ROH/NJPW G1 Supercard Official Thread

[ActionJeffson]

Cass couldn't be carried to an OKAY match by Bryan fucking Danielson and we all know Enzo is garbage in the ring and out. How can they possibly help anything?

[Chrisvegas27]

Fightful is reporting cass and enzo are officially with roh

[monster mafia]

they were entertaining in nxt but thats it...a lot of stuff happen after that.

im really sad about roh right now.

[Chrisvegas27]

Its only going to get worse if you didn't like tonight given which people are booking the show now

[supersonic]

No interest in seeing ROH for Tampa. Happily would go to a proper NJPW show, or one that’s cross-promoted with RPW and/or AEW. I do not care about the politics.

Late slip hot take, but I know now after last year and this year, if I want a piggybacking show like ROH 2006-08, I go to NXT, not ROH. That simple.

[ICHIFUJI]

10second Woman Hardcore Ladder
All those were NJPW don't do.
So I enjoyed as a part of show.

[Montana]

Tough decision ROH made with Enzo and Cass but a few years ago, they were one of the hottest tag teams. Enzo is great on the mic. Cass could be alright in the ring If he continues to improve. I’m not mad about the decision, but I think they need to clean up their personal issues, and focus on getting better in the ring. 2 years ago, I would have took Enzo and Cass over Cody Rhodes in a second. Crazy stuff.

It’s amazing too, with everything going on, Matt Taven is the ROH champ too. The guys been busting his butt in ROH for a long time so we’ll deserved. (Again, better than Cody)

Plus, with Eveeyone is mad at Roh for signing certain guys. Let’s not forget 9 key wrestlers just left the company in Dec/Jan between bullet club, scu, best friends, but guys like Sabin, Madison, and Emma. They need to get someone in to fill these spots. They got Cobb, rush, pco, Brody Lee, Haskins, freakin Bandido, juice , etc on short notice. Like it or not, ROH still has a pretty solid roster.

[Chrisvegas27]

Bully said Roh needs to go after talent roh wouldn't normally go after and he also said they need to be unpredictable so given bully and Joey are booking the show we are going to see a lot more of shows like last night

[kovs27]

It's amazing the reaction to this show from those who weren't there and those who were. All the people around me (a very friendly section) were trying to figure out if the Enzo and Cass thing was a work or shoot then moved on to the next match. People who weren't there are ready to close the doors and call for the company to fold. I just don't understand how we watched the same thing.

And for the record I want no part of Enzo and Cass. If the plan is to set up a big match with the Briscoes who absolutely destroy them I can live with that.

[monster mafia]

ROH still has a pretty solid roster...im agree, but it just feels like everything wrong with the show last night was the roh portion of the show... im sad about that

Women of Honor is unquestionably the worst women's division in major league pro wrestling.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH/NJPW G1 Supercard (4/6/2019)- New York, NY

HONOR RUMBLE- 7/10
We finally got a payoff to Rhett Titus not knowing where Will Ferrara was. Said payoff was Ferrara coming out as an entrant in the Honor Rumble, and he and Rhett just started working together again. That was definitely worth Rhett Titus showing up and detracting from the commentary at least once a show for several months, wasn’t it?
Cheeseburger got the “my feet didn’t technically touch the floor so I’m not eliminated” spot. Tracy Williams and Minoru Suzuki facing off was kind of cool. Liger got a standing ovation.
This match was, in essence, a very good Royal Rumble where the fans really didn’t care about the idea of any of the wrestlers in it getting a title shot. I know that sounds like a backhanded compliment, but I really don’t mean it as one. Nothing had been done to build up anyone in here other than Kenny King, and I don’t think anyone Suzuki to win because New Japan probably wouldn’t want him to do a job for the ROH World Champion, and I don’t think anyone thought they would even put the title on Suzuki or Ishii or Goto so the idea of them winning wasn’t exciting. But the booking of this match clearly understood that, and so it was laid out in such a way as to just let the fans cheer for the legends for as long as they could, and then get some real heat on Kenny King for pulling the rug out from under everyone at the end. I did not think that the legends getting any sort of revenge on Kenny after the match was a good idea, though.

TITLE VS. TITLE MATCH: Jeff Cobb(ROH TV Champion) vs. Will Ospreay(NEVER Openweight Champion)- 8.25/10
This match was almost entirely big moves, but they did a fantastic job of making every move matter and creating a match that both built up and flowed very well. The result was one hell of an opener, and a cutter spot that Randy Orton is going to have an extremely tough time topping.

RUSH vs. DALTON CASTLE- no rating, good segment
Dalton got the big “WrestleMania entrance” here with lots of Boys. One of the Boys accidentally dropped his fan in the ring which distracted Dalton, and Rush charged in with his big dropkick, hit his finisher and got the pin. Dalton turned on the Boys after the match even though it was really his fault for allowing himself to get distracted, so Dalton is a heel now. This was a well-executed segment that pays off a storyline that has been building for months, sets up a rematch with a built-in reason for why the outcome might be different, and was a clever way to save time on a show with so many matches on it.

JUICE ROBINSON HAS BEEN LAID OUT BACKSTAGE- An unknown assailant was seen running out of the locker room. The assailant had dark hair, and we can rule out that he is overweight, and we can rule-out that he is an African-American based on his skin tone, but that’s all we know. Notably, Bully Ray had vowed that Juice would not make it to their match, so he is almost certainly behind this, but he clearly has an accomplice.

ROH WOMEN OF HONOR WORLD TITLE MATCH: Mayu Iwatani(c) (w/Sumie Sakai) vs. Kelly Klein (w/Camp Klein)- 7.25/10
Kelly sent Camp Klein to the back, confusing the hell out of me because now she seems like she’s a babyface again. They also had a match full of big moves, but they weren’t as big and spectacular as Cobb vs. Ospreay. They did have the advantage of being able to play off of their previous match, though, and they did that well. Kelly Klein won the belt back, which just makes me wonder why she ever lost it in the first place if all Mayu was going to do is drop the belt to Kelly. And considering the post-match segment, well… let’s just get into that right now, shall we?

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- very mixed feelings
Angelina Love and Velvet Sky came down to the ring to face off with Kelly. Mandy Leon left the commentary table to back Kelly up… but then blindsided her. The heels beat Kelly up. First Jenny Rose and then Stella Grey tried to make the save but Rose got a Botox Injection from Angelina and Stella go the hairspray in the face from Velvet followed by a DDT from Mandy. They then drew what appears to be the international symbol for anarchy on Kelly’s forehead in lipstick while Mandy filmed it with her phone and they all posed and took pictures together.
The execution here was pretty great and this definitely qualifies as a decent surprise, but the Beautiful People are absolutely not what this division needs right now. They’re good personalities, yes, but Velvet is terrible in the ring and Angelina hasn’t had a good match in a decade. This is ROH. This division needs workers. Maybe I could get behind this if they had paired them up with a good worker, but instead they’ve been put with freakin’ Mandy Leon. If you’re looking for a personality and some star-power (which seems to be what this move is about) then I think just bringing Velvet Sky in as a manager would have been a much better idea.
Mandy’s involvement in particular has me a little annoyed. Obviously she can fit in with their aesthetic, but as I said above she isn’t the necessary level of worker, and really hasn’t shown any signs of improving. In fact, she has barely wrestled over the past sixteen months. Her most recent match was on the Jericho Cruise, and the match before that was back in the title tournament last March. She hasn’t wrestled yet in 2019 and only wrestled four times in 2018. While that’s not good in and of itself, thing that really bugs me is how random this was. It just seems so clear to me that instead of having Kelly drop the belt to Mayu for two months just so she could win it back here, it would have been better to use the “Kelly will give anyone a title shot” angle to set this one up by having Mandy lose a title shot to Kelly, and maybe even get a second one and do better but still lose, so that her heel turn is one of desperation because she can’t beat Kelly on her own, rather than just a thing she randomly decided to do.

While I’m on the subject of the women’s division, the term “Women of Honor” is fine as a collective noun when you’re talking about multiple women in the division and with a definite article in front of it, but the announcers really need to stop using it as a proper noun synonym for the “the ROH women’s division.” When Ian Riccaboni expressed his disgust with the heels’ actions by saying “this is not what we need in Women of Honor!” it had that same painful stiffness as Michael Cole telling us a brawl has “spilled out into the WWE Universe.”

A GOOFBALL COMES OUT TO THE RING AND BULLY RAY BEATS HIM UP- Didn’t we see this exact same thing with this exact same guy in Baltimore?

BULLY RAY PROMO- He cut the expected promo about Juice Robinson not being able to wrestle so his open challenge is still open. It was answered by…

NEW YORK CITY STREET FIGHT: Bully Ray vs. Flip Gordon- no rating
So I guess this means Flip reinjuring his knee was just an injury scare. That’s good news.
They do a spot or two, then Slias Yong and Shane Taylor run down to the ring to help Bully. They got Flip set up on a table with Silas and Taylor holding him in position and Bully Ray is about to hit him in the gut with a Kendo stick, when LifeBlood’s music hits and Mark Haskins and Juice Robinson (who looks perfectly f*cking fine, so you have to wonder why he didn’t come out here for his scheduled match against Bully Ray) come out… and they take their f*cking time strutting and cutting a promo on showing off their big collection of weapons. I can only imagine that while this is happening, Bully is just whacking away at poor Flip with the Kendo stick and causing him many internal injuries.
Nope. Apparently they let Flip go for some reason. Juice suggests that we make this a six-man tag so the match became a…

SIX-MAN NEW YORK CITY STREET FIGHT: Bully Ray, Silas Young, & Shane Taylor vs. Flip Gordon & LifeBlood (Mark Haskins & Juice Robinson)- 4/10
There was some good stuff in here, but that entire section with the Kendo sticks was horrible. It was painfully over-choreographed and came across like an attempt to earn an extra snowflake from Uncle Dave rather than as something that would happen naturally in the course of a match. I’ve been saying for years that the spot Shibata did where he just sat down and lets the other guy kick him in the back to prove how tough he was was f*cking stupid because there was no reason the other guy wouldn’t just kick him in the back of the skull instead of kick him in the back like he wanted. Replace “kick” with “swing a weapon at” and turn “the other guy” from your random opponent of the night into “three guys who hate you” and Flip Gordon is a moron giving his back to these guys and asking them to hit him with Kendo sticks, and they’re even bigger morons for not hitting him in the head. Flip eventually pinned Bully Ray, so what was the point of Bully Ray sticking around another four months to continue this feud with Flip Gordon after they already had their I Quit Match at the biggest show of the year where they incorporated all of the previous elements of the feud? If you want to keep Bully Ray on as a promo coach or agent for tag team matches then that’s fine, but there is no reason for him to be eating up time on wrestling shows and dragging matches down with his presence.
Also, the commentary for this match was terrible. It was too silly and over the top. Ian’s forced musical references and forced set-ups for his usual big calls detracted from the atmosphere… and somehow he was the best announcer in this match. Caprice Coleman and Kevin Kelly each ruined spots with their goofy bullsh*t, and if Colt Cabana can’t get through a single sentence without sounding like he’s about to break out laughing, he shouldn’t be doing commentary at all, never mind for a grudge match with weapons.

IWGP JR. HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH: Taiji Ishimori(c) vs. Bandido vs. Dragon Lee- 7/10
This was nine minutes of spots. They were spectacular spots, yes, but they were just a bunch of spots. Also, the following happened: Bandido grabs Ishimori… and we cut to the crowd. We cut back to the ring and Bandido has Ishimori up for a move… and we cut back to the same section of the crowd… and of course when come back, we’ve missed the spot. If I don’t read that ROH’s director was fired in this week’s Observer, I’m going to be very unhappy, because there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXUCSE FOR DOING SOMETHING SO F*CKING STUPID.
Dragon Lee won the title, and Kevin Kelly told us that this means that he will “go into Best of the Super Juniors in the month of May with a big target on his back.” If Kevin can state for certain that he will be the champion going into BOSJ and BOSJ usually last into June, does that mean that the title won’t be defended again for two months? That sucks. Can we at least get one at Dontaku?

FOUR CORNER SURVIVAL MATCH FOR BOTH THE ROH WORLD TAG TEAM TITLES AND THE IWGP TAG TEAM TITLES: Villain Enterprises (Brody King & PCO)(ROH World Tag Team Champions) vs. Guerrillas of Destiny(IWGP Tag Team Champions) (w/Jado) vs. the Briscoes vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (EVIL & Sanada)- 7.5/10
Villain Enterprises got a big entrance here that was completely goofy, and Caprice came off completely goofy with the way he sold it, too. This was another big, spotty, relatively short match. PCO almost died. Again. This guy is really scaring me with these bumps he takes. The match was exciting, but at the same time felt like it could have been a lot more. Why are we only giving these matches ten minutes? Maybe cut some f*cking jobbers out of the Honor Rumble if you want to keep things shorter. Or don’t do a random segment with Bully Ray and some loser who we have no idea why he is even here in the first place. Or don’t waste time on every show for several months building up to a Bully Ray match that no one wants to see.
Or don’t book so many f*cking matches on your show. This match in particular felt like something that just plain shouldn’t have happened. Having two title vs. title matches on the same show makes each one feel less special, losing their titles after less than a month and doing nothing of any note with them feels like a big momentum killer for Villain Enterprises, and why the f*ck you ROH want the Guerrillas of Destiny, the beige of New Japan’s tag team division, to have their titles?

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- bad
Yano comes out and steals the IWGP Tag Team Titles because he’s a piece of sh*t. Do you see what you people have done? You keep justifying his cheating, so now he thinks he can break other rules, too. In five years the police are going to search his house and find piles of human skulls in the closet, and all of you are going to have that blood on your hands for encouraging him to go down this criminal path.
But yeah, Yano stole the IWGP Tag Team Titles, so now our new ROH World Tag Team Champions are immediately put in an angle where them being the ROH World Tag Team Champions is completely incidental. Facepalm.

RPW UNDISPUTED BRITISH HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH: Zack Sabre Jr.(c) (w/TAKA Michinoku) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi- 7.75/10
Zack worked the arm, Tanahashi worked the leg. This felt like the reader’s digest version of what these two would do in a New Japan main event. I haven’t seen the RevPro show yet, but I think everyone would have been better off if instead of doing this match on this show they had done the match for RevPro’s top title on RevPro’s show, saving time on this one and giving that one a match that actually matters.

IWGP INTERCONTINENTAL TITLE MATCH: Tetsuya Naito(c) vs. Kota Ibushi- 8.5/10
I don’t think I’ve ever had a match before that I have somehow managed to simultaneously be very excited and also not give a sh*t about, but this one has managed it. They started off doing some good stuff so I cared, but once they went to the outside for the usual “throw the guy into the barricade a bunch of times while the referee doesn’t count you out, then toss him into the crowd for the Count-Out Tease That No One Ever Buys™.
That silliness out of the way, the match kept building and building and became quite awesome. The series of false finishes at the end were fantastic. Kota won. It’s funny how he went so many years without winning won one of the titles NJPW actually cares about, but now that he has signed an NJPW contract, he finally wins one.

LADDER MATCH FOR THE ROH WORLD TITLE: Jay Lethal(c) vs. Matt Taven vs. Marty Scurll- 8.25/10
An awesome Ladder Match with all of the usual awesome Ladder Match stuff. Scurll’s selling of his knee throughout definitely added a differentiating touch that helped this match. I just REALLY don’t like the result. Also, a fan got hit by an errant ladder, prompting a “THAT’S A LAWSUIT!” chant.

IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH: Jay White(c) (w/Gedo) vs. Kazuchika Okada- 8.5/10
The story of the match was Okada having to deal with Gedo’s interference, but it hit the point that Gedo not getting ejected at the end was just plain silly. They did a lot of good building up and teasing of their big stuff, but I thought that finishing sequence went a bit overboard on White reversing things after being hit with a Rainmaker (or similarly big lariat). Throw in the multiple instances of them fighting on the outside forever without being counted out and you have a main event that, while awesome, felt like it could have been more, considering that it got thirty minutes. I also really don’t like White dropping the title back to Okada here. It feels like cuts White off way too soon, and less than a year out from Omega’s big title win, it feels like we’re back at the status quo. I think a much better story would have been to make White the unbeatable monster and finally have Okada dethrone him at Wrestle Kingdom, to build up a real journey for Okada without Gedo at his side.

This was a pretty awesome show from ROH and New Japan, but at the same time I can’t help but feel that it could have been more. This has real Tokyo Dome feel to it, but so many of the big undercard matches felt like they didn’t quite get enough time. Give everything (other than Rush vs. Dalton, obviously) four to five more minutes, and I think this show would have gone down as an all-time classic. Instead we got a show that, while awesome, also felt a little disappointing. I’d also be remiss if I didn’t say that most of the booking decisions from both companies did not leave me feeling very optimistic for the future. But either way, this was a landmark show in wrestling history, and was quite excellent in the ring. I haven’t put too much thought into comparing it to anything else yet, but it’s probably a Show of the Year Candidate, so you should absolutely go watch it.

[Montana]

It's interesting to see all the mixed reactions to the show. Seems like a lot of people hating on the ROH side of the show, but 3 out of the 4 final matches were NJPW and they got the most time. The matches with mixed talent, all seemed to be successful / positively received. The Rush/Dalton match gave up time for the other matches. The womens match was on par with all WOH matches. Then there was an ROH street fight 3 on 3, which i enjoyed, i see some didn't. Just seems odd to rate the show down that hard for 2 short-ish matches on the under card that brought some diversity to the show. Seems like the Enzo/Cass thing really swayed ppls thoughts on the show. I thought the diversity added some freshness to the show. I agree with Big Red Machine...awesome show.. if they would have given a few matches a few more minutes, could have been a all time classic. (specifically the 3 way JR iwgp match)

I'd rather have that, than than takever, where ever match they try and go out and have a MOTYC, with a million kick outs. Every matches feels the same... for every takeover PPV. Yes, takeover had great matches, but personally i don't care for it as much (other than Walter vs. Dunn) Could be bc it's a majority of former ROH and Indy stars, doing what they've been doing the past 5-10 years of their career, so it's really nothing new.

[famicommander]

My thoughts:
-Enzo and Cass are garbage wrestlers and Enzo is a garbage human and ROH is stupid to associate with either of them in any capacity, period

-Upset at the CMLL representation here. Rush's match went 10 seconds and Dragon Lee didn't bring either of his 2 CMLL belts to the ring with him. He should have walked out of there with all three of his belts.

-No more rappers or "celebrities", ever, okay?

-Taven was over as hell, the match was great, and it was the right move to put him over. Taven completes the ROH Grand Slam joining Christopher Daniels as the only other man to accomplish the feat. Also completes the Triple Crown, joining Daniels, Roderick Strong, Eddie Edwards, and Jay Lethal.

-Red Shoes was as over as anyone on the card except Okada

-Glad Shane Taylor, Mark Haskins, Flip Gordon, and Silas Young found their way onto the main card

-Strange to see the Beautiful People considering Madison Rayne just left

-Tama Tonga is now the third man behind Taven and Rocky Romero to win a belt in all three of ROH, CMLL, and NJPW

-Every match on the card was good except the angle between Castle and Rush

-I wonder why RevPro doesn't change the British title to the RevPro World Championship. It has been defended in the US and Japan.

-Holy crap at Haku and Great Muta in the Rumble

-Cobb now a double champion. He deserves it.

[Chrisvegas27]

I guess Roh covered all the production for the show which tells me sinclair giving Roh more money

[Wilson]

I attended the show, and it's probably the best one I've been to, considering how high the highs were. Most of the ROH stuff was fine to good, but the high points definitely involved the New Japan matches, which was my anchoring point in the show to begin with.

Yesterday should have been for ROH a night that they would want to present the best version of themselves. Three of their four exclusively ROH matches had piddling angles attached to them, all of them back to back. I really think a show like that is when you play it as straight-faced as possible to show why it's worth getting invested rather than sprinting through storyline twists. I'm really unhappy about the Enzo and Cass angle and their general inclusion. Bully has to leave the fucking company, he's so selfish and his perspective on wrestling is atrocious. The ladder match was always going to have a hard time, but they really managed to pull in the crowd by the second half thanks to some amazing work by the three wrestlers. I don't think Taven is an amazing pick as a champion, but I like him the best of the three options. There's at least plenty of fresh ground to plot out from here with stories centering on him.

[BurningHammer]

I think after last night I’m really going to have to see where ROH goes before I comfortably watch without much cosideration again.

Being there live was a serial experience in many ways from how many people had no idea about ROH talent, to supposedly New Japan “fans” actually not knowing who Taiji Ishimori was, then having to deal with the nonsense of the angles that were set on a show that never should have had them in the first place. ROH also faced the problem of giving everyone their moment, like having a three way ladder match, the three man street fight it needed a less is more approach isntead we got the opposite, it could have delivered an environment that felt a kin to New Japan instead it tried to stand out and failed.

I hope that much of what happened at the show doesn’t have a lasting impact through it’s product. If Enzo and Cass are there for a couple of shots then fine, do the deal get it over and done with, just have them get the shit beaten out of them by the Bricoes and everyon goes away happy. The beautiful people stuff it is what it is, I hope it will play out for a short time. I would also hope now the Bully Ray stuff Is done with and the likes of Flip and Life Blood etc can move on and just deliver great matches constantly with the likes of Taylor and Silas without much worry about silly shit anymore.

One thing I will always enjoy about ROH is it’s gives people a chance and making Taven champ is one of those moves. Compare it to New Japan and at the moment it’s struggling to create those new stars. Despite what negative bits came out of the show, there is still the chance of some real growth, I can see Taven really being made by a feud with RUSH and that will take the company forward again, when I imagine RUSH wins the title, this may also be the time where the ROH title will becomes a heavyweight orientated title. Castle as a heel is new and fresh, I loved what they did with him and RUSH, it worked perfectly for the set up at the end, I hope it works for Castle, so he can have longer career with his injuries. Having GOD as tag champs adds something new to the division, I liked what I saw with them and Villian Enterprises. The Honor Rumble was one of the best Royal Rumble style matches you are going to see, the ending away shit and great at the same time for all involved.

In summery I may just have to be a New Japan fan solely for a while but I do hope I can still enjoy ROH without doing that.

(Side note Julius Smokes was sitting behind me, good dude and what you see on screen is what you get in real life, and he didn’t hold back about ROH that’s for sure.)

[Captain_44]

Its only going to get worse if you didn't like tonight given which people are booking the show now

Who's booking now?

[Chrisvegas27]

Fightful said bully and Joey Mercury are pretty much booking the shows and delirious is kinda stepping aside

[Big Red Machine]

(Side note Julius Smokes was sitting behind me, good dude and what you on screen is what you get a real life, and he didn’t hold back about ROH that’s for sure.)

Care to share any of his comments or insights?

If not, along a similar vein I will say that I stood next to Cheeseburger at the wXw show, and he, too, is a very nice person.

[Big Red Machine]

Fightful said bully and Joey Mercury are pretty much booking the shows and delirious is kinda stepping aside

Oh my G-d they're going to make me want Delirious back, aren't they?