Final Battle 2020 Official Thread

[AnHonorableMention]

And if Brody won we would hear how he was moved too fast,isnt ready to be a main eventer & how ending RUSH reign quick again is classic delirious. We all know the routine....

Hard to say how I'd feel about it without seeing/knowing the specifics. Just think you have to acknowledge that Brody's lower now than he was going into FB. That's not good or bad per se, depends on what the goals were. They did what they could to build up guys like Brody and Flip for FB and perhaps the goal of that was just to get through FB. With this show over, hopefully we move into more long-term booking though.

When MJF lost to Moxley was his run at the top over? Shane Taylor is most likely next and guess what, hes not winning, so does that mean Shane is then buried? There is only one champ. When PCO won all we heard was how he barely had any singles wins & wasn't ready to main event...but some how Brody losing is the end of his career...

At the top? Absolutely, hence why they never continued that story beyond his loss, and another contender was already in place after the match ended. AEW has a direction, and yeah there's a lot going on but they have a clearly defined destination each time they change the title. ROH has no direction or purpose right now aside from base concepts that on paper are great. It's where they go and how they get to the final destination that is the problem.


PCO winning was fucking dumb and arguably one of the dumbest moves in the history of ROH. You are in a period where you are in desperate need of top card babyfaces. Yet your top program is two heel factions albeit in different sections of the heel genre. Shane Taylor, also a heel. It's silly, and its bad booking. Watch it end up being someone out of left field to win the title next like Josh Woods.

[monster mafia]

rush is awesome, glad he retains..hope he can stay, good booking, brody is a main eventer now, good.

[thebrettclark]

Did I miss something? How is the Foundation a heel faction? They’ve not acted heelish at all. I could see tweener faction but definitely not a heel group.

[famicommander]

Did I miss something? How is the Foundation a heel faction? They’ve not acted heelish at all. I could see tweener faction but definitely not a heel group.

Lethal and Gresham cheated to win a few matches last year. But that's about it.

I don't think Shane Taylor is a full on heel anymore either. I think he's a tweener that is slowly shifting into a babyface. He displayed honor in refusing the offer of being handed the trios titles. I think his promos since the restart have been too damn good for people not to get behind him.

I think with Lethal, Gresham, and Taylor all of them acted heelish until further exposition revealed their motives are basically backlash against injustices they perceive against them. When Taylor cut that promo making his demands to Koff and then he got them, that started his shift in my opinion

Lethal and Gresham was more a demonstration that if they cheated, they too could prosper. An act of frustration to make a point. The remedy to that is the return of Pure wrestling, which has been undeniably well received.

[Captain_44]

Just a personal opinion. I'm higher on Shane Taylor than I am, Brody tbh. ROH has a good group just needs a few pieces. Shane Taylor has improved leaps and bounds. I want to see what he does in spotlight.

[Chrisvegas27]

It seems ec3 staying long term

[Shanahan]

Hard to say how I'd feel about it without seeing/knowing the specifics. Just think you have to acknowledge that Brody's lower now than he was going into FB. That's not good or bad per se, depends on what the goals were. They did what they could to build up guys like Brody and Flip for FB and perhaps the goal of that was just to get through FB. With this show over, hopefully we move into more long-term booking though.

When MJF lost to Moxley was his run at the top over? Shane Taylor is most likely next and guess what, hes not winning, so does that mean Shane is then buried? There is only one champ. When PCO won all we heard was how he barely had any singles wins & wasn't ready to main event...but some how Brody losing is the end of his career...

At the top? Absolutely, hence why they never continued that story beyond his loss, and another contender was already in place after the match ended. AEW has a direction, and yeah there's a lot going on but they have a clearly defined destination each time they change the title. ROH has no direction or purpose right now aside from base concepts that on paper are great. It's where they go and how they get to the final destination that is the problem.


PCO winning was fucking dumb and arguably one of the dumbest moves in the history of ROH. You are in a period where you are in desperate need of top card babyfaces. Yet your top program is two heel factions albeit in different sections of the heel genre. Shane Taylor, also a heel. It's silly, and its bad booking. Watch it end up being someone out of left field to win the title next like Josh Woods.

How do you know ROH has no direction right now??? IMO, they have a direction. They just turned Brody into a legit main eventer,Shane Taylor has gone from Heel to slow burn face & right now he is running away with FB poll for next world title challenge (which ROH knew he would win based off reaction hes gotten last 3 months.) They have built up The Foundation as the next big Faction to go against the big bad heels in La Faccion. They just got Flip over as a future world title challenger. After Taven is done with Vincent he will be getting his rematch along with Haskins having his future world title match. And you still have guys like EC3,Jay,Dalton,Silas lurking. Shane will get the shot at The Experience and he will be screwed settiing up Rush vs Shane vs Brody vs Williams 4 way for title at Anniversary show. Rush will some how retain, and go on to defend vs Flip at SOH, & vs Rhett on TV episode, before facing Lethal at BITW. Rush then defends vs haskins during the summer,rematches Taven at DBD, and finally setting up Rush vs Gresham at FB 2021. And throughout the year we will get tag team matches,6 and 8 man matches all furthering the storyline.

[Wavelet Transform]

And if Brody won we would hear how he was moved too fast,isnt ready to be a main eventer & how ending RUSH reign quick again is classic delirious. We all know the routine....

Hard to say how I'd feel about it without seeing/knowing the specifics. Just think you have to acknowledge that Brody's lower now than he was going into FB. That's not good or bad per se, depends on what the goals were. They did what they could to build up guys like Brody and Flip for FB and perhaps the goal of that was just to get through FB. With this show over, hopefully we move into more long-term booking though.

When MJF lost to Moxley was his run at the top over? Shane Taylor is most likely next and guess what, hes not winning, so does that mean Shane is then buried? There is only one champ. When PCO won all we heard was how he barely had any singles wins & wasn't ready to main event...but some how Brody losing is the end of his career...

Shockingly poor example for the point you're trying to make. Does MJF even have a feud at this point?

But, to your actual point, Brody's not done as a result of FB (and my original post said as much). For the moment, he's back down the card and it'll take some work (i.e., a build similar to what he got for FB) to get him back to main event level. Same for Woods as a threat to the Pure title after the loss to Flip. As I said before, if the goal was to get Brody and Flip ready as credible challengers for FB, then mission accomplished. But, they're going to have to think more long-term than ppv-to-ppv to succeed.

The primary long-term direction is clearly LFI/Foundation and that's great. But, doing this in a way that's compelling will require more than a year of 6 man tags where LFI win half by cheating and the Foundation win the other half. I've really enjoyed various Lifeblood/VE tags from 2019, but I never care who wins and there's no actual progression to the story other than Lifeblood gets the occasional win which means they might get a shot at the 6 man belts in the future.

[Shanahan]

Hard to say how I'd feel about it without seeing/knowing the specifics. Just think you have to acknowledge that Brody's lower now than he was going into FB. That's not good or bad per se, depends on what the goals were. They did what they could to build up guys like Brody and Flip for FB and perhaps the goal of that was just to get through FB. With this show over, hopefully we move into more long-term booking though.

When MJF lost to Moxley was his run at the top over? Shane Taylor is most likely next and guess what, hes not winning, so does that mean Shane is then buried? There is only one champ. When PCO won all we heard was how he barely had any singles wins & wasn't ready to main event...but some how Brody losing is the end of his career...

Shockingly poor example for the point you're trying to make. Does MJF even have a feud at this point?

But, to your actual point, Brody's not done as a result of FB (and my original post said as much). For the moment, he's back down the card and it'll take some work (i.e., a build similar to what he got for FB) to get him back to main event level. Same for Woods as a threat to the Pure title after the loss to Flip. As I said before, if the goal was to get Brody and Flip ready as credible challengers for FB, then mission accomplished. But, they're going to have to think more long-term than ppv-to-ppv to succeed.

The primary long-term direction is clearly LFI/Foundation and that's great. But, doing this in a way that's compelling will require more than a year of 6 man tags where LFI win half by cheating and the Foundation win the other half. I've really enjoyed various Lifeblood/VE tags from 2019, but I never care who wins and there's no actual progression to the story other than Lifeblood gets the occasional win which means they might get a shot at the 6 man belts in the future.

MJF went from the lose to Jericho/Inner Circle angle. He isnt world champ but he can challenge for the title at any moment like Brody can. If in 3 months Brody is 2-2 vs mid carders then yea...it was a failure but i dont see that happening

[Montana]

It seems ec3 staying long term

Based on what?

At first i thought i heard a couple comments from EC3 about being "free" of his ROH contract... Then I know he wanted to finish his story with Jay Briscoe; but didn't think that meant long term.

[Chrisvegas27]

He did a ny post over the weekend that he says he likes the realism of the product and roh likes his gimmick and he wants to be a huge part of the company

[Montana]

Ok, we'll see. I think theres been a mixed reception online thus far. I wouldn't mind it... but hopefully they can build to something a bit more interesting ; than how the EC3/Jay Briscoe match was built.

[JoeyNRetrograde]

Which men. Why?

[JoeyNRetrograde]

https://twitter.com/NumeroUnoRudo/statu ... 9155831808

This is why.

Can we stop falling for this shit? Joey is a psycho. Dont forget the same bullshit this time last year...remember all stuff about ROH hating and getting rid of Shane Taylor after FB...how did that work out???

It worked out well. The day after I announced it - ST got a new deal. Dm me on Twitter. I’ll show you the evidence. Also, no. You can’t stop falling for RoH.

[Shanahan]

https://twitter.com/NumeroUnoRudo/statu ... 9155831808

This is why.

Can we stop falling for this shit? Joey is a psycho. Dont forget the same bullshit this time last year...remember all stuff about ROH hating and getting rid of Shane Taylor after FB...how did that work out???

It worked out well. The day after I announced it - ST got a new deal. Dm me on Twitter. I’ll show you the evidence. Also, no. You can’t stop falling for RoH.

I don’t wanna be part of any DMs or screenshots....i just wanna enjoy product without you trying to ruin it. Merry Christmas.

[famicommander]

Joey's such a mess he can't even manage to figure out the quote function.

[Shanahan]

Joey's such a mess he can't even manage to figure out the quote function.

yepp..i tried to fix mine but i have no idea what he did.

[Wavelet Transform]

Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame.

Oh, what a fantastic comparison. There's clearly demand for meme wrestlers and if they can make a living doing their shtick, good for them. I have no interest in seeing them in ROH, however, especially with ROH presenting itself as a serious, sports-like product. It's not even a coherent gimmick, just random nonsense for the sake of random nonsense.

[Shanahan]

Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame.

Oh, what a fantastic comparison. There's clearly demand for meme wrestlers and if they can make a living doing their shtick, good for them. I have no interest in seeing them in ROH, however, especially with ROH presenting itself as a serious, sports-like product. It's not even a coherent gimmick, just random nonsense for the sake of random nonsense.

ROH has always had off beat gimmicks even in the glory days.

[Wavelet Transform]

Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame.

Oh, what a fantastic comparison. There's clearly demand for meme wrestlers and if they can make a living doing their shtick, good for them. I have no interest in seeing them in ROH, however, especially with ROH presenting itself as a serious, sports-like product. It's not even a coherent gimmick, just random nonsense for the sake of random nonsense.

ROH has always had off beat gimmicks even in the glory days.

Doesn't mean they were good or well-received. I'd rather see ROH go all-in on the sports-like product and use the money on, say, a contract for Fred Yehi.