Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 6077
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:53 pm
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by supersonic » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:52 pm

Man Up – September 15, 2007
Taped from Chicago, IL

Image

Man Up (PPV) – Aired November 30, 2007

The broadcast wastes no time as Naomichi Marufuji is in the ring already for the opener.

ROH Title Shot Match
Chris Hero vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Naomichi Marufuji vs. Claudio Castagnoli


McGuinness says he’s keeping a close eye on tonight’s rematch between Takeshi Morishima and Bryan Danielson. Way to telegraph the booking here.

The commentators are interrupted by a masked man with a raspy voice screaming “Age of the Fall!” Before the opener starts, an intro package features highlights from the Driven 2007 PPV.

Claudio Castagnoli’s pre-match promo isn’t interesting at all, continuing the program against Sweet ‘N Sour Inc. that should’ve been aborted before it even began. At least Larry Sweeney is entertaining on the microphone and he’s over.

This match would’ve been best served as a free-for-all, and perhaps even as a final chapter in the Hero vs. Castagnoli program since a good chunk of the match focused on it. (In hindsight since it was pushed on PPV but not quite clicking, end the program with Castagnoli beating Hero and Sweeney in separate matches at the next PPV taping.) When the two of them went to the outside, referee Todd Sinclair forgot about tag legalities despite Lenny Leonard specifically stating on commentary that tags were necessary, but he covered for the bad officiating by pointing out Sinclair chose to go with relaxed rules.

From a business perspective, the biggest missed opportunity was the failure to mention the classic, historically important on many levels GHC Heavyweight Title encounter that had taken place just 364 days earlier between McGuinness and Marufuji. What they showed here was a nice sample of what had taken place at the prior year’s epic September event, and yet potentially new audiences watching this PPV would have no idea about Glory By Honor V Night 2; this is a very fair criticism since Danielson and KENTA’s match from that same card was talked about in the PPV main event of Respect is Earned.

To nobody’s surprise, McGuinness picked up the victory after cleaning house, though it was mildly surprising for Castagnoli to do the job instead of Hero, as this would’ve served as a decent finish to the lukewarm Hero vs. McGuinness program. The finish was definitely perfect, McGuinness using the momentum from eating Castagnoli’s springboard twisting uppercut to deliver a decisive rebound lariat. So the next PPV is either Morishima vs. McGuinness III or Danielson vs. McGuinness VI, and it’s nice for McGuinness to no longer being on the creative treadmill that he’s been on for months either without direction or just a lukewarm one (his program against Hero.)

Rating: ***

In a career highlight promo that defines much of his life and has much greater meaning a decade later, an eyepatch-sporting Danielson points out that the injuries are really starting to take an emotional toll on his family, but his father said that this is his dream so to keep pursuing it. Since he’s not the ROH Champion, he acknowledges that he’s not the best wrestler in the world anymore, but against Morishima tonight he will show he has the most heart of anyone in the sport. Terrific promo here that matches up with Danielson’s far more celebrated ones in WWE.

The Resilience and No Remorse Corps meet for a Best of 3 singles matches series. The NRC won the coin flip so the Resilience must pick their representative first.

Matt Cross vs. Rocky Romero

Good showcase for Cross here as he displayed his gymnastics background and got plenty of counters on the more experienced Romero, but once Romero got one kick to the head, that was the ballgame.

Roderick Strong pretends to be next to goad Austin Aries into being next, but Davey Richards is the opponent in a swerve.

Davey Richards vs. Austin Aries

Extremely superior to their first ROH encounter exactly one year prior to this, and much more heated and interesting than the rematch that was supposed to be a landmark Richards victory at Dethroned. This did far more to put Richards over as he shined more in this match than the already established Aries. He had the former ROH Champion scouted very well, evading almost every major trademark move of his until Aries had the opportunity to hit a suicide dive.

Richards would still control most of the match, specifically blocking a kick to the head to not be prone to the brainbuster and 450 Splash combo of Aries. But Aries ensured not to fall prey to the Butterfly Driver, finally turning it into a backslide and using the little opportunity possible to pull out his finishing sequence for the victory.

Rating: ***3/4

Erick Stevens vs. Roderick Strong

An excellent showcase for Stevens to complete the obvious point of this series: the established stars of the original Reborn era go over, but the newer talents in each match are showcased. After dominating early here, Stevens find himself still shining by selling mostly underneath the rest of the way, busting out numerous spectacular power moves against the established powerhouse Strong, giving the NRC leader a taste of his own medicine that only the likes of Shingo, Joe, and Morishima could’ve done before.

That it was such a struggle for the cocky Strong to pull out the victory here was monumental in Stevens earning Chicago’s support, just like he’d done the night before in Detroit against Morishima. A Super Tiger Driver would be blocked by Stevens, being turned into a Super Power Slam for an excellent near fall that would’ve been a very satisfying upset finish; there’s an argument that perhaps Stevens, for all of his glaring flaws, should’ve just gone over here, especially with a thrown-in stipulation that this would be the end of the program. Doing so also would’ve creatively established that Aries proved he could successfully form and lead another faction, rather than just take over one like he had done over Alex Shelley at Final Battle 2004.

But Stevens still came out of this with his stock raised, being beaten to a pulp to fall prey to a Super Release Splash Mountain Powerbomb, followed by a standard Tiger Driver. Perhaps the best test to see if Stevens can sustain the momentum of this breakout weekend would be to just feud against Strong without anyone else involved, as it’d also keep Strong busy once Aries has a conclusive match against his former stablemate too.

Rating: ****

The formation of the Hangmen Three at the expense of Delirious is shown from Caged Rage. I have a theory now: perhaps booker Gabe Sapolsky knowingly, intentionally formed this totally useless, humdrum faction as a means to make other weak stables such as the Resilience and Vulture Squad shine in comparison. As burned out as he was, he couldn’t have possibly been blind to just how much of a black eye this was serving for the ROH brand to a potential new audience on PPV. In fact, with this direction being featured on PPV, it’s astonishing in hindsight that this or something from TNA failed to win the Worst Feud of the Year in the Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards instead of it being crowned upon the perversely entertaining Kane vs. Big Daddy V. This whole saga had zero enjoyment value from any kind of perspective.

ROH Title Match
Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson

Although Danielson had just gotten a title shot 3 weeks earlier, he had earned that thanks to his cream-of-the-crop reign; this was earned by defeating McGuinness on the Driven 2007 PPV.

Danielson dominated this match surprisingly, compensating for his injury with a focused, furious quest for vengeance over his eye injury. Morishima seemed unprepared for Danielson’s onslaught, eating various strikes and submissions, including elbows to the head, Triangle Chokes, Super Backdrop Suplex, Tiger Suplex, and Cattle Mutilation.

Chicago was in awe at Danielson’s dominance here over the monstrous champion, each big move and submission hold gaining more drama as the match went along. Even when Morishima blocked a schoolboy pin attempt to finally sit his fat ass down on Danielson, it wasn’t enough to stop the challenger’s relentless pursuit. Morishima would have to his size and dig down deep into his obviously inferior cardio while locked in a second triangle choke, lifting Danielson up for a one-armed powerbomb.

Danielson would come back for more, but once Morishima was able to block a forearm charge, that was enough to hit a lariat and backdrop driver. However, Morishima had poor ring positioning, allowing Danielson to be close enough to get his foot on the bottom rope in another piece of excellent drama. To nobody’s surprise, Morishima became frustrated and broke his vow, removing Danielson’s eyepatch and gaining the victory by targeting the injury and striking Danielson’s head repeatedly, causing the referee to call the match in favor of the champion much to Chicago’s disapproval.

Another excellent match on this PPV and worthy follow-up to the acclaimed first match just 3 weeks earlier. This is perhaps the greatest example of what an encounter against Brock Lesnar would’ve been like for Danielson; surprise the monster with absolute fury to destabilize him, get relentless with a number of strikes and submissions, and hope that it’s enough to gain the upset. It’s definitely obvious not just from a booking perspective, but from a kayfabe perspective, that Morishima’s days as champion are numbered after having his most grueling defenses against Danielson, Castagnoli, and Brent Albright in recent weeks. He had to break a competitive vow and is showing very clear signs of fatigue, including poor cardio against much smaller, more driver opponents, and poor ring positioning as well. The writing is on the wall for McGuinness to finally get the job done. And of course, the Morishima vs. Danielson saga is far from finished.

Rating: ****1/4

Tag Titles – Ladder Match
Briscoe Bros. vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico


Getting the obvious out of the way: the opening crowd brawling had an absolutely ludicrous amount of unprotected chair shots, ESPECIALLY with Chris Nowinski shortly before this revealing that Chris Benoit had severe brain damage that had aged twice as fast as it should’ve been at the time of his death. It’s actually MORE realistic in a fight for someone to put their arms and hands up anyway to protect their heads and faces, so these guys along with those who paved this kind of shit for them such as Mick Foley, were always sadly mistaken.

The dangerous bumps on the ladders, including a Package Piledriver and Butterfly Piledriver, didn’t appear to be dangerous for the head and neck, but mainly just for those taking the back bumps on the ladders. The same can be said for the unforgettable Beal that the champs forced Generico to take, a true highlight in this all-time classic that had Chicago going insane.

From a purely entertainment perspective, the only dynamic missing from this brawl, and it’s an arguable nitpick, is that Jay and Steen never took a moment to viscerally talk shit to each other. Perhaps that would be unrealistic with the amount of brutality endured in this appropriately marketed “Ladder War,” but it was noticeable when factoring how much of a factor Steen’s mouth had played in all the months leading up to this piece of history, not just in promos, but during the actual in-ring battles.

Steen deserves major kudos for saving the conclusion of the match, climbing back up since so much time had passed while Jay struggled to remove the belts. Steen had nothing left, but it was only logical that his character would’ve used the last pitiful amount of energy possible to prevent the inevitable, which was that he had started a fight, and now he and his best friend were gonna lose it. This ending could’ve been a very glaring black eye, much like Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon at SummerSlam 1995.

Other chaotic highlights in this match include Mark hitting a Shooting Star Press on the ladder and landing spectacularly in a way that hurt himself, Jay being shoved back-first onto a previously breaking ladder to break it even more (this particular piece of furniture actually looked like it was designed to give in and protect these men, which is a good thing if that’s the case,) and Jay calling for the maintenance ladder to bring in the ring in the last few minutes of the match, causing another Windy City eruption. The Doomsday Device that saw Mark jump underneath the maintenance ladder must also be mentioned, an amazing “special effect” as Generico would call such highspots years later when he appeared on Talk is Jericho.

This definitely lived up to the hype of being the company’s first-ever official ladder match, completely blowing away the closing thing to one 5 years earlier between Paul London and Michael Shane at Unscripted, which also drew “Match of the Year” chants from the live crowd. But this never let up, belonging in the conversation with the HBK vs. Razor series as well as the Rock vs. Triple H and the trilogy involving the Dudleyz, Hardyz, and Edge & Christian several years earlier. This was a car crash from start to finish that blew the roof off the Frontier Fieldhouse, and set a bar so high that the company would not host a ladder match that could come close to it for another 9 years.

Undoubtedly, this is the feud of the year, and I’m sad to see it end. I’ve zero faith that the obvious McGuinness era on the horizon will creatively carry this creatively decaying company like this program did. But maybe Steen pie-facing Generico is a sign that they’re gonna actually break up and feud? While it may seem a bit too soon, one cannot argue that it’s reliable enough to carry the company and make up for Sapolsky’s creative collapse. It also ensured that both have something substantial coming out of this direction.

The same cannot be said for the Briscoes in the post-match though. Project 161 finally gets revealed when a bunch of masked unknowns appear in the front rows donned in black, providing a distraction for the debuting Tyler Black to arrive along with Lacey & Jimmy Jacobs, who are then joined moments later by the returning Necro Butcher! (In hindsight, what a missed opportunity in 2006 for Jacobs & Necro not to have some kind of loose alliance when they simultaneously feuded with BJ Whitmer.)

Necro sticks out like a sore thumb visually, but the PPV quickly ends. The rest of the segment is in the bonus features, and it’s incredibly cringe-worthy. Jay is hung upside down and lifted while his head is bleeding, and Jacobs cuts an overall ineffective promo as the blood falls on him. Jacobs says that Lacey’s love failed to save him and rid his misery, and that nothing ever will. He shits on the fans for supporting the obnoxious drunkard Briscoes (I’m sure the PWG Six would agree with that sentiment after what happened the day of Giant Size Annual #4) and wants the power in the company, so the newfound Age of the Fall will be coming for the Briscoes.

Based on his verbiage, Jacobs did a good job explaining why he recruited Necro, as both are outcasts in their own way. As for Black, he described as a lost potential superstar. That could make sense when considering that Black is in his early 20s, but the fact that Jacobs gloats about all his obvious strengths doesn’t really fit the outcast shtick that Jacobs is going for.

Some mark in the front row gets under Jay’s skin afterward, but the Briscoes leave with the belts, proud of vanquishing their 2007 archenemies and ready for the new Age of the Fall challenge.

Rating: ****3/4 (for everything prior to the Age of the Fall segment)

BONUS MATCHES

Amazing Kong’s ROH Debut
Lacey & Sara Del Rey vs. Amazing Kong & Daizee Haze


Impressive debut for Kong here and the Chicago crowd’s enthusiasm certainly helped. As expected, Haze played the FIP, getting double-teamed until finally getting the hot tag on Kong, who played a role similar to Samoa Joe but with far more outward facial expressions. It was a surprise that since Del Rey would soon be defending the Shimmer title against Kong, that Haze got the victorious pin on Lacey. Nobody cared about the Lacey vs. Haze program, so this ample opportunity to throw a bone towards Dave Prazak’s promotion and build up one of his matches.

Rating: ***

How remarkable, BJ Whitmer got a haircut and dyed his hair blonde to look like Ken Anderson. That’ll save the Hangmen Three saga.

Tyler Black’s ROH Debut Match
Jack Evans vs. Tyler Black


Very simple match. Black sneaks from behind to dominate at first, Evans makes a comeback. Necro & Jacobs appear to attack Evans and the match is called off, then Irish Airborne makes the saves. Zero interest in this impromptu trios match, but Black looks just fine in this federation. Good for AOTF winning their first match together too.

Matt Sydal’s ROH Farewell
Delirious vs. Matt Sydal


These two are getting in-ring introductions to signify the importance of this rivalry ending. It’s truly the end of an era for the 2 that debuted against each other at Reborn Stage 1. Sydal gets incredibly treatment from Chicago despite going out as an SNS heel. To sell the sentimental value of this, Delirious opts not to go crazy at first, instead wanting a handshake for this final chapter. But Sydal takes a cheap shot. Perfect.

This was a fitting end to the rivalry but couldn’t touch their 2/3 falls match earlier in the year. With that said, this was everything expected, all the crisp moves and counters of these 2 archrivals, and Larry Sweeney going postal when he thought Todd Sinclair counted too slow. He was probably still mad from eating a Senton by Delirious too.

Delirious won which made sense, but Sydal took a head drop late in the match via a Cobra Clutch Suplex, and that must have led to his concussion as reported by the Wrestling Observer the following day. The crowd gave him a great ovation as he left, but with the news the following day, it’s understandable that he couldn’t provide a farewell speech. One can only imagine the whirlwind it had been for him, as he had come a long way in the past year, just had a show-stealing match in PWG against Alex Shelley, and had even been in the American Bank Center to get the news about the Benoit family tragedy along with the WWE roster on what was supposed to be a tryout for him.

Rating: ***1/4

Easiest recommendation possible thanks to 3 tremendous matches, including a historic all-time feud-ending ladder match and another classic performance from Danielson, plus Sydal’s farewell to bring his rivalry with Delirious to a close. This really marks the finale of Sapolsky having any positive creativity to offer the company, going from the Feud of the Year to one of the most disappointing starts to a faction and program I’ve ever seen immediately afterwards. Not exactly the post-match from Cage of Death.

Of course, this would turn out to not be the end for Sydal in ROH, so assuming 2017 is still the end for him a decade from now, that’s when his ROH career can truly be chronicled. But his initial 3-year run is something to be proud of and worthy of its own compilation. So many quality tag matches with different partners, so many great trios and 8-man tags, so many entertaining promos both good and bad, so many quality singles encounters against AJ Styles, Claudio Castagnoli, Austin Aries, Christopher Daniels, and Jimmy Rave, just to name a few, plus the rivalry against Delirious that bookended this run for him.

As mentioned earlier, an era is on the horizon that should’ve already started several months back in Liverpool. We’ll see how it holds up, plus there’s a lazy excuse for a creative shakeup too! But the good news – one of the greatest rivalries in underground wrestling history returns!

Up next – Honor Nation
Matches will include:
Austin Aries vs. Bryan Danielson
Vulture Squad vs. No Remorse Corps
Takeshi Morishima vs. Kevin Steen

Big Red Machine
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by Big Red Machine » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:51 pm

I'm sorry... did you just refer to Jimmy's promo in the AOTF debut "ineffective?" Did we watch the same promo? He cut a big, dramatic promo in which he explained what his new group is about, why everyone is in it, why they specifically targeted the guys they targeted in their debut, and how he got from his post-winning Lacey's love happiness to he man we see today, purposely allowing himself to be drenched in another man's dripping blood. What was ineffective about it?

User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 6077
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:53 pm
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by supersonic » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:35 pm

It alienated much of the live crowd, including casuals and newbies. It came across as incredibly second-rate and jumping the shark, a huge reach in an attempt to be edgy. Black’s inclusion also didn’t fit the group’s “collection of rejects” shtick.

If that’s not enough, there were also “boring” chants. Before you go for the heel heat excuse, reflect back the Summer of Punk turn promo that had everyone hooked and either applauding its creative excellence or biting to boo him for being so narcissistic. THAT was an effective post-match microphone segment.

I believe there were better paths to take with kicking off this part of the Jacobs journey. There’s a very big missed creative opportunity in hindsight that should’ve been a no-brainer at the time. I will go over that later this year in a Rebooking ROH 2007 podcast.

Big Red Machine
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:13 am

supersonic wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:35 pm
It alienated much of the live crowd, including casuals and newbies. It came across as incredibly second-rate and jumping the shark, a huge reach in an attempt to be edgy. Black’s inclusion also didn’t fit the group’s “collection of rejects” shtick.

If that’s not enough, there were also “boring” chants. Before you go for the heel heat excuse, reflect back the Summer of Punk turn promo that had everyone hooked and either applauding its creative excellence or biting to boo him for being so narcissistic. THAT was an effective post-match microphone segment.

I believe there were better paths to take with kicking off this part of the Jacobs journey. There’s a very big missed creative opportunity in hindsight that should’ve been a no-brainer at the time. I will go over that later this year in a Rebooking ROH 2007 podcast.
Black was there because he was a believer in their cause and someone Jacobs trusted implicitly. The group was never about being rejects. It was about preaching and affecting change. Not rejecting people for being weird/ugly was part of that, but so was everything else they talked about (for example, Lacey's promos on the treatment of women).

Just because a few assholes in the crowd find it boring doens't mean it didn't work. I remember reading it getting near-universal praise, and you are literally the first person I've ever seen bury it like this.

User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 6077
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:53 pm
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by supersonic » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:33 am

Get outside the ROHbot bubble and you’ll easily find many who got pushed away at the time, with that direction playing a part. Hanging someone upside down while bleeding also didn’t help. Please avoid falling for the appeal to popularity fallacy as well, especially for the business reasons I’ll be mentioning below.

Black had no reason to ever care about the cause either. Perhaps had their been a deeper story to explain his loyalty such as Jacobs helping him get his break in WSX and PWG, that could’ve overcome him being an odd fit based on his glowing attributes. The Briscoes program was very muddled and turned out to not be a box office draw as well, ending a year later in forgettable fashion as Sapolsky was unknowingly preparing his pink slip. Metrics were down across the board - DVD sales slipped, matchups became repetitive without the properly nuanced storytelling journey, and then PPV got dropped. Silkin was bleeding money because Sapolsky failed to generate the expected consumer income. This angle played a large part in that and did so long before it petered out.

Lastly, I’ll also point to the PPVs never getting the same level of overwhelming buzz after this point; not a coincidence that happens after the AOTF formation. (The buzz a year later for their title loss was only because of the match quality and it being the Steen & Generico moment, but the right peak time for that had passed as proven by Sapolsky’s termination a month later. That fact also makes me question if Driven 2008 was a decent draw on PPV, which the mentioned cancellation that came into 2009 would indicate that as unlikely.)

Big Red Machine
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:21 pm

supersonic wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:33 am
Get outside the ROHbot bubble and you’ll easily find many who got pushed away at the time, with that direction playing a part. Hanging someone upside down while bleeding also didn’t help. Please avoid falling for the appeal to popularity fallacy as well, especially for the business reasons I’ll be mentioning below.

Black had no reason to ever care about the cause either. Perhaps had their been a deeper story to explain his loyalty such as Jacobs helping him get his break in WSX and PWG, that could’ve overcome him being an odd fit based on his glowing attributes. The Briscoes program was very muddled and turned out to not be a box office draw as well, ending a year later in forgettable fashion as Sapolsky was unknowingly preparing his pink slip. Metrics were down across the board - DVD sales slipped, matchups became repetitive without the properly nuanced storytelling journey, and then PPV got dropped. Silkin was bleeding money because Sapolsky failed to generate the expected consumer income. This angle played a large part in that and did so long before it petered out.

Lastly, I’ll also point to the PPVs never getting the same level of overwhelming buzz after this point; not a coincidence that happens after the AOTF formation. (The buzz a year later for their title loss was only because of the match quality and it being the Steen & Generico moment, but the right peak time for that had passed as proven by Sapolsky’s termination a month later. That fact also makes me question if Driven 2008 was a decent draw on PPV, which the mentioned cancellation that came into 2009 would indicate that as unlikely.)
I thought the old official ROH forum had a pretty good mix of opinions. It certainly wasn't a TNA Mecca-esque place. I have also never encountered anyone on any other forum who felt that the AOTF debut didn't work. I've heard complaints about the hanging being unsafe, but no one has ever told me that that was a contributing factor to them leaving the product.
As for Tyler, I don't understand how you can say that he didn't have a reason to believe in the cause. The basis of his character was that he was a believer in the cause. Just because he didn't have some obvious personal gripe doesn’t mean he can't believe in the cause. I’m 100% straight and I’m a passionate supporter of LGBT rights, and have seen since before I met anyone who was openly LGBT.
Yes, the feud with the Briscoes didn’t end well and went too long and things started to go downhill, but that didn’t really start being the case until the second half of 2008. Leaving aside the fact that blaming that solely on this one angle is somewhere between silly and baseless, the fact that bombed the end of the AOTF vs. Briscoes feud does not in any way mean that the segment that began that feud was ineffective.
The buzz for the PPVs going down after this had a hell of a lot factors involved, including, most obviously, the novelty wearing off and the cards being weaker, and while the cards being weaker (in most cases, but certainly for the next two) is mostly Gabe’s fault, that doesn’t mean that it was due to the Age of the Fall specifically, and certainly not to this moment.

User avatar
supersonic
Posts: 6077
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:53 pm
Location: Edgar Martinez Dr S
Contact:

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by supersonic » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:57 pm

If you were only on the ROH forum, then you weren’t getting a fair collection of feedback. The Observer forum brilliantly saw the creative weaknesses by early 2007, which was very jarring for me at the time as I still sipped the Kool-Aid.

I also no longer look at the “common folk” type responses, but instead prefer authoritative pundits that have their fingers on the pulse, such as VoW, Fightful, Mitchell, Martin, Solomonster, etc.

Big Red Machine
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Project Rewatch - ROH: The Good Shit

Post by Big Red Machine » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:20 am

supersonic wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:57 pm
If you were only on the ROH forum, then you weren’t getting a fair collection of feedback. The Observer forum brilliantly saw the creative weaknesses by early 2007, which was very jarring for me at the time as I still sipped the Kool-Aid.

I also no longer look at the “common folk” type responses, but instead prefer authoritative pundits that have their fingers on the pulse, such as VoW, Fightful, Mitchell, Martin, Solomonster, etc.
You know all of those "authoritative pundits" are just people giving their opinions, right? And Solomonster in particular has never been someone whose thoughts have ever come across as "insightful" to me (at least based on his YouTube stuff). And from my experiences on the Observer forum, I have a hard time believing that they have ever seen anything that isn't porn or gimmick/troll accounts.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 5 guests