Honor For All 8/25/19 Nashville

[monster mafia]

Again...

https://twitter.com/BenTurpen/status/11 ... 55872?s=19

[kovs27]

Again...

https://twitter.com/BenTurpen/status/11 ... 55872?s=19

It's going to be like this for awhile. ROH has a poor reputation right now and there are just too many other options. Only thing they can do is try to change that poor reputation is put on a quality show and be as fan friendly as possible. I'd also so do as much local marketing as possible when tickets go on sale, not just right before the show date.

[BurningHammer]

Are we still on this, jeez, if people talked more about the show and less about attendance wrestling would actually matter. If we are going to talk about it then let’s make it fair and chat about how they are really only a couple of companies drawing well.

Considering the weather they had out there it was great that the crowd still came. Hopefully ROH delivered another great night of wrestling and that’s what need to be talked about.

If ROH can get past this and grow it will be one of their best achievements, the wrestling fan has become pretty fickle in general and if ROH can end up drawing in that environment that’s awesome. Personally I think a lot will change after the Las Vegas show.

[Chrisvegas27]

Is seems things already changing

[dirty]

I'm back from the show. We actually left early. I've been to some bad shows but this is up there with the worst for sure. It was worse than I was expecting and that wasn't much.

Negative 10 points for acting like this was going to be the last wrestling show in the asylum and never coming clean.
Negative 10 points for Ric hyping up Rock & Roll Express like it was a good thing

Bouncers/Coast to Coast/CMLL *
Castle & Hendry vs Eli/Burger * - was actually looking forward to Castle/Eli one on one so the switch sucked
Love/Sakai/Rose/Dawkins 0
Black/Young **
RUSH/Vinny **1/2 - Rush is awesome. Vinny isn't. Disappointing they tied him up in this when this card desperately needed some help. Storyline, storyline - whatever. Supposedly this company stands for great in-ring action. Prove it
Taylor/Owens 1/2*
Briscoes/RRE * - People will act like this was good. It wasn't. A Briscoe went through a table. That was the only good part
Scurll & Brody/Bandido & Haskins *** - It was good but again I was disappointed by the switch. At least a proper title match would've added a little something to the card.

At this point we were done. The main event could've been the greatest match of all time but it was time to bounce.

Overall 2/10

[AnHonorableMention]

Are we still on this, jeez, if people talked more about the show and less about attendance wrestling would actually matter. If we are going to talk about it then let’s make it fair and chat about how they are really only a couple of companies drawing well.

Considering the weather they had out there it was great that the crowd still came. Hopefully ROH delivered another great night of wrestling and that’s what need to be talked about.

If ROH can get past this and grow it will be one of their best achievements, the wrestling fan has become pretty fickle in general and if ROH can end up drawing in that environment that’s awesome. Personally I think a lot will change after the Las Vegas show.

People wouldn't reference poor attendance if the wrestling product was worth discussing. Booking has never been lamer, finishes to matches have never been more useless in getting anyone over. Delirious is so bad, Joey Matthews is another problem child, and they have nobody in charge that holds anyone in booking accountable. The Joe Koff's of the world can't be blamed or credited for good wrestlers having good matches but they certainly deserve the blame for allowing Delirious to continually ruin talent and create absolutely no sizzle to the steak.

[BurningHammer]

Are we still on this, jeez, if people talked more about the show and less about attendance wrestling would actually matter. If we are going to talk about it then let’s make it fair and chat about how they are really only a couple of companies drawing well.

Considering the weather they had out there it was great that the crowd still came. Hopefully ROH delivered another great night of wrestling and that’s what need to be talked about.

If ROH can get past this and grow it will be one of their best achievements, the wrestling fan has become pretty fickle in general and if ROH can end up drawing in that environment that’s awesome. Personally I think a lot will change after the Las Vegas show.

People wouldn't reference poor attendance if the wrestling product was worth discussing. Booking has never been lamer, finishes to matches have never been more useless in getting anyone over. Delirious is so bad, Joey Matthews is another problem child, and they have nobody in charge that holds anyone in booking accountable. The Joe Koff's of the world can't be blamed or credited for good wrestlers having good matches but they certainly deserve the blame for allowing Delirious to continually ruin talent and create absolutely no sizzle to the steak.

What’s so bad about the booking, I’m not thinking it’s heroically good but I see nothing bad about it right now. There’s been more sensible decisions booking wise than I’ve seen for a long time. House shows are actually being used to further story lines, develop chemistry with guys who need it, I know this may not be what everyone wants but random matches just seem pointless to me,(but ROH really can’t win can they, they actually use house shows to help story lines, people criticise it, they don’t put on dream matches people criticise it). ROH are using a very similar formula to New Japan right now and everyone raves about that. It has its bad parts for sure from the women’s division and the use of a couple of talents but overall the directions set and how they have furthered have been good to very good. The whole product feels far more logical compared to other times.

Overall I feel most of this is really down to talent, I think where a lot of companies feel fresh in that regard ROH and younger more energetic and innovative, feels rather old and laboured and maybe too similar.

[Mike Adamle]

I just remember at the beginning of the year I was very optimistic. ROH had a very fresh feel with the new signings of Bandido, RUSH, PCO, Brody King, and a few other good talent. But it has gotten real stale real fast. And mainly because they don't let those guys do anything. Bandido, PCO, Brody King have all just been having matches with no rhyme or reason. It sucks cuz there's some real talent there.

[AnHonorableMention]

Are we still on this, jeez, if people talked more about the show and less about attendance wrestling would actually matter. If we are going to talk about it then let’s make it fair and chat about how they are really only a couple of companies drawing well.

Considering the weather they had out there it was great that the crowd still came. Hopefully ROH delivered another great night of wrestling and that’s what need to be talked about.

If ROH can get past this and grow it will be one of their best achievements, the wrestling fan has become pretty fickle in general and if ROH can end up drawing in that environment that’s awesome. Personally I think a lot will change after the Las Vegas show.

People wouldn't reference poor attendance if the wrestling product was worth discussing. Booking has never been lamer, finishes to matches have never been more useless in getting anyone over. Delirious is so bad, Joey Matthews is another problem child, and they have nobody in charge that holds anyone in booking accountable. The Joe Koff's of the world can't be blamed or credited for good wrestlers having good matches but they certainly deserve the blame for allowing Delirious to continually ruin talent and create absolutely no sizzle to the steak.

What’s so bad about the booking, I’m not thinking it’s heroically good but I see nothing bad about it right now. There’s been more sensible decisions booking wise than I’ve seen for a long time. House shows are actually being used to further story lines, develop chemistry with guys who need it, I know this may not be what everyone wants but random matches just seem pointless to me,(but ROH really can’t win can they, they actually use house shows to help story lines, people criticise it, they don’t put on dream matches people criticise it). ROH are using a very similar formula to New Japan right now and everyone raves about that. It has its bad parts for sure from the women’s division and the use of a couple of talents but overall the directions set and how they have furthered have been good to very good. The whole product feels far more logical compared to other times.

Overall I feel most of this is really down to talent, I think where a lot of companies feel fresh in that regard ROH and younger more energetic and innovative, feels rather old and laboured and maybe too similar.

The booking is bad because it's flat. Why should I care about Shane Taylor being "underpromoted"? Why should I sit there and watch Matt Taven's underlings fight the Bouncers? What exactly is Lifeblood? Why, is the key word. You can have all the talent in the world and I could argue this is a very good top tier talented roster but the guys mean less and less each week. Nobody is made better by winning or by losing. They all come out the same in the end. What exactly is the direction for Marty Scurll? What is the direction for The Briscoes? The matches aren't at NJPW's level so you cannot use the excuse well this is how NJPW does it. What is one central storyline that draws in the viewer? Legit question, I can't think of one and I've seen every show this year, TV included. Cobb's unbeaten streak was ended in a manner so poorly I'd have had Delirious unmask in the center of the ring and had tomatos thrown at him. Rush, now unbeaten has Taven and will likely lose. Bottom line, nobody is given a reason to care about anyone, anymore.

[Lesnar]

Just back and settled in. Things may have appeared a lot differently on television,I will watch tomorrow and see. But live it was a pretty good time. None of the matches really stood out. Rush vs Vinny was the stand out for me with Marty/ Brody vs Lifeblood second. The Briscoes/RNR I thought was decent enough,but no real stand out moments and mostly mediocre matches probably means that I won't be a repeat customer,at least not the $85 seats. I felt that I could have purchased $35 tix and had just as good a view and the same experience.

I had fun but not blown away. Will just stick to my $9.99 honorclub subscription for now.

P.S. The t-shirts were very blah. Nothing I would pay $30 for. Most looked like bootleg shirts that pirates sell outside the venue.

[BurningHammer]

People wouldn't reference poor attendance if the wrestling product was worth discussing. Booking has never been lamer, finishes to matches have never been more useless in getting anyone over. Delirious is so bad, Joey Matthews is another problem child, and they have nobody in charge that holds anyone in booking accountable. The Joe Koff's of the world can't be blamed or credited for good wrestlers having good matches but they certainly deserve the blame for allowing Delirious to continually ruin talent and create absolutely no sizzle to the steak.

What’s so bad about the booking, I’m not thinking it’s heroically good but I see nothing bad about it right now. There’s been more sensible decisions booking wise than I’ve seen for a long time. House shows are actually being used to further story lines, develop chemistry with guys who need it, I know this may not be what everyone wants but random matches just seem pointless to me,(but ROH really can’t win can they, they actually use house shows to help story lines, people criticise it, they don’t put on dream matches people criticise it). ROH are using a very similar formula to New Japan right now and everyone raves about that. It has its bad parts for sure from the women’s division and the use of a couple of talents but overall the directions set and how they have furthered have been good to very good. The whole product feels far more logical compared to other times.

Overall I feel most of this is really down to talent, I think where a lot of companies feel fresh in that regard ROH and younger more energetic and innovative, feels rather old and laboured and maybe too similar.

The booking is bad because it's flat. Why should I care about Shane Taylor being "underpromoted"? Why should I sit there and watch Matt Taven's underlings fight the Bouncers? What exactly is Lifeblood? Why, is the key word. You can have all the talent in the world and I could argue this is a very good top tier talented roster but the guys mean less and less each week. Nobody is made better by winning or by losing. They all come out the same in the end. What exactly is the direction for Marty Scurll? What is the direction for The Briscoes? The matches aren't at NJPW's level so you cannot use the excuse well this is how NJPW does it. What is one central storyline that draws in the viewer? Legit question, I can't think of one and I've seen every show this year, TV included. Cobb's unbeaten streak was ended in a manner so poorly I'd have had Delirious unmask in the center of the ring and had tomatos thrown at him. Rush, now unbeaten has Taven and will likely lose. Bottom line, nobody is given a reason to care about anyone, anymore.

I mainly say talent is an issue because there isn’t a dearth of great matches on cards, say this one for example, if you had two or three other matches mixed in with story line driven ones say a couple to really pop the crowd at the start then it has everything a card needs. This is where ROH needs to be better delivering matches that pop the crowd as that’s just where wrestling is at the moment.

Cobb’s loss was certainly handled poorly but that’s more management of a show, than actual booking, I get your point tough and that’s cool. ROH has immediately rebounded him well as soon as he’s come back after a mediocre G1, which I thought was handled horribly until the last night really, and that’s good booking. It maybe he’s the one that takes the title after all.

LifeBlood haven’t exactly had an easy start and they were hampered by a poor set up, fractured members and a stupidly long feud with Bully Ray, totally fine with calling all that shit out and it’s been deserved. They should still be putting promos, vignettes solidifying, delving into the relationship and that’s poor still that they haven’t.

With all that said their main aim is too restore the ‘LifeBlood’ of ROH, which was all about honor and having great matches or matches based around wrestling as being the main draw to their matches and after having so many months of that not being the case in ROH around the card, they do it but then get criticised by fans for just having good to great wrestling matches, go figure. While doing all of that they generating a good feud with VE, well to me they have. If you also notice their losses and wins I believe are close to even with each other so there is a competitiveness there that should be shining through and again that’s good solid booking, you’ve then got the underlying element of Flip turning on VE that again should give them something more to fight for.

Also with Haskins has now pinned and submitted three of the top guys in ROH that if your looking at it should create a dynamic for him to seen as legitimate contender going forward. Again good booking.

The Briscoes have been having hard matches one after the other how long can they take the risks and hard yards without losing gold again, that’s why you should care the way they are putting their bodies on the life for the championships, will the Life Blood match be too far.

If you like Taylor of course you are going to care he has been held down if you don’t why would you, he’s explained the reasons why he has this gripe and it’s mainly good because it’s true. He’s delivered in the ring for a while and fans just say he’s blah and he feels a lot of that is at ROH’s feet and he isn’t wrong really. The same could be said for a lot of guys there and they are showing it in their promos, from C2C to Jon Gresham they are inviting reality into their stories and that’s important as you should want to succeed and get to the top if they are being ‘held down’

For Marty, He’s the leader of VE and current holder of the three man belts, who is likely leaving soon, what direction do you really need him in apart from being a draw because he’s there. If he’s staying I would expect things to change for him, I.e. getting in the main title picture but if he isn’t he’s fine where he is. Also the way they dealt with PCO has been great for a guy his age he’s been shown in a great light, Brody needs a bit of work but I think he will get there, Flip with VE has added a new dimension to him and it will be interesting to see where he goes with, it’s just been a shame with the injury.

RUSH has been built up well and it possibly now it looks like he will get TV gold before the World Title after he pinned Taylor at the TV tapings. It would keep him going and will be a fine a guy to pin Taylor who shouldn’t just have anyone beat him after his own unbeaten run. It would also give RUSH the chance to put another guy over after losing the TV title before going for the main one. He may even get tag gold with Lee soon to.

Castle has held his own as a heel and I thought the RUSH feud developed nicely even after the shit that happened in Chicago and he’s already got someone new with Hendry which is a nice move for both.

Using Silas as a teacher for Josh Woods is a good move and should have been done ages when it showed how green he was, is it amazing no, it is sensible yes.

Overall I’m not saying ROH is wonderful and it doesn’t have issues but there is detail and substance with the work and it shouldn’t be ignored. They are finishing off a lot of story line work that should have been dealt with last year unfortunately ROH was too slow like a lot of times in pulling the trigger, escalating things, flip flopping hear and there for a lot of the roster. I think what Delirious needs to understand is many people aren’t seeing his long term booking and slight moves, it seems like he needs to make them more immediate and stronger than he has done so far.

[Lynx]

People wouldn't reference poor attendance if the wrestling product was worth discussing.

Most of the people who talk about ticket sales either don't watch RoH anymore or have never watched it. Having good matches wouldn't change their perception.

[alexsmellzzz]

People wouldn't reference poor attendance if the wrestling product was worth discussing.

Most of the people who talk about ticket sales either don't watch RoH anymore or have never watched it. Having good matches wouldn't change their perception.

Nah, you’re wrong about this.

I watch every show. There’s a link between the bad attendance numbers and the bad wresting quality. I wish ROH was good. I stick around because I’m just an idiot, I guess. Just waiting for ROH to improve. And they also have given me a lot of great shows to see live. The upcoming Vegas one I can already tell will be a disappointment, just based on the lack of announcements.

Some of you guys defending this poor product - why? I don’t get it. You can be honest with yourself and admit the shows aren’t great right now and haven’t been for a while.

[dirty]

Just back and settled in. Things may have appeared a lot differently on television,I will watch tomorrow and see. But live it was a pretty good time. None of the matches really stood out. Rush vs Vinny was the stand out for me with Marty/ Brody vs Lifeblood second. The Briscoes/RNR I thought was decent enough,but no real stand out moments and mostly mediocre matches probably means that I won't be a repeat customer,at least not the $85 seats. I felt that I could have purchased $35 tix and had just as good a view and the same experience.

I had fun but not blown away. Will just stick to my $9.99 honorclub subscription for now.

P.S. The t-shirts were very blah. Nothing I would pay $30 for. Most looked like bootleg shirts that pirates sell outside the venue.

I don't have issue paying decent money for great seats if I love the show. Even though I hated the show and I'm done supporting the company with my $ I still wish you would've enjoyed it more.

For the quality of the product right now I do consider price an issue. Every GCW or Evolve show I've been to were way better than the last few ROH shows I've been to (last night being the worst of the group). GCW front row are usually in the $35 range. Evolve usually in the $40 range. If you paid over twice that amount yeah, that's a major problem.

Anyway - for anyone thinking I'm being too negative I won't appologize for it. This is my honest take on the matter. If there are people spening big money on shows and having a blast good for them.

[alexsmellzzz]

Just back and settled in. Things may have appeared a lot differently on television,I will watch tomorrow and see. But live it was a pretty good time. None of the matches really stood out. Rush vs Vinny was the stand out for me with Marty/ Brody vs Lifeblood second. The Briscoes/RNR I thought was decent enough,but no real stand out moments and mostly mediocre matches probably means that I won't be a repeat customer,at least not the $85 seats. I felt that I could have purchased $35 tix and had just as good a view and the same experience.

I had fun but not blown away. Will just stick to my $9.99 honorclub subscription for now.

P.S. The t-shirts were very blah. Nothing I would pay $30 for. Most looked like bootleg shirts that pirates sell outside the venue.

Yeah, I always go for front row in Vegas. It's pretty much always $100 and up until now, it's always been worth it. I've seen some incredible PPVs here. Got to see Okada, Suzuki, Tanahashi, Ishii, etc. And all in a pretty intimate venue, which was sweet. But Taven vs Rush doesn't quite match those past cards. We'll see what else gets announced but I'm VERY skeptical at ROH's ability to pull something off, given their lack of roster depth right now.

The t-shirts you are 100% correct about. ROH had some really good merch when they first started. And then continued to have some decent stuff over the years. Last 4-5 years, the merch has been horrendous. There hasn't been a single shirt that I'd EVER consider wearing outside lol. The last one I liked, and this is funny because I hate Matt Taven... but the last one I liked was the red/purple Kingdom shirts with the gold symbol in the middle. For some reason, those were cool shirts. That was really the last era of decent ROH shirts. Another problem is they charge so much for them at shows, it's kind of insane. I don't know who designs ROH shirts right now, but they do a really bad job. ROH could literally get better designs from fans for free. But I doubt they even care that much. Just keep pumping out the same crap they've been pumping out for a while

[kovs27]

I can understand people who attended not being happy. This show felt like too much filler. Even watching at home I caught myself not paying attention several times. Did this show move storylines along, yes. Did it do anything to make people want to come back next time, no. The top matches on the card have to deliver and I would say other than Lifeblood vs VE nothing was worth watching again. ROH isn't in a position to have a show like that right now.

[BurningHammer]

I can understand people who attended not being happy. This show felt like too much filler. Even watching at home I caught myself not paying attention several times. Did this show move storylines along, yes. Did it do anything to make people want to come back next time, no. The top matches on the card have to deliver and I would say other than Lifeblood vs VE nothing was worth watching again. ROH isn't in a position to have a show like that right now.

Yeah if you are going to use a house show to fill story lines, take up time for certain people the undercard must been of a much higher quality and that’s why the talent roster is an issue. The more quality matches you bring on a card the story line driven matches become more acceptable and the card balances out.

[Chrisvegas27]

So is far this weeks shows product wise not attendance does it make you optimistic where its heading or more worried

[indyfan]

Worried. Everyone on any other site laughs at ROH. Its a shell of its former self. And they have been since 2016.

Its one thing to keep fans coming back. They also need to keep talent.

Why even have Cobb be undefeated to lose to Taven. That was such a terrible decision

[BurningHammer]

So is far this weeks shows product wise not attendance does it make you optimistic where its heading or more worried

Fine really, I'm waiting until after Vegas to really see how I feel as I think that will be the turning point to the build for real change or the change itself. ROH still needs a massive talent overhall and switch of a few things but that's just the way it is. I am excited with regards to three day tour, the tournament announcement this week, the development of Future of Honor in the coming months and a few other things, ROH is close is growing again just needs to make the right decissions for a few months.