Marty Scurll & ROH in 2021 - return or not?

[AnHonorableMention]

Im confused by this whole thing. Wasnt the girl of legal age of consent at the time? Not making an excuse here.

Also being 26 years old 14 yearsvago myself, ive dobe a lot of growing up and maturing in that time.

However, i hate his finger break move and was never a huge fan of his ring work.

Legal age of consent, 16, yes. However, intoxication wipes away consent in any situation. It's good he's gone and any company that touches him should be ashamed of itself.

I think we all have done some regrettable things in life, but breaking the law in this manner is not a speeding ticket where you pay the fine and move on. He's now paid with his job. His reputation forever sullied, and it's nice of ROH to dump this in the middle of one of the biggest wrestling weeks of the year. 2 nights of Wrestle Kingdom, Legends Raw, two big Wednesday shows, and nothing for them for weeks aside from a watch party where they can just ignore this story.

[NewROHFan2020]

Whether or not the brand survives, it will be stained. WWE continued to book Jimmy Snuka after he murdered his mistress. It didn't kill WWE, but it's still a permanent stain on them. Same with Vince and his rape accusation, and Patterson and his pedophilia/sexual assault of adult employees. Or Ashley Massaro's situation.

There's a difference between being a "social justice warrior" and not wanting your favorite wrestling company associated with a grown man trying to score with drunk teenage girls.

Dude, nobody cares about that shit. Jimmy Snuka??? They opened up a restaurant in Times Square, launched a football league, and went public with an IPO. That’s some “stain”. They celebrated Chris Beniot’s life and they’re still doing just fine. You’re ridiculous.

Just because you're still making money doesn't mean your legacy isn't permanently damaged. Vince McMahon has spent his entire life trying NOT to be known as a carny scumbag but that's ALL he'll ever be known as, for exactly this reason.

There's no telling what kind of ad rates wrestling would be getting if Vince had conducted himself with the bare minimum standard of basic human decency throughout his career. It's the constant sex, violence, and drug scandals that WWE has been embroiled in since he took over that have held the entire industry back from legitimacy. Right now wrestling shows get roughly 1/10th the ad rates that similarly rated shows get because wrestling and wrestling fans are seen as low class.

Another ridiculous comment. Wrestling doesn’t good ad rates (at least according to you) because Vince is a scumbag and showed Sable’s boobs 20 years ago and Jimmy Snuka murdered his wife 40 years ago? Okay dude, that’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

“Rasslin” probably gets lower ad rates because it’s fake and they have some fans believe that it’s “real”. If you were a company that knew nothing about it and you tune in and see Tessa Blanchard beating men, Rey Mysterio beating guys twice his size, and Sonny Kiss wrestling legit men, you’re going to say that the average person watching has above average intelligence? Has nothing to do with Vince. Wrestling gets a bad rap, and deservedly so at times, but it’s not because of Vince McMahon and Marty Scurll.

[supersonic]

The appeal to legality fallacy could easily be retorted to with this question also.

If he’s willing to do this with a 16 yo due it’s legality there, would he then go for even younger if the age of consent was decreased there?

[NewROHFan2020]

The appeal to legality fallacy could easily be retorted to with this question also.

If he’s willing to do this with a 16 yo due it’s legality there, would he then go for even younger if the age of consent was decreased there?

Not sure what this has to do with his departure or ROH. Does he like Chicken tenders or hot pockets? I wonder if he has ever used coupons at the grocery store?

[supersonic]

It calls into question if his character is defined by what’s legal, rather than having a moral compass that would make him worthy of being in a locker room involving young women, holding positions of power such as booking, and performing in front of audiences that include young women.

Those who continue to shrug off and not condemn Scurll for his actions only further expose the flaws in their own moral character, as well as their desire to be entertained at any cost. As mentioned, if this was truly about giving someone a chance for outdated “guys being guys” behavior, there would also be a thread asking about the much less entertaining Maff hypothetically being welcomed back.

[NewROHFan2020]

It calls into question if his character is defined by what’s legal, rather than having a moral compass that would make him worthy of being in a locker room involving young women, holding positions of power such as booking, and performing in front of audiences that include young women.

Those who continue to shrug off and not condemn Scurll for his actions only further expose the flaws in their own moral character, as well as their desire to be entertained at any cost. As mentioned, if this was truly about giving someone a chance for outdated “guys being guys” behavior, there would also be a thread asking about the much less entertaining Maff hypothetically being welcomed back.

Okay, but you’re asking questions about whether he would bang more younger girls, doesn’t really have anything to do with anything. And nobody but him knows the answer to. You really want to discuss if another grown man is interested in younger girls? Surely you have something better to talk about?

[supersonic]

Discussing the weak moral boundaries that Mr. Scurll shows is exactly why this thread exists. The hypothetical question I presented is valid, as it presents that Scurll will do whatever he wants as long as he can legally get away with it.

I hope that Scurll though will do the right thing for all parties involved (including himself) and let professional wrestling go. But the recent photos taken with other wrestlers don’t indicate that. The last thing he should be concerned with is how quickly he can rebound in the business. Move on and do some serious, extremely painful self-reflection. Right now I’m just seeing him act like Bollea after that racist rant got exposed. There’s the same desire to get back in, the same lack of contrition for the error committed, and quite frankly, lack of complete, utter accountability from both men and many of their fans. (“It was legal there” is equivalent to “that audio was taped without my permission.”)

[AnHonorableMention]

Discussing the weak moral boundaries that Mr. Scurll shows is exactly why this thread exists. The hypothetical question I presented is valid, as it presents that Scurll will do whatever he wants as long as he can legally get away with it.

I hope that Scurll though will do the right thing for all parties involved (including himself) and let professional wrestling go. But the recent photos taken with other wrestlers don’t indicate that. The last thing he should be concerned with is how quickly he can rebound in the business. Move on and do some serious, extremely painful self-reflection. Right now I’m just seeing him act like Bollea after that racist rant got exposed. There’s the same desire to get back in, the same lack of contrition for the error committed, and quite frankly, lack of complete, utter accountability from both men and many of their fans. (“It was legal there” is equivalent to “that audio was taped without my permission.”)

I don't really care for this guy but his first point here is 1000% relevant. What are the limits and boundaries? You cannot employ a person, let alone as a leader, who has proven to have questionable ethics and shown absolutely zero legit actions to show what he did was wrong & immoral to make some sort of psychological growth.

[famicommander]

WWE didn't fire Velveteen Dream so they'd probably be fine with Marty
Impact stuck by some questionable people recently (but at least they got rid of Ryan and Crist)
MLW employed Teddy Hart until his most recent arrest spree and generally seem to take in "problem talents" but not necessarily metoo types
NJPW took in Elgin after his whole thing and don't really seem to care

Somebody is gonna pick up Scurll. Just not ROH, and probably not AEW. The major lucha promotions are probably not in a position to bring in any international stars for the next couple years. I could easily see any of the big 4 in Japan (NJPW, Dragon Gate, CyberFight, AJPW) taking a shot on him.

[AnHonorableMention]

WWE didn't fire Velveteen Dream so they'd probably be fine with Marty
Impact stuck by some questionable people recently (but at least they got rid of Ryan and Crist)
MLW employed Teddy Hart until his most recent arrest spree and generally seem to take in "problem talents" but not necessarily metoo types
NJPW took in Elgin after his whole thing and don't really seem to care

Somebody is gonna pick up Scurll. Just not ROH, and probably not AEW. The major lucha promotions are probably not in a position to bring in any international stars for the next couple years. I could easily see any of the big 4 in Japan (NJPW, Dragon Gate, CyberFight, AJPW) taking a shot on him.

WWE also has Matt Riddle, Drake Younger, Austin Theory, the nazi guy with Elias(no clue what his name is but saw that tonight flipping around), and they have Vince McMahon's desperate need to sign as many people as possible.

[KL_]

For me it's a little sad because I believe 2020 could had been great for ROH under Marty's wings. Of course if it wasn't for Covid and this issue.
A little sad but I understand the decision. And 2021 can still be great for ROH.

[monster mafia]

For me it's a little sad because I believe 2020 could had been great for ROH under Marty's wings. Of course if it wasn't for Covid and this issue.
A little sad but I understand the decision. And 2021 can still be great for ROH.

x2

[AnHonorableMention]

For me it's a little sad because I believe 2020 could had been great for ROH under Marty's wings. Of course if it wasn't for Covid and this issue.
A little sad but I understand the decision. And 2021 can still be great for ROH.

The what could have been thing is really tough in hard times like our world is in right now. I know in some of the therapy I've experienced for depression and addictions, it's best to control what you can control. The ideas of what could have been this past year are just going to create major anxiety for many, myself included. Unfortunately, it could have been worse if Marty ran shows and this stuff popped up. So in a sense to spin this into a positive he was out of the way when he got his just desserts.

[Wavelet Transform]

For me it's a little sad because I believe 2020 could had been great for ROH under Marty's wings. Of course if it wasn't for Covid and this issue.
A little sad but I understand the decision. And 2021 can still be great for ROH.

x2

x3 - Free Enterprise was loads of fun, the 2020 Anniversary and Supercard cards were stacked, and I liked the Past v Present lineup.

I guess it's official that, for better or worse, Delirious is officially running the show for the foreseeable future. I hope it works out, but the track record on bookers reinventing themselves isn't great historically, I don't think.

[famicommander]

For me it's a little sad because I believe 2020 could had been great for ROH under Marty's wings. Of course if it wasn't for Covid and this issue.
A little sad but I understand the decision. And 2021 can still be great for ROH.

x2

x3 - Free Enterprise was loads of fun, the 2020 Anniversary and Supercard cards were stacked, and I liked the Past v Present lineup.

I guess it's official that, for better or worse, Delirious is officially running the show for the foreseeable future. I hope it works out, but the track record on bookers reinventing themselves isn't great historically, I don't think.

It seems to me that Gresham is being groomed to replace Delirious:
-he's the reason the Pure division is back
-he's now the head trainer at the ROH Dojo
-he's been given the book for the women's division reboot
-currently a double champ and leader of a faction

I agree that the canceled pre-COVID cards all looked fantastic, and I wish we had gotten to see them. Especially given what happened to Xavier. However, since the restart ROH has been fantastic anyway. And that's despite having to run months of television without Rush, Dragon Lee, Rey Horus, Bandido, Flamita, Adam Brooks, SLEX, Mark Haskins, and Joe Hendry among others.

Delirious has had his problems as a booker that we've all discussed here ad nauseum. But I have to believe he can understand what has worked about the show since the reboot and at least attempt to build on that process. All the better if people like Gresham and Maria Kanellis have growing influence, all the better.

To me, post-COVID ROH is the best product they've put out in years.

[Wavelet Transform]

x2

x3 - Free Enterprise was loads of fun, the 2020 Anniversary and Supercard cards were stacked, and I liked the Past v Present lineup.

I guess it's official that, for better or worse, Delirious is officially running the show for the foreseeable future. I hope it works out, but the track record on bookers reinventing themselves isn't great historically, I don't think.

It seems to me that Gresham is being groomed to replace Delirious:
-he's the reason the Pure division is back
-he's now the head trainer at the ROH Dojo
-he's been given the book for the women's division reboot
-currently a double champ and leader of a faction

I agree that the canceled pre-COVID cards all looked fantastic, and I wish we had gotten to see them. Especially given what happened to Xavier. However, since the restart ROH has been fantastic anyway. And that's despite having to run months of television without Rush, Dragon Lee, Rey Horus, Bandido, Flamita, Adam Brooks, SLEX, Mark Haskins, and Joe Hendry among others.

Delirious has had his problems as a booker that we've all discussed here ad nauseum. But I have to believe he can understand what has worked about the show since the reboot and at least attempt to build on that process. All the better if people like Gresham and Maria Kanellis have growing influence, all the better.

To me, post-COVID ROH is the best product they've put out in years.

Yeah, the reboot has been very enjoyable and I like the niche they've carved. Roster will be great when talent can come to the States and the prospect of a long-term LFI/Foundation feud is enticing. I think "new blood" is needed in creative, though, and I'd be thrilled with Gresham having a big role in creative.

Should also say I support the decision to oust Marty, as much as I enjoyed his booking in 2020.

[KL_]

I wonder if Delirious is currently using some of Marty's ideas and/or will use when more wrestlers, like Hendry, Haskins, Slex, Adam Brooks etc. will be back.

[KL_]

From Fightfull select:

Fight full select (Subscription required) Many people in ROH report that they weren’t surprised after Marty Scurll left the company.

Prior to allegations made against him during the #SpeakingOut movement, Marty Scurll became the leadbooker for the Ring of Honor and played that role for about four months. Scurll also won both single and tag team titles while participating in the promotion.

The report also said that among the people they spoke to, many believed that he would not return to promotion after he was removed from the roster page in September.

Fightful said that “a lot” of the people they spoke to thought that Scurll should be given a second chance.

Scurll still lives in Orlando, Wrestling observer As recently reported, he does not work in the United States and may be forced to leave the United States