Death Before Dishonor 2019 Thread (9/27 Las Vegas)

[alexsmellzzz]

Lethal/Gresham has always been a very competitive match. Looking forward to this one which I’m guessing will have a grudge match feel to it. And as far as topping the iron man match goes... I actually thought that was maybe the 3rd best of all the matches they’ve had. Masters of the Craft and the one before that were both better, imo. I’m just glad we’re getting another one and that I’ll be able to see it live.

[alexsmellzzz]

Yeah, this looks like it can result in another underwhelming main event because everyone has to get their shit in.

I like Silas and he probably should be on PPV, but Vincent and bouncers are pre-show material at best.

I'm not sure about Lethal/Gresham. You'd think that they'd protect Lethal before the tournament, but it also feels like Gresham has to win here and fully turn heel? I probably would have done that match on UK instead.

You’re right about Silas. He deserves much better than what he’s been given the last year or so. He had an insane match with Lethal a couple years back in Vegas. He always looks good in Vegas actually. Now he has to team with that chump. If it’s a 5 minute match I won’t complain. But if they really try to stretch that crap out to 10+, I’ll be one of the first in the crowd to start chanting boring.

[AlexROH]

The tag match really makes sense and has been build all over the tour. Silas made the turn on the Bouncers and taught Woods that he should have alliances with people.

The match makes sense also bc Kingdom and Bouncers have been feuding for a long time and also this will be a Bar Room Brawl Match, which could be really fun.

I dont see Silas bad. I mean he has spoken about how Happy he is with his role all the year. He's helping Woods and both have done a fantastic work the last 2 months with a fantastic match with Lethal and Gresham on Milwaukee. He's helping young guys and making interesting matches on the low-midcard giving them a story.

If I have been more inactive recently is bc all of the negativity i read when i enter this forum. I dont even post reviews anymore bc I feel like you'll say everything is horrible.

ROH is in a bad moment, but if you dont see any change of direction since the Bully incident qnd think that everything remains the same, I'm pretty sure you are talking without watching the show.

This is a hobby and we should talk about things we enjoy, not telling people how bad is something they enjoy and how they should be watching other things, specially in my case, that I watch almost every company besides WWE lol haha.

Sorry for the long text and a little of offtopic, but that's something I wanted to say since some time ago.

[Lynx]

Hey, I enjoy RoH, I just really don't like Vincent and bouncers

[alexsmellzzz]

The tag match really makes sense and has been build all over the tour. Silas made the turn on the Bouncers and taught Woods that he should have alliances with people.

The match makes sense also bc Kingdom and Bouncers have been feuding for a long time and also this will be a Bar Room Brawl Match, which could be really fun.

I dont see Silas bad. I mean he has spoken about how Happy he is with his role all the year. He's helping Woods and both have done a fantastic work the last 2 months with a fantastic match with Lethal and Gresham on Milwaukee. He's helping young guys and making interesting matches on the low-midcard giving them a story.

If I have been more inactive recently is bc all of the negativity i read when i enter this forum. I dont even post reviews anymore bc I feel like you'll say everything is horrible.

ROH is in a bad moment, but if you dont see any change of direction since the Bully incident qnd think that everything remains the same, I'm pretty sure you are talking without watching the show.

This is a hobby and we should talk about things we enjoy, not telling people how bad is something they enjoy and how they should be watching other things, specially in my case, that I watch almost every company besides WWE lol haha.

Sorry for the long text and a little of offtopic, but that's something I wanted to say since some time ago.

Sorry man, always going to post my opinion. Look at my old posts, never was negative until this company made the laughable decisions it’s made in the last year or so. Used to LOVE everything ROH. Seriously, go look at my old posts. I’ll be positive when ROH gets back to being good again.

[monster mafia]

We all love roh Alex, but that match sucks.. period

Maybe they can deliver so put them in a pre show.

I don't want another 10 minutes main event unless rush going to win the belt.

[maxx_powerz]

I think Marty & PCO getting "stuck" with Colt & Kenny is what's bugging me the most, the rest of the card is pretty good (excluding the WOH match and Bouncers tag obvs). Really wish they could have gotten Shelley for Cabana's spot. Based on booking, there's not much they can do, Kenny King kind of has to be there. I'd have been more excited if they changed the brackets so we got PCO / Dalton at the PPV and Haskins / King the next night.

For some positivity, for a show with only four matches announced, GBH might be really good. Really excited for Shelley / Gresham. If we get semifinals of Scurll / Bandido & PCO / Haskins, any final would be great.

[kovs27]

The tag match really makes sense and has been build all over the tour. Silas made the turn on the Bouncers and taught Woods that he should have alliances with people.

The match makes sense also bc Kingdom and Bouncers have been feuding for a long time and also this will be a Bar Room Brawl Match, which could be really fun.

I dont see Silas bad. I mean he has spoken about how Happy he is with his role all the year. He's helping Woods and both have done a fantastic work the last 2 months with a fantastic match with Lethal and Gresham on Milwaukee. He's helping young guys and making interesting matches on the low-midcard giving them a story.

If I have been more inactive recently is bc all of the negativity i read when i enter this forum. I dont even post reviews anymore bc I feel like you'll say everything is horrible.

ROH is in a bad moment, but if you dont see any change of direction since the Bully incident qnd think that everything remains the same, I'm pretty sure you are talking without watching the show.

This is a hobby and we should talk about things we enjoy, not telling people how bad is something they enjoy and how they should be watching other things, specially in my case, that I watch almost every company besides WWE lol haha.

Sorry for the long text and a little of offtopic, but that's something I wanted to say since some time ago.

I've felt that way a few times this year. It only takes one great show to turn that negativity around. I was surprised how well received Manhatten Mayhem was. I was there and had a good time but didn't expect people to have enjoyed it as much as they did. I agree this is just a hobby and we shouldn't dwell on the negative but there is nothing wrong with not liking something on the show and mentioning it. It's a good way to start a conversation with others about what you would rather see. Don't let it get to you and don't be afraid to put reviews up.

I think this forum is a lot better about constructive criticism than just saying "ROH sucks."

[Wilson]

Updated the match card in the OP.

I think the Young/Woods team against the Bouncers is a really terrible match to put on PPV, or basically anywhere other than TV or one of those Unscripted nights. It's just very against the tone of ROH matches. If Honorclub didn't make these shows much more affordable, I'd definitely chime in with the groans but I understand putting full-time roster members on PPV cards. ROH more than ever should be in the mindset to be putting on PPVs that look like home runs, and some of these matches do look like that, and people will continue to question how their cards are shaped when they do the near-pointless undercard tag matches or flailing WOH maches.

On the appropriate amount of criticism on the board, I really don't think this community is being overly cynical about things in aggregate. Business is looking rough, but I read positive takeaways all the time. More to that, I think it's incredibly important to feel confident that in places like this your any kind of criticism or praise will be evaluated on their own terms, it just makes everybody else sharper. There are fewer shitheads here than ever.

My own feelings on ROH change all the time. I think things have been good, though my lack of confidence in management prevents me from looking forward to their direction or even shows in sequence for any extended amount of time. If you asked me about the day-to-day progress of talent, how their midcard looks, how talent is being developed, how shows generally come off, I would say things are good, but there are much larger issues that remove the varnish of their steady baseline of quality.

[Reaper G]

Given that Rush is working DBD instead of the CMLL anniversary show, he'd damn well better win the title.

[BurningHammer]

though my lack of confidence in management prevents me from looking forward to their direction or even shows in sequence for any extended amount of time.

Do you find it is a trust issue to do the right thing?, as I think this is a major issue for ROH where fans don't feel they can trust them to make the right decission when it needs to be made. I think it's why people wont commit, they just feel their emotionall investment will be wasted. You can see it with RUSH and Taven, people don't or wont believe RUSH is wining and that creates a negativity that is hard to get rid of because people have already moved on to something that does feed their emotional investment. If RUSH does win I hope it's a start for people to reafirm their belief that ROH can be a company that does the right thing, that the ride they are taken on wont be wasted.

[AnHonorableMention]

though my lack of confidence in management prevents me from looking forward to their direction or even shows in sequence for any extended amount of time.

Do you find it is a trust issue to do the right thing?, as I think this is a major issue for ROH where fans don't feel they can trust them to make the right decission when it needs to be made. I think it's why people wont commit, they just feel their emotionall investment will be wasted. You can see it with RUSH and Taven, people don't or wont believe RUSH is wining and that creates a negativity that is hard to get rid of because people have already moved on to something that does feed their emotional investment. If RUSH does win I hope it's a start for people to reafirm their belief that ROH can be a company that does the right thing, that the ride they are taken on wont be wasted.

Best post on this board in months.

[kovs27]

For a long time it's felt like the words "Hunter Johnston has been removed as booker" would create the biggest buzz ROH could garner.

[alexsmellzzz]

I feel like with this DBD show... it’s going to be good. But is it going to be great? I don’t know. For a while they were on an insane hot streak with their PPVs just being really consistent. It kind of got to the point where it was like, expected that while the smaller shows were ok, the PPVs were always nonstop good stuff.

We’ve talked all of their problems to death. I could post a million suggestions, but it’s really up to ROH to keep me around as a fan.

I’m going to the PPV with a buddy who likes wrestling and a buddy who’s just kind of a casual fan. If it’s a disappointing show, I’m going to be bummed out that I took my friends to it. If I seriously have to explain to my friends that Taven won because he’s a buddy of people that run the company, that’s going to really suck. ROH should’ve done the right thing at MSG. They didn’t. Now they really need to do the right thing in Vegas. Start some programs that people can actually care about. Book good wrestling again and not jokey crap. But do they even have the roster at this point to do that? Idk

[AnHonorableMention]

For a long time it's felt like the words "Hunter Johnston has been removed as booker" would create the biggest buzz ROH could garner.

I think that would cause more panic than anything because Bubba & Joey would have the power. Right now they need to completely and totally clean house. Everyone, Delirious, Joey, Bubba, they all have to go and an entire new team or individual must be brought in to handle the procedures. It will never happen.

1. Delirious is essentially the son Joe Koff never had
2. The office is afraid of Bubba Ray
3. Firing Joey could lead to him getting back on drugs and they don't want that publicity

[monster mafia]

lets talk about wrestling.

[AnHonorableMention]

lets talk about wrestling.

Literally every post above you is about wrestling. Add something constructive or don't post if you can't.

[alexsmellzzz]

lets talk about wrestling.

Are you the same guy who was posting “let’s be positive, guys”?

[kovs27]

For a long time it's felt like the words "Hunter Johnston has been removed as booker" would create the biggest buzz ROH could garner.

I think that would cause more panic than anything because Bubba & Joey would have the power. Right now they need to completely and totally clean house. Everyone, Delirious, Joey, Bubba, they all have to go and an entire new team or individual must be brought in to handle the procedures. It will never happen.

1. Delirious is essentially the son Joe Koff never had
2. The office is afraid of Bubba Ray
3. Firing Joey could lead to him getting back on drugs and they don't want that publicity

Honest question.....could Delirious and Joey be reassigned to do something else for the company? I've never worked on the inside I don't know what other positions are needed to run a wrestling company. Couldn't they just send Bubba home and let his contract run out. If they are that afraid of him just do it over the phone. Tell him we are going in a different direction, we'll pay you for the time left.

[AnHonorableMention]

For a long time it's felt like the words "Hunter Johnston has been removed as booker" would create the biggest buzz ROH could garner.

I think that would cause more panic than anything because Bubba & Joey would have the power. Right now they need to completely and totally clean house. Everyone, Delirious, Joey, Bubba, they all have to go and an entire new team or individual must be brought in to handle the procedures. It will never happen.

1. Delirious is essentially the son Joe Koff never had
2. The office is afraid of Bubba Ray
3. Firing Joey could lead to him getting back on drugs and they don't want that publicity

Honest question.....could Delirious and Joey be reassigned to do something else for the company? I've never worked on the inside I don't know what other positions are needed to run a wrestling company. Couldn't they just send Bubba home and let his contract run out. If they are that afraid of him just do it over the phone. Tell him we are going in a different direction, we'll pay you for the time left.

I cannot answer the question of re-assignment because in the corporate world that's essentially a very loaded question and would depend on whether they are contracted for a position, and language is in the deal that deals with task assignment. For example, my real job has me listed as a virtual consultant but often times I am asked to work with certain clients who have larger data pools than others. There is language in my contract specifically stating I am required to work a minimum of 56 hours a week and no maximum. I bill by the hour and am paid when I work. Delirious has been around so long his deal may be different from Joey & Bubba's. Lot of variables.

They could send Bubba home but then he's free to go on his radio show and bad mouth the company. Do the want to risk more bad publicity considering who they donate money to and how they dictate news commentators? There is, I believe and have been told a genuine fear of his behavior publicly.

Bottom line, you need someone or some people in place before replacing people who have those jobs and a justification for removal. I think the justification is there, from a product and attendance standpoint and the dirt between Bubba and Delirious's behaviors over the years speaks for itself.