What action should ROH take regarding #SpeakingOut?

[supersonic]

This thread is specifically about the ROH portion of this watershed time.

So far, Dan Maff and Marty Scurll have had accusations, with the latter making a statement.

Regarding Maff:
https://twitter.com/SierraLoxton/status ... 4768422913
https://twitter.com/RasslingNerd/status ... 54754?s=20

In addition, Maff got blackballed 15 years ago - https://twitter.com/offthepill7/status/ ... 65890?s=20

Regarding Scurll:
https://twitter.com/mystickttn/status/1 ... 25058?s=20

Scurll's statement - https://twitter.com/MartyScurll/status/ ... 80224?s=20

A number of ROH alumni have come up as well, with the worst seeming to be Dave Crist and Joey Ryan.

Considering the quantity and severity of exaggerations thrown towards Joey Ryan, should his "Penis Druids" match against Adam Page be removed from All In on Honor Club? What about his 2009-10 and 2017 catalog, considering that he made absolutely no remarkable footprint for ROH whatsoever?

Considering that Irish Airborne made no remarkable footprint for ROH either, should their matches be scrubbed from Honor Club as well? Should the fact that Dave Crist apparently used ROH as an avenue to be a sexual predator towards a former company photographer be taken into consideration for that?

Let's also not forget about another ROH alumni.

Alberto el Patron/Del Rio
https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/ ... f-the-road

If convicted, should Alberto's matches be removed from Honor Club as well, or do his contributions being well-received factor in?

Furthermore, should ROH founder Rob Feinstein's appearances for the company's early events be scrubbed out too?

[BurningHammer]

I would considering how easy it is to remove matches then of course ROH should delete that content. It doesn’t do anything but bring negativity to the promotion.

The Dan Maff situation is less clear, they are no details available of the previous situation and the current accusation although gross, It feels like that shitty ‘wrestling’ locker room mentality and honestly which may look terribly on me I can live with that as long as there have been no repeats in ROH and everyone is comfortable in the locker room with him around.

Marty is the most crucial matter, his statement which I think is clear to define as acceptance of what he did, and not apology. Personally if you take yourself and your morals away from what happened it’s a very much he said, she said and there are now two version of the events which is hard to say oh my god he raped her he needs to be sent away from wrestling especially if this is a one and only time occurrence. Now using my heart, and my own personal feelings I feel he should at least be suspended for a long period of time at the very least.

[monster mafia]

i dont want marty to leave , but this hurts a lot his reputation...i dont know what to think.

really sad because he is the leader of the company right now.

[Montana]

Think each case would obviously need to be looked at individually.

Idk... i'm not following all this super close... but why not let the authorities handle these accusations... and then once they are found guilty then consider removing parts of history. I could be wrong, but in a year or two a lot of this will blow over. Now i'm not saying the culture doesn't need to change, as it absolutely does. With that said, the ROH locker room appears to be one of the better locker rooms in the industry. Here nor there, felt AEW made the right call...suspensions, and getting assistance for the wrestlers. From what i've read, it seems like firing Maff/Marty seems a bit harsh as of now.

Folks like David Starr / Joey Ryan appear to be much worse than a lot of the other folks called out.

[McXal]

I’m hesitant to say that someone should lose their entire livelihood without having committed any crime - but the fact is that law does not equal morality. Marty’s actions here are unacceptable — and I’m not sure that, whilst well-intentioned, his statement was either appropriate or apologetic enough.

As someone who has been attending independent shows in the U.K. for almost 20 years now, this week has been heartbreakingly tough. I don’t know Marty personally. But I could list multiple examples of instances where I have seen or experienced him act like a stand up, genuinely nice guy - to me, my now-wife, and others. But I imagine there are people who would say the same about Joey Ryan. Being a ‘nice guy’ doesn’t excuse or entitle anyone to occasional bouts of inappropriate and/or predatory behaviour.

There needs to be a degree of contrition. Personally I think ROH should remove Marty as a performer for the time being (once running again) at the very least. I would suggest some work with relevant charities, some form of counselling/behavioural support (as with Sammy Guevara) be undertaken too.

However - as for his management position, I suspect the locker room rather polices itself here. Already on social media I’ve seen the likes of Martina, Brody, Haskins, Cary, Taylor (and more) like or retweet comments which very could be interpreted to criticise Scurll’s actions and words. I don’t quite know how his position of authority remains viable in the short term.

An awful situation for all involved. If I’m honest, whilst as a father of girls I find Marty’s actions totally detestable - if this was an isolated incident, he shows contrition and is willing to roll his sleeves up, suck up the justified condemnation which will rightly fly his way, and actively use his profile to help clean up the industry and make it a safer, more inclusive environment then I suspect this isn’t terminal for his career...

[NewROHFan2020]

Will AnHonorableMention be taking down their podcast interview with David Lagana? After all, he was accused and AHM was quick to condemn all those accused. Be kind of hypocritical to leave it up.

ROH shouldn’t do anything until stuff is official.

[supersonic]

Don’t just take the legal court of law into account, but also what’s best for business. Will fans support shows that still feature Maff and Scurll? That’s why Elgin was fucked in America and only had Impact as an option to return home.

[BurningHammer]

I think Marty has the biggest affect on that just for his profile and what he has done. I can’t see how fans at least the people who are decent human beings could be comfortable with him going on with life without some recompense for what he has done. If nothing more comes out about Maff I honestly believe he will be ok rightly or wrongly.

I just hope the locker room is speaking up about this and Joe, Gregg are listening. There are too many people who have been personally affected by or have loved ones that have had similar experiences. While so many are also fathers and mothers. I realise it’s Marty and I’m imagining it’s very hard for some but life can go on. You can find new friends, new people for roles in the company etc. If anyone like Ian, Gregg whoever reads this forum, I implore you please do the right thing and release him. ROH will come out of this better if they do something than if they don’t

[AnHonorableMention]

Will AnHonorableMention be taking down their podcast interview with David Lagana? After all, he was accused and AHM was quick to condemn all those accused. Be kind of hypocritical to leave it up.

ROH shouldn’t do anything until stuff is official.

You're about 4 days late on this. We had that along with a couple other episodes relating to someone involved taken down as well. If you're going to be a troll, at least tag me, or make sure I see this to remedy your question faster.

[AnHonorableMention]

Not that I have a say but I've been pretty clear on this from the get go. The only action is swift termination for all involved. End of story.

[AnHonorableMention]

Lastly, I saw Tyson mentioned and his deal with AEW. Mike, served his time, found religion, sought mental health treatment and does so continually to this day. That doesn't erase what he did, he'll be the first to admit it and how he copes with the guilt on a daily basis. I have been around a lot of people in my life growing up with a former prosecutor for a father who have committed crimes, not a one has shown the empathy and tried to repair their reputation like Mike Tyson has done. There's no erasing the action, but the follow up and penance after time served is what shows the character of a person. Seeing how Mike has handled his children, his current wife, and grown his brand shows that he's learned from his experience of disgusting criminal behavior.

[Shanahan]

Not that I have a say but I've been pretty clear on this from the get go. The only action is swift termination for all involved. End of story.

What happens after? Scurll blackballed? Goes away for awhile and re-appears 2 years from now? I'm not trying to be a dick...i really dont know what happens after all those guys are fired. Do some get 2nd chance? Maybe Japan? I'm at a lose.

[NewROHFan2020]

Will AnHonorableMention be taking down their podcast interview with David Lagana? After all, he was accused and AHM was quick to condemn all those accused. Be kind of hypocritical to leave it up.

ROH shouldn’t do anything until stuff is official.

You're about 4 days late on this. We had that along with a couple other episodes relating to someone involved taken down as well. If you're going to be a troll, at least tag me, or make sure I see this to remedy your question faster.

No troll, I am glad to see you stand by your convictions. Sorry, I don’t check your pod page or else I wouldn’t have asked. If it weren’t for the Lagana interview, I wouldn’t have even known your podcast existed. I only listened to that one and your G1 Supercard review. I don’t care about old ROH stuff. Nothing personal, just not my cup of tea.

[AnHonorableMention]

Will AnHonorableMention be taking down their podcast interview with David Lagana? After all, he was accused and AHM was quick to condemn all those accused. Be kind of hypocritical to leave it up.

ROH shouldn’t do anything until stuff is official.

You're about 4 days late on this. We had that along with a couple other episodes relating to someone involved taken down as well. If you're going to be a troll, at least tag me, or make sure I see this to remedy your question faster.

No troll, I am glad to see you stand by your convictions. Sorry, I don’t check your pod page or else I wouldn’t have asked. If it weren’t for the Lagana interview, I wouldn’t have even known your podcast existed. I only listened to that one and your G1 Supercard review. I don’t care about old ROH stuff. Nothing personal, just not my cup of tea.

I am beyond shocked to see someone not want to learn about what ROH used to be like when the company was so different and special. I'd really encourage you to listen not as a host but as a fan. I am a man of my word, and I am proud to stand by my beliefs and views because I feel like more often than not I let people indict themselves. Obviously the other two episodes we took down I won't get into but they shouldn't be hard to figure out why.

[AnHonorableMention]

Not that I have a say but I've been pretty clear on this from the get go. The only action is swift termination for all involved. End of story.

What happens after? Scurll blackballed? Goes away for awhile and re-appears 2 years from now? I'm not trying to be a dick...i really dont know what happens after all those guys are fired. Do some get 2nd chance? Maybe Japan? I'm at a lose.

I honestly don't know man. This is unprecedented territory. Between knowing some of the accused and some of the victims(including dating one at one point many years ago & someone who got caught up in the middle of the exploitation of his ex), this has been a very difficult time period and I just don't know how to process it all. Obviously, as I said with Tyson, the reaction to the actions are the big indicators of those who know the genuinely screwed up. Some will be blackballed, others will still pop up, I just don't know who falls into what category.

[NewROHFan2020]

You're about 4 days late on this. We had that along with a couple other episodes relating to someone involved taken down as well. If you're going to be a troll, at least tag me, or make sure I see this to remedy your question faster.

No troll, I am glad to see you stand by your convictions. Sorry, I don’t check your pod page or else I wouldn’t have asked. If it weren’t for the Lagana interview, I wouldn’t have even known your podcast existed. I only listened to that one and your G1 Supercard review. I don’t care about old ROH stuff. Nothing personal, just not my cup of tea.

I am beyond shocked to see someone not want to learn about what ROH used to be like when the company was so different and special. I'd really encourage you to listen not as a host but as a fan. I am a man of my word, and I am proud to stand by my beliefs and views because I feel like more often than not I let people indict themselves. Obviously the other two episodes we took down I won't get into but they shouldn't be hard to figure out why.

There’s only so much time in a day and wrestling isn’t my only hobby. I don’t really want to go back 15 years and watch old stuff when 95% of the talent isnt with ROH now. I only watch NWA and ROH. I don’t have the desire to go back and watch old NWA stuff either.

[supersonic]

https://411mania.com/wrestling/roh-news ... rohstrong/

ROH has removed Marty Scurll and Dan Maff from their roster page. Scurll and Maff are not listed either in the current or alumni section of the website.

[famicommander]

Lastly, I saw Tyson mentioned and his deal with AEW. Mike, served his time, found religion, sought mental health treatment and does so continually to this day. That doesn't erase what he did, he'll be the first to admit it and how he copes with the guilt on a daily basis. I have been around a lot of people in my life growing up with a former prosecutor for a father who have committed crimes, not a one has shown the empathy and tried to repair their reputation like Mike Tyson has done. There's no erasing the action, but the follow up and penance after time served is what shows the character of a person. Seeing how Mike has handled his children, his current wife, and grown his brand shows that he's learned from his experience of disgusting criminal behavior.

Tyson to this day denies he did anything wrong to Desiree Washington and he went to a juvenile detention facility despite being 25 when he committed the rape. Then he served less than 3 years of a 6 year sentence.

He's also a repeat offender. This is all just the stuff that came out AFTER he went to jail. His rap sheet pre-jail is longer:

In 1993 he was accused of a 1991 battery by a beauty pageant contestant.

In 1996 he was accused of sexual battery at a nightclub.

In 1998 he was sued for physical and verbal abuse by two women from an incident at a bistro.

In 1998 (one month later) he plead no contest to a misdemeanor assault for beating up two men after a car accident.

In 2001 he was accused of raping a 50 year old woman but no charges were filed.

In 2002 it was announced he was under investigation for another 2001 rape.

Later in 2002 he was under investigation for yet another 2001 rape.

In 2004 he accepted a plea deal after he beat up two autograph seekers.

He also wrote in his own book that he once climbed up on the roof of his house and began throwing cinder blocks at his then-wife because she "didn't like the peanut butter cookies he had baked". He told the story as if the wife were the unreasonable one for calling the police.

His "reform" happened because people thought he was funny in the Hangover. That's it. He's a freaking serial rapist, a serial woman beater, and a generally unstable, violent individual.

[AnHonorableMention]

Lastly, I saw Tyson mentioned and his deal with AEW. Mike, served his time, found religion, sought mental health treatment and does so continually to this day. That doesn't erase what he did, he'll be the first to admit it and how he copes with the guilt on a daily basis. I have been around a lot of people in my life growing up with a former prosecutor for a father who have committed crimes, not a one has shown the empathy and tried to repair their reputation like Mike Tyson has done. There's no erasing the action, but the follow up and penance after time served is what shows the character of a person. Seeing how Mike has handled his children, his current wife, and grown his brand shows that he's learned from his experience of disgusting criminal behavior.

Tyson to this day denies he did anything wrong to Desiree Washington and he went to a juvenile detention facility despite being 25 when he committed the rape. Then he served less than 3 years of a 6 year sentence.

He's also a repeat offender. This is all just the stuff that came out AFTER he went to jail. His rap sheet pre-jail is longer:

In 1993 he was accused of a 1991 battery by a beauty pageant contestant.

In 1996 he was accused of sexual battery at a nightclub.

In 1998 he was sued for physical and verbal abuse by two women from an incident at a bistro.

In 1998 (one month later) he plead no contest to a misdemeanor assault for beating up two men after a car accident.

In 2001 he was accused of raping a 50 year old woman but no charges were filed.

In 2002 it was announced he was under investigation for another 2001 rape.

Later in 2002 he was under investigation for yet another 2001 rape.

In 2004 he accepted a plea deal after he beat up two autograph seekers.

He also wrote in his own book that he once climbed up on the roof of his house and began throwing cinder blocks at his then-wife because she "didn't like the peanut butter cookies he had baked". He told the story as if the wife were the unreasonable one for calling the police.

His "reform" happened because people thought he was funny in the Hangover. That's it. He's a freaking serial rapist, a serial woman beater, and a generally unstable, violent individual.

Mike has been in therapy since his release and been arrested a grand total of zero times since serving his debt to society. Try again.

EDIT: Also holy shit you went back to June 25 to find this. Get a hobby.

[supersonic]

The thread was bumped by me with the Maff/Scurll update, therefore the attempt to dismiss Fami's response as being fueled by "obsesson" or whatever about Tyson has no validity, and neither does the ego, irritation, and hostility you frequently show towards him or me that's gonna result in a very unpleasant experience for you one day.