#SpeakingOut

[BurningHammer]

Watching that episode was actually more revolting than I thought it would be, despite how vile the content was from the wrestling side, and honestly the shit feeling I got listening to it from the victims point of view which saddeningly has been a far too common occurrence, I’ve read about and heard about it. Too me what made that episode hard to take was the sheer lack of contrition or realisation of really anyone’s part apart (in slight moments JR and RVD). The idea of this being normal behaviour or even just acceptable is really so fucking stupid, it doesn’t take being a man or what bravado that you need to secure yourself with to say that this is really damaging behaviour in so many aspects.

The lady involved deserves a tone of praise for how she dealt with the interview and what she went through. Less swinging your dick I’m someone’s face and asking someone to touch, and then forceably doing so is better for everyone involved in the world.

[famicommander]

I think RVD came across as someone who knew the bad stuff was going on and was frustrated by it but didn't understand what to do about it. Could he have done more to stop it? Yes. But he was the only wrestler interviewed whom I didn't think tried to excuse or rationalize the behavior at least. And he had no problem telling the truth about what he saw, at least.

JR came across as someone who directly enabled the behavior, then tried to play the victim and also cover for Vince as he always does.

[BurningHammer]

I think RVD came across as someone who knew the bad stuff was going on and was frustrated by it but didn't understand what to do about it. Could he have done more to stop it? Yes. But he was the only wrestler interviewed whom I didn't think tried to excuse or rationalize the behavior at least. And he had no problem telling the truth about what he saw, at least.

JR came across as someone who directly enabled the behavior, then tried to play the victim and also cover for Vince as he always does.

Yeah I think that’s exactly how it was for him, although I don’t think he hasn’t not been apart of in certain things of the ugly sides of the business (and I don’t mean weed and that has been a huge benefit to my life).

JR I’m sure, has his own lack of morales and values, he’s had too, to have success he has in the business. That said last night I felt he gave the answers as much honesty as he ever has. I’m sure that is a huge amount of bad JR has seen, heard about, dealt with in a variety of ways to make your toes curl and we will never hear anything about it and that can be a heavy weight to bare.

[supersonic]

Post Wrestling discussion of the Plane Ride from Hell
https://youtu.be/2vg5Ajx71gE

[supersonic]

Story from 5 years ago about Mrs. Doyle

https://cbs8.com/article/news/two-arres ... aceb31cbe5

SAN DIEGO (CNS) - A man and woman suspected of stealing some $80,000 worth of jewelry during a pair of burglaries at a North County antique shop were behind bars Monday.

Rob Scott, 53, was arrested in Nevada on Friday in connection with a restaurant burglary in Lake Tahoe and an outstanding warrant stemming from the break-in thefts at Consignment Classics in Encinitas, sheriff's Sgt. Rich Eaton said.

Later that day, Heidi Marie Doyle, 42, surrendered to detectives with the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. She was booked into the Vista Jail and had her initial court appearance in the case this morning.

The burglaries in the 200 block of South El Camino Real took place during the predawn hours of Aug. 20 and Sept. 2.

Surveillance cameras captured images of a man ransacking display cases at the business and a woman apparently casing the premises on the day of the second burglary.

Scott will be extradited to San Diego to face charges in connection with the two crimes, the sergeant said.

[Shanahan]

RVD saying DSOTR edited his comments in a way to make it seem like he saw Flair force woman to touch his genitals but he says didn't see anything like that.

[DougN]

Story from 5 years ago about Mrs. Doyle

https://cbs8.com/article/news/two-arres ... aceb31cbe5

SAN DIEGO (CNS) - A man and woman suspected of stealing some $80,000 worth of jewelry during a pair of burglaries at a North County antique shop were behind bars Monday.

Rob Scott, 53, was arrested in Nevada on Friday in connection with a restaurant burglary in Lake Tahoe and an outstanding warrant stemming from the break-in thefts at Consignment Classics in Encinitas, sheriff's Sgt. Rich Eaton said.

Later that day, Heidi Marie Doyle, 42, surrendered to detectives with the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. She was booked into the Vista Jail and had her initial court appearance in the case this morning.

The burglaries in the 200 block of South El Camino Real took place during the predawn hours of Aug. 20 and Sept. 2.

Surveillance cameras captured images of a man ransacking display cases at the business and a woman apparently casing the premises on the day of the second burglary.

Scott will be extradited to San Diego to face charges in connection with the two crimes, the sergeant said.

That has nothing to do with this case. Pulling up stories years before or after the case is irrelevant and all it does is look to discredit the victim.

You can be sexually assaulted and then 5 years later commit a crime. You can commit a crime and then 5 years later be sexually assaulted.

It has nothing to do with the sexual assault though.

[supersonic]

A defense attorney could potentially argue that this shows a history of premeditation to take down a score.

For whatever reason, the crew got served what was described as record-shattering cases of alcohol, far exceeding any amount Doyle had ever provided. It could be argued this was done with the intent of getting the crew in a state that would make them more prone to behaviors that led to the settlement.

[DougN]

Please don't do the "could potentially argue." No, either make the argument or don't. None of this devil's advocate stuff. The victim shaming is disgusting and it's a major reason why so many victims of sexual assault never come forward. They know every part of their life will be put under a microscope. And it's also a reason some attackers choose certain victims. (Completely unrelated to this case, but still valid).

If you don't think it happened, just say that. If you're unsure, just say that. But don't bring all this other crap that happened 14 years later.

Let me rephrase that.

What happened 14 years later has absolutely nothing to do with 2002's plane ride, an atmosphere so toxic and infamous that a TV show felt it deserved coverage.

[supersonic]

https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/145 ... 03107?s=21

It was never clear how the '90s DOJ investigation into WWE moved from child sexual abuse to drug dealing. But newly unredacted FBI docs show us where they went wrong, like discounting a video of Mel Phillips molesting a ring boy.

https://t.co/rPUlcan0gW

[supersonic]

Everyone implicated in Speaking Out needs to read this, absorb it thoroughly, and reflect on how their victims' experiences.

It is of course a fucking joke that the Florida Panthers are having Joel Quenneville coach the team but dodge the media.

Lazerus: Kyle Beach’s courage and humanity is in sharp contrast with the craven men who failed him

[supersonic]

If the likes of Meehan, Scurll, etc. are hoping to seek redemption, perhaps they should study James Franco. Of course, perhaps even there's no way he can ever redeem himself for his abuse of power dynamics. But there are things he says here (including why he was silent for years) that those in the pretend fighting business should probably take to heart.

https://people.com/movies/james-franco- ... legations/

[supersonic]

Am I alone in this?

Performers like Cardona, Andrade, Ricochet, Hangman, Omega, and Gresham will never fully get over with me as long as they choose not to publicly distance themselves from the likes of Moose, Scurll, and Alberto.

As long as they continue showing public support for these obvious scumbags, I can never get fully invested - I can never care if they get stuck in catering, stuck jobbing in the curtain-jerker, don't get optimal creative direction to gain upward momentum, etc. Nor do I care about how much buzz they generate for anything they do.

[DougN]

Not disagreeing, but have Hangman and Omega said anything about Marty Scrull lately? Have I missed that?

[KL_]

Not disagreeing, but have Hangman and Omega said anything about Marty Scrull lately? Have I missed that?

I believe this one is about Kenny Omega/Marty Scurll:

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2022/ ... wrestling/

Kenny was also criticized for his close friendship with, Marty Scurll, who was accused by a woman of sexually abusing her five years prior when she was 16 years old and intoxicated. Scurll admitted the incident took place, however, he said it was consensual. When asked if he would disavow Scurll, Omega replied, “Will you bump up Corny’s oxygen so he can maybe get through a podcast without wheezing through every word? It’s harsh on the ears from what a I hear”

[indyfan]

im not going to fault people for who they re friends with outside of wrestling.

I still watch Scurll matches because his wrestling in ring is great.

i still watch Benoit matches too.

i can seperate the entertainment side of wrestling with how they are in real life.

[supersonic]

Someone's Lying About How A Sex Offender Got On Kenny Omega's NJPW Show

There's a difference between consuming someone's past body of work (especially when that individual is dead and thus is unable to reap any benefits from it) and continuing to associate with that individual.

[indyfan]

yeah i can see that side. but i have no issues giving money to Gresham or Kenny Omega no matter whoever their friends are.

[DougN]

Yeah, I don't know, guys. I get where you're coming from, but him getting defensive for being asked to disavow Marty Scurll while already in an argument is not really the smoking gun I think people want it to be. It's not like someone asked him point blank out of nowhere for him to distance himself from Marty and then he did this.

This isn't an easy topic. I don't think the Bucks and Kenny and Hangman and Cody should have to come out and publicly shame and disavow Marty for something Marty did years before they knew him. ESPECIALLY because it's gotta to be hard to find out your trusted friend and colleague is a legit terrible person. They weren't associated at the time. They weren't even in the same company.

We demand these people to take such a hard stance when they're just trying to make sense of it as well. They don't owe us an explanation when they haven't worked with Marty since WELL before the story broke and as far as I know, they haven't commented on it since. Now, if I'm wrong and they have, then I'll change my stance. Easily.

I really don't want to equate sexual predators to nutjobs, but are people clamoring for Danielson to disavow Kane? Are people clamoring now for Danielson to be held accountable for saying glowing things about Vince McMahon, a man who has had several credible sexual assault allegations against him?

I just think there's a double-standard in how we view people because we want to find something to criticize them on. Again, if I'm wrong and Cody, the Bucks, Hangman, or Kenny have said something specific that minimized or defended Marty, then I'll change my stance. Otherwise, let's drop the witch hunt for associates. It's not only vindictive, it's really damaging to the cause of rooting out actual bad people in the industry.

RE: Chasyn Rance

Omega was very, very apologetic and transparent after the fact. And sure, you could not believe him and argue "how could he not know?" But then I'd ask why you're so hyper-focused on Omega again instead of people who have very WILLFULLY and PUBLICALLY associated with Chasyn Rance SINCE that show like TJ Wilson and Natalya. There's also a TON of talent who have wrestled on shows with him since Rance was outed publicly in 2018 including, but not limited to, Andrew Everett, Kiera Hogan, Red Velvet, and Austin Gunn. Chasyn Rance has been booked on a dozen shows since that story broke. I understand Kenny Omega is in a different tier and position of power than all the wrestlers who work those shows, but I highly doubt most people have gone back to look at who has worked with Chasyn Rance since that Omega show or who has worked on his shows.

We're just cherry-picking our outrage here and that's wrong.

Your original question was "are you alone in this?" No, you are not. I think people who continue to actively associate with people named as being horrendously scummy are shitty. But I think there's a distinction between that and those who used to be friends and just maybe haven't sent out a tweet condemning them to hell like we all want.

I'm also admittedly confused here. Less than six months ago, you were playing devil's advocate for Ric Flair over the Plane Ride From Hell, but now we have to deal in absolutes over past association?

Final stray thoughts: who is Gresham associating with? I missed his name the first time around in the post. What did I miss there? Also, just spit-balling, but is there a reason we leave Rich Swann out of this?

[Shanahan]

Final stray thoughts: who is Gresham associating with? I missed his name the first time around in the post. What did I miss there? Also, just spit-balling, but is there a reason we leave Rich Swann out of this?

Moose.