Official Problems with ROH thread.

[fm20000]

Well I've had a lot of things to say myself lately about ROH's faults and so have others. So instead of getting every other thread off topic come here to discuss about any problems with ROH.

Whether it's the roster, iPPV problems or anything. Here's the place to do it.

[syxxpakk]

Production values, easy.

And I'll elaborate. CHIKARA has some amazing hype videos with terrific graphics. ROH should be able to do that at the very least. HD is necessity at some point, but Koff says they're working on it. They need professional web designers for the web site.

[thatwrestlingshow]

What happened to the cool hype vids....

I'm just saying, I really enjoyed making them, the wrestlers really liked them, I'd like to keep making wrestling hype videos somewhere but Sinclair has no interest. I DON'T GET IT. sighhhh, such is life. They were fun.


The main problem with ROH is their overall creative direction, is diving headfirst into a territorial booking scheme and it's taking away everything that makes ROH the cool alternative to its mainstream counterparts. I'm not saying ROH should be as "edgy" as ECW but the booking is too old-school. Yes, it worked 30-40 years ago but culture changes, audience sensibilities change, ROH is stuck in the past when it should be the wave of the future. It's concerning, Steen still captures the spirit, a great flag bearer of an alternative opinion of what "wrestling" should be and what a wrestler looks like but everything else is just, well bland. Honestly with guys like Punk, Danielson and Roode at the top of mainstream wrestling, even the quality of the matches at WWE and TNA rivals ROH, what's ROH's drawing card now? I dunno how they could market their current product to make any mainstream fan want to make the jump. It seems ROH growth has stagnated when just a year or two ago it was at a fever pitch.

[syxxpakk]

They probably did away with them because of the spelling errors

Just jokes, nothing serious meant.

[Duke of Bridgewater]

I don't think it's a good idea to discuss different problems, like "production values" and "creative direction", in a single thread.
If you don't just want to shout out what you don't like, but have a real exchange of points with other fans, it's better to have one thread for each problem.

[syxxpakk]

That could clog the boards up with threads, though. I think this is a suitable idea. Another problem I have currently is rampant use of match names. "Ringmaster's Challenge," "La Revancha," etc. It all seems silly and on-the-nose. It's like we have this great stuff here but someone, likely Cornette, feels a need to overcompensate and add these silly names which don't actually draw any money or anything.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

One thing I don't get, why are they putting up a lot of the new DVDs up as exlusive content for the ringside members, rather than uploading old shows that the fans are dying to see?
In the last couple of days they'va uploaded Survival of the fittest 2011, and to me that's a pretty dumb decision. On the one hand, less people will buy the SOTF 11 DVD and on the other hand, the fans will be disappointed, because they expect some of the OOP shows to be made available via the ringside membership-

[syxxpakk]

Great point.

[Jeremy]

This could be a long, long rant filled thread.

I'll start slowly and say the nicknames are abysmal. "Technical Lightning"? "Zombie Princess"? "Hostage Crisis"? I can't believe they actually thought those names were good. Say them aloud; It sounds laughable.

Second point: There's no dynamic between anybody. You either have fighting face who respects the code and likes competition. On the flipside there's the arrogant heel who feels the code is moronic and beneath them. No personality, no character, no dynamic, no nothing. It's as black and white as you can get in this age of wrestling. I'm sorry; calling a terrible worker "The Prodigy" doesn't suddenly doesn't hide his awful wrestling abilities or give him any sort of a gimmick to separate him from the roster.

[fm20000]

These guys have either been lost to WWE/TNA or given up for no reason since 2010

Austin Aries
Christopher Daniels
Kings of Wrestling (Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli)
Colt Cabana
Tyler Black
Kenny Omega
Super Smash Bros
Dark City Fight Club
Sami Callihan
El Generico
TJP
Young Bucks

The last three will probably come back at some point but you could literally build a full company around the guys ROH have lost/given up in the past few years and it would have a better roster than ROH has right now. And only 4 of those talents have left for WWE/TNA out of 16.

And who have we gotten to make up for it?

Mike Bennett
WGTT
Caprice/Alexander
Jay Lethal
Michael Elgin
Mike Mondo
Tommaso Ciampa

Look at the first list I posted and then this one. Almost everyone on that first list outside of DCFC and TJP are main eventing indys, have a WWE contract, or have a significant role in TNA. On the second list WGTT, Elgin, and Lethal are the only ones who could do that.

This is the problem with ROH. The roster has literally died and they've just relied on who's left and a few new guys to carry the whole company. Until this improves ROH isn't getting any better.

[syxxpakk]

Well first off, to be fair, five of those 16 are in TNA/WWE. Colt Cabana apparently wasn't offered enough money, which is werid because he should have been offered more if necessary. I think Omega left of his own accord and no amount of money/bookings would change that, but I'm not certain. SSB and Callihan weren't in ROH long enough to be considered full-on roster members, IMO. Glad to see DCFC finally getting some love though! I remember in '09-'10 those guys were not very well received (same as WGTT today, come to think of it). And as mentioned, we'll probably see those last three back in ROH soon.

Now, as for the guys you listed currently. Of them, I really enjoy WGTT, C&C Wrestling Factory, Michael Elgin, and Tommasso Ciampa. And I would take ANY of them over TJP any day of the week, to be honest, but that's just me. Mike Bennett and Mike Mondo have grown on me, especially Mondo's last match with Adam Cole (who you neglected to mention, by the way - same as neglecting Kyle O'Reilly). In fact, of that list the one I like the least is Jay Lethal. He's a solid worker and he belongs in the mid-card, not as an uppercarder. His finisher is ridiculously stupid and his promos are pretty piss poor - in fact if not for the Young Bucks or Kyle O'Reilly, I would say his are the worst in the company. C'est la vie.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

I agree and unfortunately ROH officials believe they can compensate that by bringin in former WWE guys for a couple of shows, when they should do all they can to sign the available indy talent before Gabe contracts them! Roster is numer 1 issue at the moment, and the most infuriating of it all: with the roster being already terribly thin they are not booking guys like Generico, Bucks, TJP over the Summer, this has to change, and really soon or they will have a major problem. Very soon there will be no new match-ups left if they keep the roster as thin as it is. They really need to at least book top indy guys, I know it's hard to actually sign them, but booking them to freshen up the cards (these cards nowadays are pretty much all the same due to the small roster) is imperative!

[syxxpakk]

I think the idea behind the ex-WWE guys is to pull in new fans, which is of course something ROH has to do regardless. I keep bringing it up, because it's worth mentioning, but there's a promotion in New York that consistently draws 1500+ using ex-WWE guys, so this idea isn't really that outrageous. It's not what ROH has traditionally done in the past, which is where I think most of you have a problem with it.

[Marketh.]

These guys have either been lost to WWE/TNA or given up for no reason since 2010

Austin Aries
Christopher Daniels
Kings of Wrestling (Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli)
Colt Cabana
Tyler Black
Kenny Omega
Super Smash Bros
Dark City Fight Club
Sami Callihan
El Generico
TJP
Young Bucks

I'll take Elgin over the guys in bold.

[ROHFanAnthony]

I think the idea behind the ex-WWE guys is to pull in new fans, which is of course something ROH has to do regardless. I keep bringing it up, because it's worth mentioning, but there's a promotion in New York that consistently draws 1500+ using ex-WWE guys, so this idea isn't really that outrageous. It's not what ROH has traditionally done in the past, which is where I think most of you have a problem with it.

What promotion in NY is this? Northeast Wrestling? I'm going to their August 4 show which will have Hulk Hogan on the card.

[syxxpakk]

That might be it, Anthony. In fact, looking at the poster on their web site - that probably IS it. Have you been to them before? Do they use a lot of ex-WWE stars?

[ROHWorld_Jon]

Kenny Omega
Super Smash Bros
Dark City Fight Club
Sami Callihan

It was a mistake not keeping those guys. I didn't include many of the others on the list as they mostly went to TNA or WWE. These wrestlers are still in the indies for the most part, except for Omega who competes mostly in Japan if I'm not mistaken. But the Super Smash Bros and the Dark City Fight Club would add so much to the current tag team division. And Callihan is awesome, and I would love to see him compete against so many members of the current roster. That right there would improve the roster so much by itself, not to mention other wrestlers they could bring in.

[ROHFanAnthony]

That might be it, Anthony. In fact, looking at the poster on their web site - that probably IS it. Have you been to them before? Do they use a lot of ex-WWE stars?

I've never been to an event before, but I know of them. I know they used Ultimate Warrior in the past so that likely drew decently.

[ROHWorld_Steven]

Regarding Callihan: He was pretty average during his run in ROH during 2010. It's only the past 12 months or so that he's really got people talking. Unfortunately, he's now under contract with Gabe.

[syxxpakk]

That might be it, Anthony. In fact, looking at the poster on their web site - that probably IS it. Have you been to them before? Do they use a lot of ex-WWE stars?

I've never been to an event before, but I know of them. I know they used Ultimate Warrior in the past so that likely drew decently.

That's probably them. I read in the Observer that these guys draw 1500+ pretty consistently, which would make them the highest drawing indy in America. They do it with all ex-WWE guys, pretty much.