THE MATCH TO BUILD UP TO IT. But nah just give Lethal a throwaway title shot at DBD
I never said Lethal was a bigger name, he's the bigger opponent as in he would deliver a much better, main event worthy match than Rhino?! I'm sorry I want to see the best wrestlers challenging for the titles and not the bigger names :roll:

Titus made the save for the Briscoes at the last house show, they will face off in the cage and they could have easily booked the TV tapings accordingly to build up a match at DBD X

Of course Homicide did not live up to expectations, but he still is far and away the better wrestler than Rhino. Not only that but he's one of the biggest legends in ROH, while Rhino was a midcarder in bigger leagues. You're right that casual fans would probably be more intrigued by Rhino vs Steen, as they might know Rhino from his ECW days or WWE. But you honestly believe those people are the target audience who actually buy the iPPVs? Of course not, the majority of people buying the iPPVs are die hard indy fans and have been fans of ROH for ages. You want to tell me those people will be more inclined to buy the iPPV with Rhino in the main event as compared to an ROH legend?

And just to make this clear, I would not complain one bit, if Rhino was booked in a title match on the TV show or a normal house show somewhere in the midcard, but in the main event of one of the biggest shows of the year??!! That is just pathetic and I'm pretty sure if they do not add another must-see match (since the tag tournament is a disappointment too IMO) the buyrates for this show will be horrendous.

Why didn't they turn around the title matches, have Steen vs Kingston which is a dream match of sorts, a champion vs champion match at DBD X and the more or less irrelevant Steen vs Rhino at Boiling Point? I cannot accept the fact an ECW has-been is main eventing one of the biggest shows of the year, when two of the best wrestlers on the planet, Strong and Edwards, did get their shot at a normal house show. If they would have switched things around, I'd be not complaining as much as I am.

That is what you call a GREAT match, to me personally none of those matches transcended the GOOD match demarcation, but ok to each his own. His best match vs Eddie I had at *** and I don't know about you, but that's not a great match ;)

And yes I was not trolling with that comment, name me one Rhino match that was considered by the majority of fans to be better than ****? Don't get me wrong, Rhino is an entertaining midcard guy, I like his 10 minute matches, but he's simply not main event material, and why on earth should he be main eventing an ROH show, which supposedly stands for the best wrestling in the business, I could name you 10 names on the current roster who are better wrestlers and more apt to deliver a main event worthy match.

You definitely got a wrong impression of me, I love that company, but the booking decisions as of late are absolutely unacceptable to me, it's getting worse and worse and that's after delivering one of the best PPVs they have ever done (Best in the World).

You know what, I just won't buy the iPPV and see what happens, I could even imagine Steen vs Rhino could be a fun match (if it's a No DQ match, as Rhino is not good enough a wrestler to have a great wrestling match) but if Cornette and ROH officials believe they can sell this PPV with that match, make it its main selling point they're in for a huge disappointment. Only chance they got is they can get Davey and O'Reilly and book a match between them at DBD X, that's the only way they can somehow make this iPPV intriguing enough to warrant a purchase

yeah good idea, save the Lethal match for a house show or that mini-PPV, who cares DBD is one of the biggest shows of the year, seriously what the hell are you thinking?
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YimYac
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by YimYac »

Alright there is clearly no point in arguing with JigsawvsJason

His arguments have been debunked not only by me but other posters but still stands by them for some reason.

I'll be enjoying a great PPV Main Event come September.

Great comedian Ron White said it best when it comes to arguments like this.
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but your arguments cannot change my opinion about this, I still consider this lazy, terrible booking. But if you can enjoy the PPV and the main event, then more power to you, I never intended to spoil your wrestling experience.
I still believe it's a horrible decision (and apparently I am not alone), and you like it, to each his own. End of the argument ;)
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by Mr. Orange »

The only thing you could do here is vote with your wallets. Me personally, I won't be buying DBDX. I have been a Ring of Honor fan for quite some time now and I really feel kind of saddened to see Steen vs. Rhino in the main event of DBDX. I don't think ROH should try to get more buyrates from using people that use to wrestle for the WWE. I think they would have a better shot at using guys from CHIKARA, CZW, PWG, and other indys and trying to get there own fans to buy the iPPVs. If they had two or three guys come in from CZW for example, they might get some extra buys from CZW fans who want to see there guys succeed in ROH. Same goes for PWG and CHIKARA.

I really hope after this iPPV they could start turning the booking around and building up some of there own talent because Rhino should not be under any circumstance main eventing this iPPV. Let's hope that Glory by Honor XI looks more appealling.
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by Marketh. »

Mr. Orange wrote:The only thing you could do here is vote with your wallets. Me personally, I won't be buying DBDX.
At least wait until more than 2 matches have been announced. Voting with your wallet is more effective when you know better what it is you're not buying.
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

Marketh. wrote:
Mr. Orange wrote:The only thing you could do here is vote with your wallets. Me personally, I won't be buying DBDX.
At least wait until more than 2 matches have been announced. Voting with your wallet is more effective when you know better what it is you're not buying.
You're probably right, with the TV title match, the ROH Championship and the three tournament matches, there is still some room for 2 or 3 other matches. But if they're not booking a major match like Strong vs Elgin or Davey vs O'Reilly, I'll skip the iPPV and hope we get Elgin vs Steen at the next iPPV in Canada
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by DieHard »

I hope this Lethal's new thing will leads to Lethal vs Edwards which imo could be an awesome match.
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by JigsawVs.Jason »

DieHard wrote:I hope this Lethal's new thing will leads to Lethal vs Edwards which imo could be an awesome match.
That would be great, but I somehow suspect they will do another Bennett/Edwards match at DBD X
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by DieHard »

JigsawVs.Jason wrote:
DieHard wrote:I hope this Lethal's new thing will leads to Lethal vs Edwards which imo could be an awesome match.
That would be great, but I somehow suspect they will do another Bennett/Edwards match at DBD X
It looks like on paper but i hope they are gonna do more like Maria vs SDR, Bennett vs Mondo vs Cole and Edwards vs Lethal.
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Re: Baltimore TV Taping (8/03/12)

Post by ColourMeCurious »

Not too sure on SDR. She will probably be starting her WWE stuff by then.
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