Final Battle 2020 Official Thread

[BurningHammer]

So hang on Brody wins two matches and is apparently straight away seen as being strong enough to beat a guy that’s been close to unbeatable. It’s put Brody in the title picture and that’s all you needed to do with for him now, set up a upper card angle with someone gunning for the title, maybe Matt Taven give him a couple more strong wins also over a couple of other/hopefully some full star quality matches and then I will see him as ready. I’ll more than agree Delirious has failed to create stars and capitalise on momentum/moments, this didn’t like one of those.

[Lynx]

The ending was fine but done at the wrong time with the wrong circumstances. You do not bury your potential top babyface by having him challenge your champ and do a fuck finish on your biggest show of the year. I remember when ROH didn't do fuck finishes to end Final Battle or any show of great circumstance. You also immediately dismiss Brody sending out the Foundation for a heel vs. heel Faction War.

You still are unable to explain how Brody was buried here. And of course you dismiss previous challenger when you are ready to launch next program for the world title.

[indyfan]

Yeah i dont buy Brody being buried either. With a year like 2020, its silly to compare this FB with FB of the past. After the pure rules tournament,there was hardly enough time to properly build Brody up take the belt.

He certainly doesnt look like a chump either. The heels used heel tactics to get the upperhand.

[Montana]

Yeah i dont buy Brody being buried either. With a year like 2020, its silly to compare this FB with FB of the past. After the pure rules tournament,there was hardly enough time to properly build Brody up take the belt.

He certainly doesnt look like a chump either. The heels used heel tactics to get the upperhand.

Exactly... While i would have enjoyed Brody winning the belt as a feel good moment, he really hasn't been built up enough, nor had many singles matches at all. The money is in the chase in my opinion. Assuming you've resigned Rush/Lee; it makes sense to keep them strong; and build up challengers for "big fight" title matches.

[NewROHFan2020]

Brody King has only had five singles matches in ROH including his title challenge. He was 3-1 going into the match. He was far less believable as a challenger to me than Shane Taylor would have been.

He can easily recover from the 2X world champion requiring several illegal tactics and interference to beat him in the main event of the flagship card of the year. A TV title reign would be a better spot for Brody right now.

Again, a chance to make a star and create a moment. Delirious failed, again.

You realize that the people watching ROH are already fans right? How many people watched Final Battle without already knowing Brody King? Who believes that Brody is done for because he lost on “Friday”?

If Final Battle was airing on “free tv”, maybe your statement could hold some merit. Other than that, just biased ridiculousness.

[Chrisvegas27]

Im wondering if maria helped book this show i mean she being presented the same way marty was when it announced he was head booker plus you have to take account she was due to join nxt creative team before her release and she been saying on roh platforms she wants to start doing creative

[AnHonorableMention]

Brody King has only had five singles matches in ROH including his title challenge. He was 3-1 going into the match. He was far less believable as a challenger to me than Shane Taylor would have been.

He can easily recover from the 2X world champion requiring several illegal tactics and interference to beat him in the main event of the flagship card of the year. A TV title reign would be a better spot for Brody right now.

Again, a chance to make a star and create a moment. Delirious failed, again.

You realize that the people watching ROH are already fans right? How many people watched Final Battle without already knowing Brody King? Who believes that Brody is done for because he lost on “Friday”?

If Final Battle was airing on “free tv”, maybe your statement could hold some merit. Other than that, just biased ridiculousness.

Nobody is saying Brody is cooked but we've seen the teases of title runs for too many under delirious and previous bookers. It makes the eventual win mean less. Tyler Black failed how many times? Davey Richards, Roderick Strong, how many failed title matches? Their wins were met with the law of diminishing returns.

[AnHonorableMention]

The ending was fine but done at the wrong time with the wrong circumstances. You do not bury your potential top babyface by having him challenge your champ and do a fuck finish on your biggest show of the year. I remember when ROH didn't do fuck finishes to end Final Battle or any show of great circumstance. You also immediately dismiss Brody sending out the Foundation for a heel vs. heel Faction War.

You still are unable to explain how Brody was buried here. And of course you dismiss previous challenger when you are ready to launch next program for the world title.

I just cited multiple examples of how a new star could have been created. The belt has never meant less than it does right now. Brody wins, makes a great victory promo and establishes his mission statement. Instead he's buried through interference, a goofy brawl albeit very heated, and more silly bells and whistles. They must create an environment where clean finishes on top matter. This type of stuff is completely ridiculous.

[AnHonorableMention]

Yeah i dont buy Brody being buried either. With a year like 2020, its silly to compare this FB with FB of the past. After the pure rules tournament,there was hardly enough time to properly build Brody up take the belt.

He certainly doesnt look like a chump either. The heels used heel tactics to get the upperhand.

Exactly... While i would have enjoyed Brody winning the belt as a feel good moment, he really hasn't been built up enough, nor had many singles matches at all. The money is in the chase in my opinion. Assuming you've resigned Rush/Lee; it makes sense to keep them strong; and build up challengers for "big fight" title matches.

Samoa Joe had by my count 4 singles matches before he won the title. His record? 1-3. He beat BJ, EZ Money, & Homicide in a 4 corner to get the #1 contenders trophy. Hardly a strong resume' before he crushed Xavier at Night of Champions.

[Shanahan]

Yeah i dont buy Brody being buried either. With a year like 2020, its silly to compare this FB with FB of the past. After the pure rules tournament,there was hardly enough time to properly build Brody up take the belt.

He certainly doesnt look like a chump either. The heels used heel tactics to get the upperhand.

Exactly... While i would have enjoyed Brody winning the belt as a feel good moment, he really hasn't been built up enough, nor had many singles matches at all. The money is in the chase in my opinion. Assuming you've resigned Rush/Lee; it makes sense to keep them strong; and build up challengers for "big fight" title matches.

Samoa Joe had by my count 4 singles matches before he won the title. His record? 1-3. He beat BJ, EZ Money, & Homicide in a 4 corner to get the #1 contenders trophy. Hardly a strong resume' before he crushed Xavier at Night of Champions.

Let's not compare Samoa Joe to Brody King. I like Brody, don't get it twisted, i'm a big fan but at the moment Shane was beat and focused on going for trios,jay was dealing with ec3,guys who have title shot guarantees --flip,taven --- had other storylines to finish & haskins is stuck in uk, so Brody was the most logical guy..he cut some really cool promos and had 2 big wins leading up to his title shot....he had the size to get people thinking he could win but he got screwed. Now he can take a step back...get some backup,watch the Foundation go after La Faccion and he can pick his spot. Brody's future is bright and RUSH keeping title was 100% correct call.

[Montana]

Exactly... While i would have enjoyed Brody winning the belt as a feel good moment, he really hasn't been built up enough, nor had many singles matches at all. The money is in the chase in my opinion. Assuming you've resigned Rush/Lee; it makes sense to keep them strong; and build up challengers for "big fight" title matches.

Samoa Joe had by my count 4 singles matches before he won the title. His record? 1-3. He beat BJ, EZ Money, & Homicide in a 4 corner to get the #1 contenders trophy. Hardly a strong resume' before he crushed Xavier at Night of Champions.

Let's not compare Samoa Joe to Brody King. I like Brody, don't get it twisted, i'm a big fan but at the moment Shane was beat and focused on going for trios,jay was dealing with ec3,guys who have title shot guarantees --flip,taven --- had other storylines to finish & haskins is stuck in uk, so Brody was the most logical guy..he cut some really cool promos and had 2 big wins leading up to his title shot....he had the size to get people thinking he could win but he got screwed. Now he can take a step back...get some backup,watch the Foundation go after La Faccion and he can pick his spot. Brody's future is bright and RUSH keeping title was 100% correct call.

Let alone Joe and Brody... But Xavier wasn't the champ the Rush currently is either. They basically put the belt on Xavier, as a chicken heel; where as Rush has been a dominant heel, for the most part. Plus it's not like ROH even knew in say June, they'd be holding Final Battle in DEC... so everything was very last minute; and storylines rushed.

Either way; ROH and the wrestling world is in a much different place 17 years later. If your expectations are for them to be the same; you will always be disappointed.

[BurningHammer]

Joe and Brody are very different animals in their moments, Joe had more than built a reputation outside of ROH that he was something special and could be looked at being ready. I think Brody is getting there and honestly this match showed he is possibly nearer than I originally thought but I don’t feel he is at Joe’s level just yet. I think the loss actually (I would hope) brings fans/the audience closer to him and their will be a stronger connection when he does win go hunting for the title.

ROH still needs to work with Brody and the audience, the promo in the back is a start but there needs to be more to this story and how, what he feels from this loss. He can’t just be forgotten about because then the loss really dies become pointless.

Just an add on I felt the Foundation coming after hue RUSH one, it creates a very obvious and strong dynamic between the two factions and what they stand for without just doing it in Promos. Both showed they were up for the fight and for someone like Gresham that’s incredibly important.

I was wondering how would people feel if they did a summer of Punk scenario with RUSH?

[AnHonorableMention]

Exactly... While i would have enjoyed Brody winning the belt as a feel good moment, he really hasn't been built up enough, nor had many singles matches at all. The money is in the chase in my opinion. Assuming you've resigned Rush/Lee; it makes sense to keep them strong; and build up challengers for "big fight" title matches.

Samoa Joe had by my count 4 singles matches before he won the title. His record? 1-3. He beat BJ, EZ Money, & Homicide in a 4 corner to get the #1 contenders trophy. Hardly a strong resume' before he crushed Xavier at Night of Champions.

Let's not compare Samoa Joe to Brody King. I like Brody, don't get it twisted, i'm a big fan but at the moment Shane was beat and focused on going for trios,jay was dealing with ec3,guys who have title shot guarantees --flip,taven --- had other storylines to finish & haskins is stuck in uk, so Brody was the most logical guy..he cut some really cool promos and had 2 big wins leading up to his title shot....he had the size to get people thinking he could win but he got screwed. Now he can take a step back...get some backup,watch the Foundation go after La Faccion and he can pick his spot. Brody's future is bright and RUSH keeping title was 100% correct call.

Not comparing the two as wrestlers or reputations, Joe is my all time favorite, it's going to take a miracle for someone to be within reason of him. I'm just saying, Brody had more matches in significant places in ROH than Joe did(tag wise and multi-man matches) and the same minimal singles matches. Sometimes the monster has to be the monster.

Also getting screwed in the main event of Final Battle is terrible booking.

[monster mafia]

the booking was fine and brody is fine too, he is the future.

[Lynx]

Nobody is saying Brody is cooked but we've seen the teases of title runs for too many under delirious and previous bookers.

Only tease was if Rush was staying or not.

[Wavelet Transform]

I'm just saying, Brody had more matches in significant places in ROH than Joe did(tag wise and multi-man matches) and the same minimal singles matches. Sometimes the monster has to be the monster.

Also getting screwed in the main event of Final Battle is terrible booking.

Agree with both points here. When someone new to the main event scene loses in their big title shot, the luster is gone (for now). They can get him back to main event level with another series of wins, but the loss drops him several pegs from where he was heading into FB. Different w/ an established, "franchise player" like Lethal who really isn't hurt by a loss at this point.

[Shanahan]

I'm just saying, Brody had more matches in significant places in ROH than Joe did(tag wise and multi-man matches) and the same minimal singles matches. Sometimes the monster has to be the monster.

Also getting screwed in the main event of Final Battle is terrible booking.

Agree with both points here. When someone new to the main event scene loses in their big title shot, the luster is gone (for now). They can get him back to main event level with another series of wins, but the loss drops him several pegs from where he was heading into FB. Different w/ an established, "franchise player" like Lethal who really isn't hurt by a loss at this point.

And if Brody won we would hear how he was moved too fast,isnt ready to be a main eventer & how ending RUSH reign quick again is classic delirious. We all know the routine....

[Wavelet Transform]

I'm just saying, Brody had more matches in significant places in ROH than Joe did(tag wise and multi-man matches) and the same minimal singles matches. Sometimes the monster has to be the monster.

Also getting screwed in the main event of Final Battle is terrible booking.

Agree with both points here. When someone new to the main event scene loses in their big title shot, the luster is gone (for now). They can get him back to main event level with another series of wins, but the loss drops him several pegs from where he was heading into FB. Different w/ an established, "franchise player" like Lethal who really isn't hurt by a loss at this point.

And if Brody won we would hear how he was moved too fast,isnt ready to be a main eventer & how ending RUSH reign quick again is classic delirious. We all know the routine....

Hard to say how I'd feel about it without seeing/knowing the specifics. Just think you have to acknowledge that Brody's lower now than he was going into FB. That's not good or bad per se, depends on what the goals were. They did what they could to build up guys like Brody and Flip for FB and perhaps the goal of that was just to get through FB. With this show over, hopefully we move into more long-term booking though.

[AnHonorableMention]

Nobody is saying Brody is cooked but we've seen the teases of title runs for too many under delirious and previous bookers.

Only tease was if Rush was staying or not.

In this match, yes. Not what I'm forecasting in the long run for Brody and the title. Delirious doesn't do anything until it's too late.

[Shanahan]

Agree with both points here. When someone new to the main event scene loses in their big title shot, the luster is gone (for now). They can get him back to main event level with another series of wins, but the loss drops him several pegs from where he was heading into FB. Different w/ an established, "franchise player" like Lethal who really isn't hurt by a loss at this point.

And if Brody won we would hear how he was moved too fast,isnt ready to be a main eventer & how ending RUSH reign quick again is classic delirious. We all know the routine....

Hard to say how I'd feel about it without seeing/knowing the specifics. Just think you have to acknowledge that Brody's lower now than he was going into FB. That's not good or bad per se, depends on what the goals were. They did what they could to build up guys like Brody and Flip for FB and perhaps the goal of that was just to get through FB. With this show over, hopefully we move into more long-term booking though.

When MJF lost to Moxley was his run at the top over? Shane Taylor is most likely next and guess what, hes not winning, so does that mean Shane is then buried? There is only one champ. When PCO won all we heard was how he barely had any singles wins & wasn't ready to main event...but some how Brody losing is the end of his career...