Final Battle 2020 Official Thread

[Chrisvegas27]

Gresham told quinn he looking to spread out the foundation tracy titus and lethal in the rest of the divisions to purify them

[famicommander]

I managed to catch most of the show sandwiched around the Golovkin fight. Will go back and watch the tag title match in the morning.

Overall, I thought it was a great show. The Danhausen match seemed a lot more preshow to me than anything else. And Silas Young was conspicuous in his absence. I figured he'd corner Woods or step into one of the matches that had to be reshuffled, but nope.

Rush and Lee retaining and Bestia coming in would seem to indicate they're sticking around. Glad to see it.

I had pegged the only title change for this card as the Trios title match, which we obviously didn't get to see. After the reshuffling I thought perhaps we'd see a TV title change, but nope.

I kept expecting Maria to come out and hit Von Star with a chair or something during that segment.

Glad to see Shane Taylor pick up a big W.

Deppen and Lee tore it up. Gresham and Flip tore it up. Shane and Briscoe tore it up. Main event was great, I wasn't happy about the ending until the camera panned out to reveal the Foundation looking on in disgust.

Very, very happy that BS about Marty coming back was false.

[Wavelet Transform]

I really enjoyed the show, esp. considering the COVID-necessitated card changes. A few things that stood out to me:

1. I love that Gresham is using ultra-basic stuff (pounding the knee into the mat, forearm smashes) out of nowhere as finishes. I haven't seen anyone talk about this, but I think it's long-overdue that matches move to more realistic finishes like you see in MMA. The last two years, in particular, it's felt like you need to see 2-3 finisher kickouts before you feel like a match might end. Finishes coming out of nowhere makes the matches more exciting and realistic and Gresham's work here and in PWG is proof that this approach can work.

2. Building on the above, pleased to see them going all-in on Gresham. Guy is so good at everything he does and is exactly the type of talent I want to see in ROH. Wouldn't have been shocked by a tag title change, so was happy to see the belts stay with the Foundation.

3. Can ROH please start pushing Brian Johnson? I've yet to see a match/segment with him in it where I wasn't entertained.

4. Ian and Caprice were on their game tonight. They've got the sports-like presentation down and it's adding a lot to the matches for me. Remains to be seen whether the serious, sports-like presentation is what fans actually want (vs. cheeky jokes/memes), but I've really enjoyed their 2020 work.

5. Main event had the "big fight feel" to me, especially in the opening minutes. Hated the garbage with Rush choking King with the cords and using the barricades, but that actually paid off nicely in the end. ROH nicely pivoted away from the VE vs LFI to Foundation vs LFI.

Overall, excited to see where we go from here.

[Wavelet Transform]

RUSH’s promo with Quinn showed he’s starting to feel more comfortable all together. ROH really needs to double down on him, get him to a Naito level heel, which I think is more than possible and ROH will have a money draw.

I do wonder who Brody will bring in, which feels likely, I’m trying to think of so’cal/maybe PWG guys guys that he would know that could come in.

Totally agree on RUSH - really hope they've got him locked up as he's an awesome champion.

[famicommander]

Sounds like it delivered way more than I thought it would match wise but gave a lot to story both in the future and the past which is exactly what I wanted. The great matches are a big plus for me.

I’ll happily take Bestia if it means RUSH/Lee stay and more than happy to see him over others.

Although Bestia better not wrestle as it’s going to be worse than PCO.

I can see Bestia in the trios division. He's worked countless trios matches and they can hide him pretty easily there and have him eat pins for LFI when necessary.

[BurningHammer]

RUSH’s promo with Quinn showed he’s starting to feel more comfortable all together. ROH really needs to double down on him, get him to a Naito level heel, which I think is more than possible and ROH will have a money draw.

I do wonder who Brody will bring in, which feels likely, I’m trying to think of so’cal/maybe PWG guys guys that he would know that could come in.

Totally agree on RUSH - really hope they've got him locked up as he's an awesome champion.

Looking at the reaction to it, to him, people still don’t understand what his charachter is, so ROH might have to be a bit more obvious to it. I loved how he just goes you don’t understand what I’m saying well then you are beneath me, you are the Neanderthal. He also creates that vibe of, What’s he saying about me?, why are they laughing at me?. It’s great stuff and just needs to do more of it.

[BurningHammer]

Sounds like it delivered way more than I thought it would match wise but gave a lot to story both in the future and the past which is exactly what I wanted. The great matches are a big plus for me.

I’ll happily take Bestia if it means RUSH/Lee stay and more than happy to see him over others.

Although Bestia better not wrestle as it’s going to be worse than PCO.

I can see Bestia in the trios division. He's worked countless trios matches and they can hide him pretty easily there and have him eat pins for LFI when necessary.

If he plays a similar role to Jado and instead of a Kendo stick carries a chair then yeah for sure I’m good with him being around in matches. ROH though needs to make sure that the wrestling is top notch around the card like NJPW does to make up for these things.

[McXal]

I didn’t love the show as much as some on here - and (even if I get why) I was SO disappointed with the lack of imagination shown with the booking of the finish to Rush/Brody.

But on the whole it was a solid, easy to watch four hours of wrestling with a serious, sustained focus on sporting, gritty presentation. In 2020 that is both a welcome alternative and an accomplishment to be proud of.

Quick thoughts:

1) Gresham/Flip was absolutely stunning

2) I loved the Pure Rules Tag format. I can’t wait to see more of that

3) Rush came across as one of the best empty arena workers anywhere. He absolutely FILLED the room in a way I’ve not seen many performers anywhere do. If ROH can lock him down and keep getting him in to work despite COVID restrictions it feels like 2021 could be the year be really lives up to his potential

4) I really want Yehi, Yuta and Deppen signed. Yehi in particular.

5) Dragon Lee is obscenely good. His match with Deppen wasn’t necessarily the best showcase of that, but he is special

6) As is Rey Horus. In all the hype for Bandido (and in turn Flamita) I think some have slept on Horus. His match with Dalton was great, and no coincidence felt like Dalton’s best match since the reboot too.

7) Caprice and Ian are a really strong announce team. Coleman’s ability to analyse and translate what we’re seeing in the ring is great. And I wonder if Ian has made an active decision to tone down the musical quips and reduce the amount of hyperbolic rhetoric. I thought his call on Brody using strategies used by the likes of Taven and PCO to successfully attack Rush in past matches was superb, and an example of a slightly more detailed, sports-focused announcing style (I guess he’s on this board sometimes so I’d love to know if he’s doing anything different to suit the slight tonal change in the product)

My full review below if anyone is interested...

http://mcxalsreviews.yolasite.com/finalbattle2020.php

[Montana]

*****Spoilers******

Well... over all really liked the show; and for what it was; i think it turned out about the best it could be for a PPV off a long break; COVID mixing the card up.

star ratings:

4 Way - 3.0-3.25 - Solid Opener

Pure Tag Match 4.0 - Exceeded my expectations for sure. When watching live, i was like that might be match of the night.

Tag Titles 3.0-3.25 - Fun match; good but not great. PCO is becoming an acquired taste.

Dalton vs. Horus 3.0 - Solid

OGK vs. Righteous - 4.0 - Again, exceeded expectations... I'm not sure if i've seen 4 wrestlers ever put that much effort in a tag match. Big move after big move; but with a story behind it. I was just expecting the typical hardcore match. Taven/Vincent do it again at Final Battle.

DanHausen vs. Mecca - 3.0 - LIked the finish, good time for a cool down.

Dragon Lee vs. TD - 4.0-4.25 - Another match, where my expectations were exceeded.

Shane Taylor vs Jay Briscoe 3.5 - Solid... what you'd probably expect with these two.

Gresham vs. Flip 4.0-4.25 - Mixed feelings on this match from beginning to end. Didn't love the finish; but enjoyed the climax to the match, if that makes sense. Flip made me forget about his flips. Good stuff

Rush - Brody King 4.25-4.5 - Probably my favorite match... I enjoyed every minute of it; and had the big fight feel. Didn't like the ended where Bestia interferred; but kept my rating high as if that didn't happen. Makes sense; and glad it looks like they are all staying. Like other mentioned; more of a manager / mentor role is perfect. I really liked these two; and it was intense and hard hitting.

I probably need to rewatch the PPV; but at first viewing without giving it too much here's about where it ended up for me. I really think out of those 5 big matches; it's hard to pick a favorite or one that stands out as a clear better match. Personally i like the main event the best. I still feel the show was a 8.5 or 9.0 for me. It felt like just about every match was either good or real good. Closest to great for me; was the main event. All things considered; think it turned out really good for the show.

Not sure exactly how much it set up 2021 and/or the next round of tapings; but i thinking focusing on the PPV was probably the right way to go. Leave the storyline stuff for TV. Guess the LFI and Foundation was teased, Righteous taking out Bennett... They'll have Jay and EC3 down the road.

I'll also take Bestia all day if it means Rush and Dragon Lee stays. ROH is lacking legit main eventers, and i think both can pull off that role very well.

Also... Like McXal said.... great job by the announce team tonight. They totally make me not even think about the lack of crowd. Imagine some is the camera work... but certainly the commentary is the unsung hero for ROH right now.

[indyfan]

heres mine. i missed opener

Pure Rules Tag - ***1/2
Foundation vs PCO and Mark Briscoe - ***1/4
Rey Horus vs Dalton Castle - ***1/4
Taven and Bennett vs Righteous - ***1/2
Danhaussen vs Johnson - **
Deppen vs Lee - ****
Shane Taylor vs Jay Briscoe - ***3/4
Gresham vs Flip - ****1/4
Brody King vs Rush - ***3/4

[IanRiccaboni]

7) Caprice and Ian are a really strong announce team. Coleman’s ability to analyse and translate what we’re seeing in the ring is great. And I wonder if Ian has made an active decision to tone down the musical quips and reduce the amount of hyperbolic rhetoric. I thought his call on Brody using strategies used by the likes of Taven and PCO to successfully attack Rush in past matches was superb, and an example of a slightly more detailed, sports-focused announcing style (I guess he’s on this board sometimes so I’d love to know if he’s doing anything different to suit the slight tonal change in the product)

My full review below if anyone is interested...

http://mcxalsreviews.yolasite.com/finalbattle2020.php

Thank you! And thank you all for watching.

I tried to make some active adjustments on how to call matches with Caprice. Caprice's background in amateur wrestling, MMA, and BJJ, etc gives me different tools to work with. He's a legitimate, bona-fide expert in different areas than Colt was. I probably leaned heavy into the music and "fun" with Colt because I saw that as something I could attach to quickly and he and I as a team could formulate an identity that way quickly.

I was really concerned at first about having and creating an identity, especially coming in and replacing someone so known and associated with one of the most famous eras in wrestling for those who watched then who is very, very good right now. I loved the 90s SportsCenter crew: Stuart Scott obviously but Kenny Mayne, Keith Olbermann, Steve Levy, Linda Cohn, and the rest of the crew. I loved their style. They would drop in 60s and 70s references and soundbites. Extrapolate that to now and that gives you the range.

Unfortunately, Mauro was doing the same and maybe even doing it a bit overkill and I genuinely wasn't aware. I have a day job, I teach a college class, and over the years my family has grown. I had know Mauro from NJPW on AXS as that was the last time in my life that I really had free time to watch *everything* and even then, his act was "toned down" compared to where it will land.

I was getting a lot of comparisons in ways that I implied I was borrowing or using some of his schicht, so on top of being with a different partner and feeling like I had an actual identity without bells and whistles, I toned it back. I have a decade on TV now for various things I only started truly calling matches in 2015 so hopefully this is the first part of a conscious continual evolution.

Appreciate you all watching! There are some fun episodes to close the year with some new names and faces along with some of the most recognizable ones. I hope you continue to join us!

[monster mafia]

cant wait to see new faces, thanks ian!

[BurningHammer]

I know I’ve been critical in the past of you Ian and it’s mainly because I felt you had something there that could really help the product. It’s great to see you fulfil your potential and make the adjustments as it’s working on so many levels. You and Caprice have found something that can be hard to find and long may that continue.

[famicommander]

In hindsight it shouldn't be surprising that Rush and Lee are staying because the scene in Mexico is pretty dire right now:
-AAA has no idea when their next show will be
-The state where CMLL runs most of their shows just locked down again and they may not even be able to put on their PPV next week

AAA could once again be facing an existential crisis. They are literally suing themselves and their entire Youtube account has been deleted a week after they were forced to take down their Triplemania video due to music rights issues. Unlike most wrestling promotions, AAA had a direct cash deal with Youtube itself and that was a significant amount of money during the pandemic. They weren't stuck relying on the pittance per-view ad revenue.

[McXal]

7) Caprice and Ian are a really strong announce team. Coleman’s ability to analyse and translate what we’re seeing in the ring is great. And I wonder if Ian has made an active decision to tone down the musical quips and reduce the amount of hyperbolic rhetoric. I thought his call on Brody using strategies used by the likes of Taven and PCO to successfully attack Rush in past matches was superb, and an example of a slightly more detailed, sports-focused announcing style (I guess he’s on this board sometimes so I’d love to know if he’s doing anything different to suit the slight tonal change in the product)

My full review below if anyone is interested...

http://mcxalsreviews.yolasite.com/finalbattle2020.php

Thank you! And thank you all for watching.

I tried to make some active adjustments on how to call matches with Caprice. Caprice's background in amateur wrestling, MMA, and BJJ, etc gives me different tools to work with. He's a legitimate, bona-fide expert in different areas than Colt was. I probably leaned heavy into the music and "fun" with Colt because I saw that as something I could attach to quickly and he and I as a team could formulate an identity that way quickly.

I was really concerned at first about having and creating an identity, especially coming in and replacing someone so known and associated with one of the most famous eras in wrestling for those who watched then who is very, very good right now. I loved the 90s SportsCenter crew: Stuart Scott obviously but Kenny Mayne, Keith Olbermann, Steve Levy, Linda Cohn, and the rest of the crew. I loved their style. They would drop in 60s and 70s references and soundbites. Extrapolate that to now and that gives you the range.

Unfortunately, Mauro was doing the same and maybe even doing it a bit overkill and I genuinely wasn't aware. I have a day job, I teach a college class, and over the years my family has grown. I had know Mauro from NJPW on AXS as that was the last time in my life that I really had free time to watch *everything* and even then, his act was "toned down" compared to where it will land.

I was getting a lot of comparisons in ways that I implied I was borrowing or using some of his schicht, so on top of being with a different partner and feeling like I had an actual identity without bells and whistles, I toned it back. I have a decade on TV now for various things I only started truly calling matches in 2015 so hopefully this is the first part of a conscious continual evolution.

Appreciate you all watching! There are some fun episodes to close the year with some new names and faces along with some of the most recognizable ones. I hope you continue to join us!

Thanks for the response Ian. Fascinating insight - particularly the differences in commentating alongside Caprice vs Colt. I must confess I’d not even considered the fact that comparisons to Mauro might impact how you went about things and would adversely impact how people perceived your work.

The rapport you have with Caprice right now really enhances the product. Seasons Greetings to you!

[famicommander]

Ian and Caprice are easily the best commentary team going in wrestling right now. That said, I still miss Caprice wrestling. The world needs those slick ass flipping triple northern lights suplexes he does.

[AlexROH]

Super fun show overall. It was the best show ever, but it delivered. They needed to showcase their product and roster and that's what they did.

Pre-Show:
Draper vs. Deppen vs. LSG vs. Woods 1/4
[Pure] Williams & Titus vs. Yuta & Yehi

I loved the 'Hour One'. It didn't feel like filler. Good wrestling, good talent and very creative way to announce new matches for the main card using Quinn McKay on backstage. She's doing a fantastic job, one of my favourite things in the company right now, as well as the comentary team; Ian-Caprice are even better than Ian-Colt, as some of you said, they really mix well with the current sports-based presentation. Btw, the pure tag team match was way better than I first thought, I hope this becomes a regular thing going on.

P.S. Please sign Deppen, Yehi and Yuta ASAP.

Main card:
PCO & Mark vs. Lethal & Gresham 1/2
Castle vs. Horus
Taven & Bennett vs. Righteous
Danhausen vs. Johnson 1/2
Lee (c) vs. Deppen 1/4
Taylor vs. Briscoe 1/2
Gresham (c) vs. Flip 1/4
Rush (c) vs. Brody 1/2+

The PPV was solid. The opener had really cool dynamics, with Lethal and Gresham working a different style. Then you had Castle-Horus, which was just fine, and then tag match, that I really feel like it lacked something. I assume they are building for a bigger match, with a stipulation and Maria Kanellis involved. Danhausen vs. Johson, on the other hand, was super fun. I'm all in with Danhausen.

The PPV picked up with the TV Title. Awesome match, my second favourite of the night. Dragon Lee had his best singles performance in ROH and Deppen really worked his ass off to earn a contract. Taylor-Briscoe was an intense match, Jay never takes days off and tried to make Taylor look as big as possible. I'm intrigued to see what's next for Taylor and his stable, which I hope adds O'Shay Edwards soon on TV, he's a great ROH Dojo talent.

The last hour was my favourite. Gresham-Flip really exceed my expectations. Super intelligent worked match with a cool structure. Gresham is on another level, but Flip also had a strong performance, showing that he's way more than a highflyer. Match of the night, IMO. And then, the main event. Great violent-intense brawl. It had everything the Righteous-Kingdom match lacked. Rush is a star and Brody, as well as most of the talent last night, was super motivated to present a worthy main event. I'm not a big fan of Bestia del Ring, but that means that Rush and Lee are staying, so I'm fine with that. The Foundation vs. La Faccion Ingobernable looks like a fantastic program for 2021, way more organic and interesting than the original VE-Ingobernables feud that started in January.

Overall, I recomend you to give the show a watch. Was it the best show of the year? No. Was it bad? No. It was a solid 4 hour show with great wrestling and an awesome roster.

Final rating: 8/10.

[thebrettclark]

Was it just me or were there a thousand and one camera cuts during the OGK/Righteous match? Felt like a Kevin Dunn special. I didn’t notice as many in any other match.

[maxx_powerz]

I've read four or five reviews and it's interesting, I've seen four stars or higher for Dragon Lee / Deppen, the Taven / Vincent tag and the Pure title match but no one review that highly rated all three. Don't know that it means anything, just interesting. Haven't seen the show yet so I can't say myself.

[famicommander]

I've read four or five reviews and it's interesting, I've seen four stars or higher for Dragon Lee / Deppen, the Taven / Vincent tag and the Pure title match but no one review that highly rated all three. Don't know that it means anything, just interesting. Haven't seen the show yet so I can

They were very different matches but I thought they were all very good. I don't bother giving star ratings though. Of the three I thought the tag match was a notch below but I enjoyed it.