Final Battle 2020 Official Thread

[NewROHFan2020]

I thought the first hour was a giant waste of time. I understand what ROH is trying to do, but maybe this tactic would have worked 10 years ago. If you’re selling your PPV for $10, I think most people had already decided previously or not if they were going to buy it. How many people in rural parts of the country are ordering this on traditional PPV? I can’t imagine it’s more than a couple of hands full.

Especially since this event was presumably taped days ago, I thought hour one could have been better.

[kovs27]

I thought the first hour was a giant waste of time. I understand what ROH is trying to do, but maybe this tactic would have worked 10 years ago. If you’re selling your PPV for $10, I think most people had already decided previously or not if they were going to buy it. How many people in rural parts of the country are ordering this on traditional PPV? I can’t imagine it’s more than a couple of hands full.

Especially since this event was presumably taped days ago, I thought hour one could have been better.

I do think that it helps more wrestlers get on the show and allows the main show matches to get more time. Is it going to attract more PPV buys or Honor Club subs? Probably not a whole lot but it's a place to help retell the stories for the matches you are about to see and for those who have stored watching for a while who have decided to check out the show.

[NewROHFan2020]

I thought the first hour was a giant waste of time. I understand what ROH is trying to do, but maybe this tactic would have worked 10 years ago. If you’re selling your PPV for $10, I think most people had already decided previously or not if they were going to buy it. How many people in rural parts of the country are ordering this on traditional PPV? I can’t imagine it’s more than a couple of hands full.

Especially since this event was presumably taped days ago, I thought hour one could have been better.

I do think that it helps more wrestlers get on the show and allows the main show matches to get more time. Is it going to attract more PPV buys or Honor Club subs? Probably not a whole lot but it's a place to help retell the stories for the matches you are about to see and for those who have stored watching for a while who have decided to check out the show.

I guess I should have been a little more clear. I didn’t have a problem with the matches, just the video packages and junk. I would guess that 99% of the people watching are already fans and knew about the COVID absences and have seen the packages or storylines. I really doubt a person somehow knew about Final Battle, but missed all the announcements of matches and EC3 not being there. That’s my complaint.

[KL_]

It was a good PPV, some matches were really good.... but as for the first PPV after the "Coronawirus break", I expected even more. I don't know if there was something that created THE moment that will be remembered for more than a "minute". Maybe Gresham's double win.
And maybe that's why I was expecting Marty Scurll to return here

Nevertheless, I'm looking forward for ROH in 2021.

[AnHonorableMention]

I just finished the show a couple hours ago, dealing with some other issues around the house but wanted to state I liked some of what the show presented. Covid-19 Gordon had the match of his life and how could he not with a guy as good as Gresham? For as big a dipshit as Flip is, he finally had his first good ROH match. The Pure Rules tag was also fantastic. I've bitched and moaned about Rhett not getting what he earned and man this is the perfect spot for him. Yeti & Yehi belong for sure. A TV Title or even being the man to beat Rush down the road would be great. Speaking of Rush, I enjoyed the main but good lord what a dumb level of creativity to bury Brody dead. What a fucking joke. There's no logical reason to beat Brody here. He makes the challenge and loses looking like a complete goof.

Jay and Shane Taylor was fine, but if you took out PCO from the tag titles match and let Shane and him do battle. You add another great match to the show and hope for the best with Taylor & PCO.

Tony Deppen is good, but he's got some learning to do verbally and he moves entirely too fast to let anything cool he does sync in. Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame. Brian Johnson is also meh. Dalton Castle and Horus was a waste of time and space. Dalton sucks.

Bottom line, ROH's biggest show of the year felt like every other show excluding the Garden since the end of 2018. It's sad. No matter how much the effort comes from the talent and there always is extraordinary effort, the creative direction is pathetic. Rush, Lee, Bestia, & King vs. Foundation sounds good on paper but how that plays out in the ring will be great, while creatively the direction and twists & turns have me going in very low with my expectations.

[Chrisvegas27]

The majority of fans say it was a good show with good booking just the show went to long

[AnHonorableMention]

The majority of fans say it was a good show with good booking just the show went to long

That's a whole other story. It's Final Battle it belongs at 4 hours. Also was Angelina and Quinn supposed to go somewhere or is that going to continue onward. Calling it a good show is fine. When is ROH going to have great shows again? Cause ya know that was their calling card.

[BurningHammer]

The majority of fans say it was a good show with good booking just the show went to long

That's a whole other story. It's Final Battle it belongs at 4 hours. Also was Angelina and Quinn supposed to go somewhere or is that going to continue onward. Calling it a good show is fine. When is ROH going to have great shows again? Cause ya know that was their calling card.

Yeah Quinn said herself she wouldn’t be ready till next year, I’m guessing it will play out in the Women’s tournament.

You can’t say that ROH always had great shows, even when there was the best around there still duds are times or it was just a one match show. Looking from an outside view this was better than anything that MLW, IMPACT or the WWE has done all year. Yes for ROH they should deliver more because of their pedigree but the more great wrestlers you have on your roster the more chance you have of doing that. Thankfully ROH is finally realising that are starting to get back to it.

Also I certainly don’t think Brody came off as a goof, (especially if you look at other booking in other companies) you had the most dominate champion of any company win because of a chair shot from interference. RUSH needed more than he had to beat Brody so that actually helps Brody surely. Also if you actually want to finally have some consistency in your booking keeping RUSH as champ is by far the best call how many times has that title changed has just because it’s Final Battle, someone leaving or to be different these titles need faces so we can actually start feeling them as champ. Overall that’s the first time that I felt RUSH and Lee were champs in ROH and they gave a shit about it.

[Lynx]

Speaking of Rush, I enjoyed the main but good lord what a dumb level of creativity to bury Brody dead. What a fucking joke. There's no logical reason to beat Brody here. He makes the challenge and loses looking like a complete goof.

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? This was standard "heel wins due to cheating" ending.

Anyway, my thoughts:

Zero Hour was a pleasant surprise, both matches worked better than I expected.
I don't like Danhausen and I felt like his match should have been in the pre-show, but I guess it made sense to cleanse the palate after Kingdom/Righteous match.
Speaking about that tag match, it was above the average I think, but I'm really not a fan of whole faces win and then heels beat them down. It was not even some lucky win, but a dominant one. I understand why it happened (need to extend the feud and a reason for Maria's return), but I feel like it probably could have been executed better. All guys are putting in the work and storyline makes sense, but I think that they are dropping the ball here a bit and in TV with that last pointless DQ finish.
Tag title match I thought was rather mediocre. I don't really have much bad to say about it, but at the same time it was just there for me. Same for Dalton/Horus. Well worked, but nothing memorable asides of the finishing move. These two and Danhausen's matches were weakest to me on the show.
I'm happy that EC3 couldn't make it and Shane got a big win in a pretty good match. He keeps calling out Rush so maybe a title shot before Rush vs Gresham gets built up properly?
TV and Pure title matches were good fun, but I was a disappointed that "this is a second match tonight for this guy" plot point didn't really matter in them. Deppen did touch his neck while walking to the ring, but that was that.
Main event was fun brawl that had many spots that I usually wouldn't like, but it worked here because it was perfect contrast to Gresham/Flip match that just concluded. Rush and Gresham have literally nothing in common and Rush mocking Gresham's height in post match comments was perfect.

Now, Bestia is really, really bad. I hope that they manage to hide him in tag team matches and he doesn't end up winning singles matches against Tracy or Lethal. But asides of that Ingobernables vs Foundation sounds really good. It does feel like this is what RoH wanted to do post-Elite when they had Lifeblood formed and Bully had his gang doing bad things. But this time all the ingredients are much better and it feels like it has a proper build.

[indyfan]

In an after match promo, Brody stated he needs to rethink his mantra or something like that.

[Montana]

The majority of fans say it was a good show with good booking just the show went to long

That's a whole other story. It's Final Battle it belongs at 4 hours. Also was Angelina and Quinn supposed to go somewhere or is that going to continue onward. Calling it a good show is fine. When is ROH going to have great shows again? Cause ya know that was their calling card.

Yeah Quinn said herself she wouldn’t be ready till next year, I’m guessing it will play out in the Women’s tournament.

You can’t say that ROH always had great shows, even when there was the best around there still duds are times or it was just a one match show. Looking from an outside view this was better than anything that MLW, IMPACT or the WWE has done all year. Yes for ROH they should deliver more because of their pedigree but the more great wrestlers you have on your roster the more chance you have of doing that. Thankfully ROH is finally realising that are starting to get back to it.

Also I certainly don’t think Brody came off as a goof, (especially if you look at other booking in other companies) you had the most dominate champion of any company win because of a chair shot from interference. RUSH needed more than he had to beat Brody so that actually helps Brody surely. Also if you actually want to finally have some consistency in your booking keeping RUSH as champ is by far the best call how many times has that title changed has just because it’s Final Battle, someone leaving or to be different these titles need faces so we can actually start feeling them as champ. Overall that’s the first time that I felt RUSH and Lee were champs in ROH and they gave a shit about it.

Agree'd...

While i think this was a Very good show; and better than a majority out there... It was missing something from being great. That being said...a very good show is still very good... so at this point, it's either you like what ROH is offering or not.

As for Brody and Rush; i thought they made Brody look pretty strong. Rush had to cheat , and bend the rules throughout the match to keep up; and needed outside interference. Not sure how much else you could do without making Rush look bad at that point.

As for the Foundation / LFI feud... i can't say i'm really excited about it... but i'll give it some time. While i like the foundation in the ring; them complaining about wrestlers using punches gets old/lame to me. Think this feud will need a pinch more creativity to fully engage my interest... but certainly glad to have ROH back and glad they are making the necessary strides/improvements needed.

[monster mafia]

I just finished the show a couple hours ago, dealing with some other issues around the house but wanted to state I liked some of what the show presented. Covid-19 Gordon had the match of his life and how could he not with a guy as good as Gresham? For as big a dipshit as Flip is, he finally had his first good ROH match. The Pure Rules tag was also fantastic. I've bitched and moaned about Rhett not getting what he earned and man this is the perfect spot for him. Yeti & Yehi belong for sure. A TV Title or even being the man to beat Rush down the road would be great. Speaking of Rush, I enjoyed the main but good lord what a dumb level of creativity to bury Brody dead. What a fucking joke. There's no logical reason to beat Brody here. He makes the challenge and loses looking like a complete goof.

Jay and Shane Taylor was fine, but if you took out PCO from the tag titles match and let Shane and him do battle. You add another great match to the show and hope for the best with Taylor & PCO.

Tony Deppen is good, but he's got some learning to do verbally and he moves entirely too fast to let anything cool he does sync in. Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame. Brian Johnson is also meh. Dalton Castle and Horus was a waste of time and space. Dalton sucks.

Bottom line, ROH's biggest show of the year felt like every other show excluding the Garden since the end of 2018. It's sad. No matter how much the effort comes from the talent and there always is extraordinary effort, the creative direction is pathetic. Rush, Lee, Bestia, & King vs. Foundation sounds good on paper but how that plays out in the ring will be great, while creatively the direction and twists & turns have me going in very low with my expectations.

always positive, i like that.

[AnHonorableMention]

I just finished the show a couple hours ago, dealing with some other issues around the house but wanted to state I liked some of what the show presented. Covid-19 Gordon had the match of his life and how could he not with a guy as good as Gresham? For as big a dipshit as Flip is, he finally had his first good ROH match. The Pure Rules tag was also fantastic. I've bitched and moaned about Rhett not getting what he earned and man this is the perfect spot for him. Yeti & Yehi belong for sure. A TV Title or even being the man to beat Rush down the road would be great. Speaking of Rush, I enjoyed the main but good lord what a dumb level of creativity to bury Brody dead. What a fucking joke. There's no logical reason to beat Brody here. He makes the challenge and loses looking like a complete goof.

Jay and Shane Taylor was fine, but if you took out PCO from the tag titles match and let Shane and him do battle. You add another great match to the show and hope for the best with Taylor & PCO.

Tony Deppen is good, but he's got some learning to do verbally and he moves entirely too fast to let anything cool he does sync in. Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame. Brian Johnson is also meh. Dalton Castle and Horus was a waste of time and space. Dalton sucks.

Bottom line, ROH's biggest show of the year felt like every other show excluding the Garden since the end of 2018. It's sad. No matter how much the effort comes from the talent and there always is extraordinary effort, the creative direction is pathetic. Rush, Lee, Bestia, & King vs. Foundation sounds good on paper but how that plays out in the ring will be great, while creatively the direction and twists & turns have me going in very low with my expectations.

always positive, i like that.

?????

[AnHonorableMention]

I just finished the show a couple hours ago, dealing with some other issues around the house but wanted to state I liked some of what the show presented. Covid-19 Gordon had the match of his life and how could he not with a guy as good as Gresham? For as big a dipshit as Flip is, he finally had his first good ROH match. The Pure Rules tag was also fantastic. I've bitched and moaned about Rhett not getting what he earned and man this is the perfect spot for him. Yeti & Yehi belong for sure. A TV Title or even being the man to beat Rush down the road would be great. Speaking of Rush, I enjoyed the main but good lord what a dumb level of creativity to bury Brody dead. What a fucking joke. There's no logical reason to beat Brody here. He makes the challenge and loses looking like a complete goof.

Jay and Shane Taylor was fine, but if you took out PCO from the tag titles match and let Shane and him do battle. You add another great match to the show and hope for the best with Taylor & PCO.

Tony Deppen is good, but he's got some learning to do verbally and he moves entirely too fast to let anything cool he does sync in. Danhausen is the shits. A goth peewee herman in ROH is fucking lame. Brian Johnson is also meh. Dalton Castle and Horus was a waste of time and space. Dalton sucks.

Bottom line, ROH's biggest show of the year felt like every other show excluding the Garden since the end of 2018. It's sad. No matter how much the effort comes from the talent and there always is extraordinary effort, the creative direction is pathetic. Rush, Lee, Bestia, & King vs. Foundation sounds good on paper but how that plays out in the ring will be great, while creatively the direction and twists & turns have me going in very low with my expectations.

always positive, i like that.

?????

[AnHonorableMention]

Speaking of Rush, I enjoyed the main but good lord what a dumb level of creativity to bury Brody dead. What a fucking joke. There's no logical reason to beat Brody here. He makes the challenge and loses looking like a complete goof.

What the hell is that even supposed to mean? This was standard "heel wins due to cheating" ending.

The ending was fine but done at the wrong time with the wrong circumstances. You do not bury your potential top babyface by having him challenge your champ and do a fuck finish on your biggest show of the year. I remember when ROH didn't do fuck finishes to end Final Battle or any show of great circumstance. You also immediately dismiss Brody sending out the Foundation for a heel vs. heel Faction War.

[AnHonorableMention]

The majority of fans say it was a good show with good booking just the show went to long

That's a whole other story. It's Final Battle it belongs at 4 hours. Also was Angelina and Quinn supposed to go somewhere or is that going to continue onward. Calling it a good show is fine. When is ROH going to have great shows again? Cause ya know that was their calling card.

Yeah Quinn said herself she wouldn’t be ready till next year, I’m guessing it will play out in the Women’s tournament.

You can’t say that ROH always had great shows, even when there was the best around there still duds are times or it was just a one match show. Looking from an outside view this was better than anything that MLW, IMPACT or the WWE has done all year. Yes for ROH they should deliver more because of their pedigree but the more great wrestlers you have on your roster the more chance you have of doing that. Thankfully ROH is finally realising that are starting to get back to it.

Also I certainly don’t think Brody came off as a goof, (especially if you look at other booking in other companies) you had the most dominate champion of any company win because of a chair shot from interference. RUSH needed more than he had to beat Brody so that actually helps Brody surely. Also if you actually want to finally have some consistency in your booking keeping RUSH as champ is by far the best call how many times has that title changed has just because it’s Final Battle, someone leaving or to be different these titles need faces so we can actually start feeling them as champ. Overall that’s the first time that I felt RUSH and Lee were champs in ROH and they gave a shit about it.

Quinn stuff I must have missed, there's so much youtube content it is difficult to keep up with at times.

As for the second comment, I think comparatively speaking the shows were all memorable and had things you could take with you. For example, we just covered Final Battle 2010, which I think could be the best Final Battle of all time top to bottom. 3 great matches, this show had its moments but it failed to suck you in for four hours straight.

It has not been confirmed what Rush or Dragon Lee is doing. Rush has some really great offers and Dragon Lee is of course tied to NJPW. Brody was locked in and you need to desperately create new & unique top stars.

[famicommander]

Brody King has only had five singles matches in ROH including his title challenge. He was 3-1 going into the match. He was far less believable as a challenger to me than Shane Taylor would have been.

He can easily recover from the 2X world champion requiring several illegal tactics and interference to beat him in the main event of the flagship card of the year. A TV title reign would be a better spot for Brody right now.

[Shanahan]

Brody is in a great position. He went toe to toe with the champ who needed his dad to crack brody over the head with a chair to win. Brody after the match admitted he underestimated having backup as a nod to VE being done. Brody is still a top contender who will look for revenge and maybe his own group. I have no problem with it.

We now have Main Event scene with RUSH,Foundation,Brody & Shane. Add in Flip and Haskins having world title shots...things are looking interesting.

[AnHonorableMention]

Brody King has only had five singles matches in ROH including his title challenge. He was 3-1 going into the match. He was far less believable as a challenger to me than Shane Taylor would have been.

He can easily recover from the 2X world champion requiring several illegal tactics and interference to beat him in the main event of the flagship card of the year. A TV title reign would be a better spot for Brody right now.

Again, a chance to make a star and create a moment. Delirious failed, again.

[AnHonorableMention]

Brody is in a great position. He went toe to toe with the champ who needed his dad to crack brody over the head with a chair to win. Brody after the match admitted he underestimated having backup as a nod to VE being done. Brody is still a top contender who will look for revenge and maybe his own group. I have no problem with it.

We now have Main Event scene with RUSH,Foundation,Brody & Shane. Add in Flip and Haskins having world title shots...things are looking interesting.

There is no time table for Haskins or any Euro talent to be back especially with today's news. Flip Gordon is far from a main eventer. Time for him to grow up and start acting like an adult long before he is a main eventer. Can't trust a guy that gets his twitter closed for content.