NJPW/ROH Relationship Status

[Wilson]

We've seen the cross-promotional strategies between the companies slide since the G1 Supercard, so let's have a focused thread on all the changes we've seen so far and the ones that are developing.

Changes:
- The Global Wars Espectacular tour, which paired directly with CMLL rather than with New Japan
- Big American New Japan tour coinciding with an ROH PPV weekend
- Noticeable lack of ROH talent brought into New Japan other than the G1 and BOSJ tournaments
- Likewise, a lack of New Japan talent working in ROH recently
- New Japan finally touring solo in long-standing ROH markets
- Young Lions Shota Umino and Ren Narita taking excursions to the UK and the LA Dojo respectively (CMLL already has Kawato and rev Pro already has Oka, it is very striking to see neither Umino or Narita being planted in ROH)

[AnHonorableMention]

I was told directly from someone on the roster in a very featured position who is tight with management the relationship is done. MSG was the beginning of the end.

[kovs27]

I've figured if I'm New Japan and running in MSG, Dallas, Super J Cup on the Pacific Coast and the shows coming up in the Northeast, why would I want to overexpose my wrestlers by having them show up in ROH for extended runs on top of this. We may still see some of the Young Lions work in ROH after their time in the Dojo but even that I'd wait until next year at the earliest. I'm not say the relationship isn't strained but these just seem like logical conclusions to me.

[Montana]

I think it's fair to say the relationship is changing. Neither company needs each others as much as they have in the past. Both need a change, and in some cases less is more.

This year we've seen GoD, Juice, and David Finlay in ROH, along with all the LA Dojo guys. Kojima and nakajima at WOTW too. Juice moved to Japan full time. GoD i assume finished their run. I assume Finlay will return to ROH when he's healed from his injury, although not really needed.

We've seen a lot of ROH wrestlers in G1 and BOSJ. It's not like the two companies dislike each other. NJPW business has been on the rise the last 5 years with ROH, so why break things off completely. ROH even spent a majority of time showcasing NJPW at MSG. Why wouldn't NJPW want the LA dojo guys to be shown off in ROH?

[Wilson]

We've seen a lot of ROH wrestlers in G1 and BOSJ. It's not like the two companies dislike each other. NJPW business has been on the rise the last 5 years with ROH, so why break things off completely. ROH even spent a majority of time showcasing NJPW at MSG. Why wouldn't NJPW want the LA dojo guys to be shown off in ROH?

There were rumors that there was very much strained feelings with the match/angle layout of G1 Supercard, but other than that it doesn't feel like they dislike each other as much as both sides seem agnostic toward one another. It looks clear that ROH is much more hedging their bets on CMLL to be their co-pilot partner promotion.

I guess with the LA Dojo boys it reads like a bit like New Japan stiffed ROH. Unless the belief is that Shibata is some revolutionary trainer, it's really odd that New Japan is sending a Young Lion to another training program rather than work in an actual promotion. I also imagine that the LA Dojo talents will be under the rare appearance.

Before this year, I would've believed that the relationship would remain basically for as long as both companies resembled themselves, but obviously AEW has come into things. Whatever the beef is between AEW and New Japan, I really doubt it's worth how valuable an Elite/Bullet Club feud would be, considering how they both probably would like to siphon off more of the WWE audience.

[AnHonorableMention]

We've seen a lot of ROH wrestlers in G1 and BOSJ. It's not like the two companies dislike each other. NJPW business has been on the rise the last 5 years with ROH, so why break things off completely. ROH even spent a majority of time showcasing NJPW at MSG. Why wouldn't NJPW want the LA dojo guys to be shown off in ROH?

There were rumors that there was very much strained feelings with the match/angle layout of G1 Supercard, but other than that it doesn't feel like they dislike each other as much as both sides seem agnostic toward one another. It looks clear that ROH is much more hedging their bets on CMLL to be their co-pilot partner promotion.

I guess with the LA Dojo boys it reads like a bit like New Japan stiffed ROH. Unless the belief is that Shibata is some revolutionary trainer, it's really odd that New Japan is sending a Young Lion to another training program rather than work in an actual promotion. I also imagine that the LA Dojo talents will be under the rare appearance.

Before this year, I would've believed that the relationship would remain basically for as long as both companies resembled themselves, but obviously AEW has come into things. Whatever the beef is between AEW and New Japan, I really doubt it's worth how valuable an Elite/Bullet Club feud would be, considering how they both probably would like to siphon off more of the WWE audience.

The talent did not like how they were treated and booking was a big argument as well. The Enzo and Cass stuff really rubbed Gedo the wrong way and Juice is a very big part of the equation with how he was used. ROH did this to themselves.

[SandsShifter]

Is there chance for reconciliation, or is it totally over-over?

[AnHonorableMention]

Is there chance for reconciliation, or is it totally over-over?

Never say never, but odds are very slim. Hospice.

[BurningHammer]

Judging by the interview Koff did, the relationship is there to a point it’s just not what it was. You can tell he feels rather angry about it and how he feels ROH was used through the partnership but I don’t think it’s serious from both sides that it can’t be brought back. I wouldn’t be surprised if other promotions are used instead now if the interview is anything to go by.

Regardless of feelings or how talent may have wanted to be used. New Japan has outgrown the stature of ROH in the US, but they will need to be careful, tag matches can only draw an audience so far and first time events only can happen every so often now with the amount they have run in the states. New Japan are already starting to see those affects in the Weat Coast areas. It will be interesting to see how New Japan draws after a couple of runs of shows in these areas. I think overall the UK has become a much stronger market for them considering the draws they have had here. It’s also a market much in need of a big promotion fans can feel attached too, where as the US is a market saturated at this point.

[Lynx]

Will be interesting to see if RoH sends someone for junior and heavyweight tag team tournaments.

[kovs27]

I will admit to have some disappointment in the upcoming NY card. That's mainly because I don't want to see Yoshi-Hashi at all, let alone challenging for a title. I understand why the match is taking place from a storyline perspective. I don't mind the tag matches, I expected that.I actually like the Philly main event with the elimination style tag.

[alexsmellzzz]

Meltzer said this morning that Cobb is going for the tag team tournament. But that he didn't know who his partner would be. And that he expects Bandido to go for the junior one.

[alexsmellzzz]

New Japan's US shows this weekend don't look all that special. I think with some ROH guys on there, they could be stronger cards. But New Japan also has a lot of buzz which ROH doesn't have right now.

New Japan could honestly send some lower-midcard guys down to Ring of Honor and it'd feel special. ROH never really knew how to use the big name New Japan guys properly... in Vegas, it'd always be like Okada vs Dalton Castle... Shibata vs Silas Young... Suzuki vs Cody. And it'd be decent but never anything spectacular. I think ROH is better off using some of the smaller names, because they match up with where their roster is at right now.

[Lynx]

I think that the issue was that RoH would get someone like Okada and its like he can't lose and he might appear again next year. So not much you can really do with that?

With, for example, GoD it was a bit different. They had, including MSG, 4 matches against Briscoes and one against Lethal/Gresham in relatively speaking short time period so they were able to construct a decent storyline. Only other example of this that I now remember was Kushida's TV title reign, anything else that I don't remember now?

[alexsmellzzz]

I think that the issue was that RoH would get someone like Okada and its like he can't lose and he might appear again next year. So not much you can really do with that?

With, for example, GoD it was a bit different. They had, including MSG, 4 matches against Briscoes and one against Lethal/Gresham in relatively speaking short time period so they were able to construct a decent storyline. Only other example of this that I now remember was Kushida's TV title reign, anything else that I don't remember now?

I think Okada should have definitely been wrestling better talent than Moose and Dalton Castle, that's for sure. Even if Okada has to win, he's still perceived to be way better than ROH's roster by pretty much the whole world. So losing to Okada... not really a bad look for anybody.

Ishii also did a few shows, winning the TV title at an NJPW/ROH Japan show and then getting beat by Bobby Fish for it at a US show.

[Montana]

We've seen a lot of ROH wrestlers in G1 and BOSJ. It's not like the two companies dislike each other. NJPW business has been on the rise the last 5 years with ROH, so why break things off completely. ROH even spent a majority of time showcasing NJPW at MSG. Why wouldn't NJPW want the LA dojo guys to be shown off in ROH?

There were rumors that there was very much strained feelings with the match/angle layout of G1 Supercard, but other than that it doesn't feel like they dislike each other as much as both sides seem agnostic toward one another. It looks clear that ROH is much more hedging their bets on CMLL to be their co-pilot partner promotion.

I guess with the LA Dojo boys it reads like a bit like New Japan stiffed ROH. Unless the belief is that Shibata is some revolutionary trainer, it's really odd that New Japan is sending a Young Lion to another training program rather than work in an actual promotion. I also imagine that the LA Dojo talents will be under the rare appearance.

Before this year, I would've believed that the relationship would remain basically for as long as both companies resembled themselves, but obviously AEW has come into things. Whatever the beef is between AEW and New Japan, I really doubt it's worth how valuable an Elite/Bullet Club feud would be, considering how they both probably would like to siphon off more of the WWE audience.

The talent did not like how they were treated and booking was a big argument as well. The Enzo and Cass stuff really rubbed Gedo the wrong way and Juice is a very big part of the equation with how he was used. ROH did this to themselves.

It's too bad if thats truly how NJPW feels. ROH put the NJPW matches on as a showcase with the most time, in the prime spots on the card. Yet they didn't like the booking? And just so we are all tracking NJPW's doesn't like that ROH booked Juice in a No DQ at G1 Supercard, Yet book Juice and Moxley in a No DQ match?!? How about GoD no selling for Briscoes, and VE. Did NJPW not like the booking of GoD winning the ROH tag titles?? I'm pretty sure NJPW business has been up the past 5 years with ROH.

I can see them being upset about not being in the loop on the Enzo/Cass thing, but still.

Think ROH & NJPW will be better off together in the midst of AEW. Not saying they need to do 6-8 shows together, but both would be stronger together, instead going solo.

[AnHonorableMention]

There were rumors that there was very much strained feelings with the match/angle layout of G1 Supercard, but other than that it doesn't feel like they dislike each other as much as both sides seem agnostic toward one another. It looks clear that ROH is much more hedging their bets on CMLL to be their co-pilot partner promotion.

I guess with the LA Dojo boys it reads like a bit like New Japan stiffed ROH. Unless the belief is that Shibata is some revolutionary trainer, it's really odd that New Japan is sending a Young Lion to another training program rather than work in an actual promotion. I also imagine that the LA Dojo talents will be under the rare appearance.

Before this year, I would've believed that the relationship would remain basically for as long as both companies resembled themselves, but obviously AEW has come into things. Whatever the beef is between AEW and New Japan, I really doubt it's worth how valuable an Elite/Bullet Club feud would be, considering how they both probably would like to siphon off more of the WWE audience.

The talent did not like how they were treated and booking was a big argument as well. The Enzo and Cass stuff really rubbed Gedo the wrong way and Juice is a very big part of the equation with how he was used. ROH did this to themselves.

It's too bad if thats truly how NJPW feels. ROH put the NJPW matches on as a showcase with the most time, in the prime spots on the card. Yet they didn't like the booking? And just so we are all tracking NJPW's doesn't like that ROH booked Juice in a No DQ at G1 Supercard, Yet book Juice and Moxley in a No DQ match?!? How about GoD no selling for Briscoes, and VE. Did NJPW not like the booking of GoD winning the ROH tag titles?? I'm pretty sure NJPW business has been up the past 5 years with ROH.

I can see them being upset about not being in the loop on the Enzo/Cass thing, but still.

Think ROH & NJPW will be better off together in the midst of AEW. Not saying they need to do 6-8 shows together, but both would be stronger together, instead going solo.

The general distrust of management, the Enzo and cass stuff, which put GOD at risk due to not being told this was happening, arguing over what should end the show, the ladder match or okada, and ROH taking too much credit for selling out the building have all been brought up. There’s also things like travel and accommodations people weren’t happy with during the tour with Kojima.

It’s sad, that people like Joe Koff present such a positive view of the relationship publicly, yet it’s a total opposite privately. That’s not how you mend fences.

[ICHIFUJI]

ROH must do is keep RUSH away from
NAITO & RUSH for NJPW World Tag League.

[supersonic]

https://pwinsider.com/article/129966/ju ... e.html?p=1

It was announced live in the venue there would be a delay starting due to a logistical issue. We are told that the ambulance required by the New York State Athletic Commission to be on hand is stuck in NYC traffic. Once it arrives, they will begin the show.

Live in the venue, they are airing clips of matches on the screen. The crowd is starting to get a little restless.

7:32 PM Update - They are still waiting on the ambulance. Cameramen are taking their place around ringside. It appears they are no closer to starting.

7:57 PM Update - New Japan's Vice President and Rocky Romero came out and apologized to the crowd for the "technical issues." They tossed t-shirts to the crowd. Romero asked the fans to bear with them and promised to rock NYC with tonight's.

Based on numerous sources, here is the problem. The ambulance company that the Hammerstein Ballroom uses for all their events (and used last night for a concert) did not show up as scheduled. The belief originally was that the ambulance was stuck in traffic, but when the venue called the ambulance company to check up on their status, they were told that the ambulance company received a phone call this morning telling them tonight's show was canceled and therefore they were not needed - and were now not available. Someone involved in the show was able to scramble and get a FDNY ambulance to come to the show and FDNY offered to help and remain until the show could get another ambulance to take their place, so that New Japan could star holding matches. However, we are told that New York State rules would not allow that and everyone is working on getting another ambulance there. The Commission does not allow matches to take place unless there are EMTs with an ambulance present at the venue. As you can imagine, everyone working the show is beyond stressed at the moment.

8:14 PM - The ambulance just arrived at the front of the venue. Once they are parked behind the building and EMTs are stationed in the venue, the show will be allowed to begin.

It is the Commission who are holding up the show. They have also given very strict rules for tonight. No chairs, no tables, no blood, no whipping into the guard rails, no fighting in the crowd.

[dhads7161]

They followed everything but the guardrail part.