AnHonorableMention wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:00 pm
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm I think matches are the main issue ROH doesn't have the roster to cope with using multiple talents within one match, look at how many talents were in the main event of the both shows, your telling me if they had split that up a couple of times and said had Lethal vs Cobb or Jay Briscoe vs Taven that wouldn't have moved more tickets than it did, for me it would. The only way if you are going to do Champions vs All Stars your roster has to be super strong and althought two of the undercard matches I really enjoy as matches the rest just doesn't deliver for me and that's where ROH needs to be a thousand times better as it's upper to midcard can generally be excellent they need a much better undercard and a couple of real top stars to push it along.
It doesn't matter where the talent is placed, there's nobody must see because they have no layers. Jay Lethal is a great example. He's phenomenal. He's the Franchise. What does that mean, explain it. Add layers to Jay Lethal and when he's beat it means more. It's not about quality but the quantity of good and unique matches combined with the story being told.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm
You said ROH isn't using matches and Finishes to matter, well they just did it two days in a row with Cobb so I would say yes they have brought him back after loosing so quickly and well.
Winning two matches with no mic time or intentions being declared. Weak effort.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pmI think the Chemistry is their now within matches and it's being shown in that element it just hasn't been nailed down enough or really developed outside of that and I tottally agree on that it's been the worst part of it especially when they had to randomly add PJ I really hated that.
PJ hasn't been great. To be fair, his body is over its limit of injuries and pain. He had one hell of a future but risky lifestyle choices = current day PJ. You need a reason for 3 randos to be unified, they have to flesh it out. AEW does that. NXT does that, WWE albeit poorly tries. ROH doesn't even do that.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pmFlips really only been injured this last year which has been unfortunate but in a way I think it's helped his charachter as he's had the excuse to be the guy that takes out people with never actually getting in the ring. I am very much with you on the speaking part needs to just say silent and he can do that with his change. Just be a silent killer in and out of the ring.
What is his character? What makes him a mercenary? He grew a beard joined up with Marty and this is their holdover from being the elite. Again, lazy booking.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm It's about the competitive edge a wrestler should have being up against the best and proving you are and getting gold would solidify LifeBlood as something going forward, especially if they go on a long run having great matches, which will then help build towards fans caring about them more in ROH.
Belts don't make the man, the man makes the belts. Getting gold means nothing if they have no reasoning to have it or it feels forced. Putting the belts on them now feels forced. They need a reason to restore honor, and beating the most honorable soldiers of ROH doesn't do that.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm I would agree about his booking up till about a month ago but Shane has really brought out the best of himself with his promo's which booking will have a hand in, the only reason you are going to tell Shanes story is to babyface him more and up till now he has played a heel so their is no point in telling his hard life story, you shouldn't feel sympothy for a heel in anyway. I would totally do that life story if they plan to give him depth and connect more with a wider audience.
The whole point was he shouldn't be a heel. He's a guy slamming the big corporate masters, that's babyface stuff in modern times.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pmAgreed, don't like the group as I would much rather have Gresham bring in CCK and fued with Lethal, or for the Three man titles
The sloot belts need to go, they mean nothing and add nothing. "Because belts" should be the ROH and WWE slogan. Too many belts not enough reasons to care.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm If he's already stated to everyone backstage he's left why would you give him any incentive, if he was undecided of course that would have been a natural thing to do but going by all reports he has always been leaving. I would never have King with a manager, Destro coming in for PCO at a later date for sure and I wouldn't be surprised if that's coming.
Any smart businessman wouldn't declare he's leaving. Which means he still has the option to stay. Has he told people he's leaving? Why is he getting booked 50/50? You job a guy out leaving. King with a manager covers his lack of promo skills. Destro should already have been here with King and PCO.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pmAgreed but I can understand the reasoning behind the push RUSH had, he has only really started to develop his english, so he needs time and does the promotion in dealing with how to relay a mexican star to it's audience. He has needed to work on a couple of things as a worker which he obviously has, especially his selling and timing he has become much better within ROH, like most people do.
Actions speak louder than words, Rush destroying everyone in his path does the talking for him, and he's got the catchphrase already. He's ready, more so than anyone including the king of the honor club girls.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pmReally backstage stuff doesn't doesn't interest me, if bridges have been mended people have put bullshit behind them then just let it stay there.
It's not bridges or anything it's just people Delirious being so stubborn and to bend so far the other way goes to show far he's willing to go to cover his own ass and keep his job.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm If Woods can get it in the ring and that's a big if right now then he will be a huge assest to the company, he looks to have improved a bit but he really needs to work on his moveset and timing, honestly if he just became a guy that threw different suplex's and submited people I would be fine with him, but he try's these weird moves that just don't fit him.
He's the worst guy on the roster. BY FAR. Has no business here.
BurningHammer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:20 pm
If he is, it's not really going matter because it isn't going to change and until there isn't a sign of growth or betterment then he will be in charge. There are lots going on in the company that they are having to create proper structures for and develop and when you are as small as ROH in the back it's always going to take time and in the fast moving world of wrestling it's hard to survive it.
He's been on guard when they've killed their business with NJPW, tried to upstage them at the garden with Matt Taven hullabaloo and they've had 8 years to create structure and develop. They had every chance in the world to blow up and end up on TNT but ego came before pride and that is why ROH had 300 people in Nashville, 450 in Atlanta and 650 in Toronto. Egos of men who have done nothing in the business besides be in the right place at the right time. ROH is backed by billionaires with a several million dollar budget. There's no reason outside of non-compelling booking they are on their back. At the end of the day we all want the company to succeed and prosper. Me, because I have friends who work here, and the 3 letters, ROH hold emotional weight with me. If it weren't for that, and Sinclair wrestling died. I'd lose zero sleep.
I'm am going to try keep it short on this as I just don't think we are really getting anywhere,
But the reasons for Lethal's stature in ROH has long been explained more times than I can remember, I have heard and been told countless times in build-up and during his matches what he has accomplished in the company and honestly just his longevity of consistency in the ring would tell any audience that without ever getting being told the details.
So, hang on it's not the matches or wins but now the mic time, I do think you need to make up your mind because the moments in the ring matter when they lead somewhere it doesn't always need mic time. Also, the less Cobb stays away from the mic the better really, he is way to bland to really be the face of a company in that regard.
Flip has explained money was his motive, commentary did that too, again not lazy booking too me.
I don't believe that at all, if that was the case the biggest title in each company would mean jack shit, a man can enhance the belt, it's prestige but only booking and protection can guarantee it matters. Look at Nigel he even has said he felt he was floundering until the match Brian that match made him and his championship rain go up to being a top five champ. Matches can make any guy and that's what Taven needs he needs someone to shed this gimmick for him, to create a man people can except and go yeah he has got it, bleed for the belt ala a Steve Corino and he will go down as a very good champion.
Why shouldn't he, just because of his story he shouldn't be a heel that doesn't make any sense, this story should have been told a long time ago really but that doesn't mean it won’t be and it doesn't mean it can't get him over in the end.
The thing RUSH destroying everyone in his path can only lead to one thing you need that one amazing guy to be able to take him, else who is going to believable, right now the booking has created a nature where he is real, he can be hurt but he can't be put down. You need that sympathy within in someone else you'll just get a Golberg tazer moment.
On I'm not saying he is isn't, although i think TK, The Bouncers, Cheeseburger give him a run for his moment and I just think he can improve and get to a good level, considering his wrestling and MMA background he should be able to produce something. I think he needs more wrestlers around him to bring the best out of him, get him in with the likes of Gresham, Williams, etc or people like Yehi and Stevens he would improve and I think show his capabilities
I have never said there haven't been huge errors in judgement, I was banging that drum on here about all of this for a long time and it all started when the likes of Kyle, Fish, Cole etc left something happened internally, I have no idea what but there was a loss of something that made ROH great. Unless it was the fact that just thought right, we will put all our eggs in the Bucks, Marty and Lethal as they can take us to the top or keep as a good level and everything else underneath doesn't really matter. Then they left which I didn't think they saw coming for whatever reason, especially when the rumours were there for a while. Their budget compared to most especially when they have to deal with production levels, payment structures isn't enough to deliver something like AEW, I'm sure even AEW right now is loosing money unless a lot of it isn't internal from companies they own. ROH is a lot like Sinclair as a whole it's slow, conservative in it's approach lacking a modern edge but is trying to develop one. Buying the sports networks that they have I will allow ROH to develop because there people in there that have an forward thinking mind, because sports has to be presented in a certain way.
I think there is something beginning to show for ROH, there is a realisation that things had to change that they needed to wake up and do something about all this. It might be too late I don't know but if ROH can just keep plugging away, delivering for the most part, not doing stupid shit with Caz and Enzo or Bully Ray being a complete dick then they should be fine in the end they just need space from it all which they haven't got yet. A string of sell outs or good crowds will certainly get the trollish nature away from them too and hopefully with the next set of shows they will, and things will look much better for them. Well I didn't keep it short but there you go.