Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

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Wilson
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Wilson »

BRM, you gave a lot of good faith arguments, and I'll try to match your tone as I respond to your post.
I find talk about SBG to be... less than completely relevant. The rovert1's statements about Sinclair both here and in the other thread are evidence that if such a thing happened, Sinclair would be inclined to not punish the wrongdoers without public pressure. That should not be mistaken for evidence- or even a strong argument- that such a thing actually did happen.
When you see a pattern in Sinclair's gender imbalance, stymieing women anchors and journalists (as well as progressives), you get a sense of their overall priorities. If mid-management staff doesn't feel free to address these issues at Sinclair proper, you can expect that wouldn't be proper protocols set up for women to thrive in ROH.
I agree that it is not good for trainers to be dating their trainees or for the head booker to be dating anyone in the company, but at the same time, (to quote, of all people, Triple H) "you cant help who you fall in love with." It would be ideal for Mandy to be working for someone else, but... the fact is that she really isn't a very good wrestler and I can't see any company that is able to pay a living wage wanting to take her. Sometimes people fall in love and everyone has to just accept it even tho0ugh it creates a bad situation in the work environment. Not every situation like this is either "powerful man taking advantage of vulnerable woman" or "gold-digging whore/ambitious career slut sleeping her way to money/power/success." Sometimes people just fall in love.
I used to think this was true, and that there were exceptions that could be accepted. That was until MeToo this past fall when we saw how drastically flawed these male mentor/female student dynamics could be. In Hollywood, the art world, sports, media, academia--these really prestigious institutions being compromised by irresponsible actors or outright abusers. The contrast in power is so stark--too stark. People in power shouldn't engage in these relationships. "You love who you love," to me sounds like a lot of masculine BS to cover up their unethical tracks. (Triple H's relation to Stephanie is also much different than Delirious and Mandy. I don't think you were alluding to that, but I just want to be clear.)
Also, re the pushes of Kelly and Mandy, there is a third possibility that people seem to not be considering, which was a reason people used to give for the booker of a territory pushing himself/his friends: the assumption is that as long as they are dating someone in the office, they won't leave the company out of loyalty. It's still not a great situation in that it's not the ideal meritocracy, but it's not as malicious as the "I'm pushing my girlfriend because she's my girlfriend" aspect.
Mandy and Klein both definitely have their strengths. Concerns about their push could also be concerns about how other womens wrestlers carve their own space. Like how a Jenny Rose or Jessi Brookes read the landscape and how they try to move in a space with uncomfortable boundaries.
As for the comment about ROH not having any female executives... that's certainly true, but how many executives does ROH actually have? Is it not just Koff and Delirious? I think that's an unfair accusation to level with such a small sample size.
Wiki's got some answers! Cary Silkin is considered an active producer, Greg Gilleland is the GM (and has been rumored to being the next Koff), Jerry Lynn is a producer as is Joey Mercury, Jeff Jones is head of social, and there's Joe Koff. Delirious and BJ Whitmer are uncredited in ROH personnel page, but they have both been confirmed to be in producer roles. Delirious also does creative, and I think has a hand in talent relations as well as the Dojo. The Dojo has several trainers, all men. There are legacy male hires that also influence the promotion like Todd Sinclair and Paul Turner. The regular announce team has always been men. Their longest-tenured women are probably Dojo graduates (Mandy, Jenny, or Klein). It's a boys club, which are notorious for ultimately valuing men over women.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by LJimmy »

rovert1 wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:34 am
The Dragon Saga wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:24 am You have made no reference to any of this yet you're apparently "in the know".

So if Mandy and Klein's pushes come off the back of who their dating, is Sumie Sakai dating Greg Gilliland or Gary Juster?
Tremendous debunking. I am talking about the totality of WOH.

The WOH title was Sumie's gold watch so to speak. She was telling people she was retiring last year but held on.

Frankly, I am in the know, to be honest. You have check out who follows me as a testament of that. Current and past ROH wrestlers and office staff. I've talked about or hinted at Taeler's situation since it happened. ROH was going through a number of bullying, sexism and racial situation concurrently and I documented that as much as I can. A lot of wrestlers left.
It's so amazing that all these stories have never been mentioned by certain news sites and newsletters. Nothing about their creative, use of their wrestlers and eyes for recruiting talent either. Oh, and btw, still nothing mentioned at all about this Lethal story by these people.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by The Dragon Saga »

rovert1 wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:34 am
The Dragon Saga wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:24 am You have made no reference to any of this yet you're apparently "in the know".

So if Mandy and Klein's pushes come off the back of who their dating, is Sumie Sakai dating Greg Gilliland or Gary Juster?
I talked about or hinted at Taeler's situation since it happened.
Provide. Links. To. These. Comments.

If anyone knows you they know you love to a) stir the pot b) shit on Dave Meltzer and c) change narratives and make vague references to things that you then credit as being linked when they most likely aren't.

You say that you have talked about or "hinted" - hinting being something you love to do - at Taeler's situation.

In that case, provide some links to these comments. I recall you being one of the forerunners in the "Mandy Leon got Taeler fired" stories, but I don't recall you or anyone else mentioning or referencing that Jay Lethal had potentially harassed any member of the ROH roster. That's something we'd probably remember.

So don't bother typing another thing. Just provide links to your "hinting". If you can do so, I'll admit to being wrong.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Big Red Machine »

Wilson wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:38 pm BRM, you gave a lot of good faith arguments, and I'll try to match your tone as I respond to your post.
I find talk about SBG to be... less than completely relevant. The rovert1's statements about Sinclair both here and in the other thread are evidence that if such a thing happened, Sinclair would be inclined to not punish the wrongdoers without public pressure. That should not be mistaken for evidence- or even a strong argument- that such a thing actually did happen.
When you see a pattern in Sinclair's gender imbalance, stymieing women anchors and journalists (as well as progressives), you get a sense of their overall priorities. If mid-management staff doesn't feel free to address these issues at Sinclair proper, you can expect that wouldn't be proper protocols set up for women to thrive in ROH.
I will admit that assuming people act in good faith has occasionally been a weakness of mine.

I just don't see any sort of evidence that Sinclair exerts that much influence over ROH. They could if they want to, but they don't seem to be doing so.
Based on the list you gave below, the ROH office seems to very much be a wrestling office. Wrestling offices haven't been very good at dealing with this sort of thing historically, either, obviously. I guess I'm saying that if this is a problem in ROH, I think it's a wrestling problem rather than something imposed by our corporate overlords.
Wilson wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:38 pm
I agree that it is not good for trainers to be dating their trainees or for the head booker to be dating anyone in the company, but at the same time, (to quote, of all people, Triple H) "you cant help who you fall in love with." It would be ideal for Mandy to be working for someone else, but... the fact is that she really isn't a very good wrestler and I can't see any company that is able to pay a living wage wanting to take her. Sometimes people fall in love and everyone has to just accept it even tho0ugh it creates a bad situation in the work environment. Not every situation like this is either "powerful man taking advantage of vulnerable woman" or "gold-digging whore/ambitious career slut sleeping her way to money/power/success." Sometimes people just fall in love.
I used to think this was true, and that there were exceptions that could be accepted. That was until MeToo this past fall when we saw how drastically flawed these male mentor/female student dynamics could be. In Hollywood, the art world, sports, media, academia--these really prestigious institutions being compromised by irresponsible actors or outright abusers. The contrast in power is so stark--too stark. People in power shouldn't engage in these relationships. "You love who you love," to me sounds like a lot of masculine BS to cover up their unethical tracks. (Triple H's relation to Stephanie is also much different than Delirious and Mandy. I don't think you were alluding to that, but I just want to be clear.)
I didn't mean to imply that these situations were the same as Steph Hunter. It was just a wrestling quote that popped into my mind that I guess fit because that is also a relationship in which a talent is accused of receiving preferential booking due to a relationship with an executive.
I guess you can attribute this to me wanting to believe that people are acting in good faith. Such relationships are inappropriate, but I just don't think it's fair to believe that all of them are based in malicious lust.
Wilson wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:38 pm
Also, re the pushes of Kelly and Mandy, there is a third possibility that people seem to not be considering, which was a reason people used to give for the booker of a territory pushing himself/his friends: the assumption is that as long as they are dating someone in the office, they won't leave the company out of loyalty. It's still not a great situation in that it's not the ideal meritocracy, but it's not as malicious as the "I'm pushing my girlfriend because she's my girlfriend" aspect.
Mandy and Klein both definitely have their strengths. Concerns about their push could also be concerns about how other womens wrestlers carve their own space. Like how a Jenny Rose or Jessi Brookes read the landscape and how they try to move in a space with uncomfortable boundaries.
I bring this one up because this is actually a feeling I've been having about a lot of personnel decisions in ROH for a while. Kelly and Mandy happen to just be the best examples of it. Scorpio Sky would be another. An otherwise floundering indy guy who is friends with Daniels and Kaz and gets a full-time ROH contract because of it instead of one of the many young, highly-touted talents on the indy scene nowadays. O'Ryan and Marseglia are the most notable but certainly not the only examples of guys in Brutal Bob's circle getting shots who aren't as good as the other names out there. I guess what I'm saying is an expanded version of what you're saying above, not limiting things to gender dynamics and sexual relations but politics and friendships in general.

Wilson wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:38 pm
As for the comment about ROH not having any female executives... that's certainly true, but how many executives does ROH actually have? Is it not just Koff and Delirious? I think that's an unfair accusation to level with such a small sample size.
Wiki's got some answers! Cary Silkin is considered an active producer, Greg Gilleland is the GM (and has been rumored to being the next Koff), Jerry Lynn is a producer as is Joey Mercury, Jeff Jones is head of social, and there's Joe Koff. Delirious and BJ Whitmer are uncredited in ROH personnel page, but they have both been confirmed to be in producer roles. Delirious also does creative, and I think has a hand in talent relations as well as the Dojo. The Dojo has several trainers, all men. There are legacy male hires that also influence the promotion like Todd Sinclair and Paul Turner. The regular announce team has always been men. Their longest-tenured women are probably Dojo graduates (Mandy, Jenny, or Klein). It's a boys club, which are notorious for ultimately valuing men over women.
You and I are using different definitions of executive. Based on your list I would really only consider Delirious, Koff and Gilleand executives. I guess I was thinking of it in the more formal, department head sense.
And isn't Sumie also a trainer now?
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Wilson »

Big Red Machine wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:27 pm You and I are using different definitions of executive. Based on your list I would really only consider Delirious, Koff and Gilleand executives. I guess I was thinking of it in the more formal, department head sense.
And isn't Sumie also a trainer now?
It's structurally all male. I think I would call a producer an executive as well. That's probably around 5-7 very high oppurtunities to diversify.

Sumie wasn't listed in their copy for the new and improved Dojo. To my knowledge she does a lot of unpaid work like boarding workers on excursion or newer talent. Because she is ESL, she probably can't be the vital office person the womens talent need at this point.

At the very least, this should be a wakeup call to hire more women in management/executive positions.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by cgstong »

ROH issued this statement to PW Torch:

We were troubled to hear the allegations that surfaced last night on Twitter. We take these matters very seriously and will be investigating this situation thoroughly, reviewing all evidence related to the matter. Ring of Honor strives to provide an environment and workplace where male and female wrestlers are free from any misconduct or abuse. We will take appropriate action upon the conclusion of our findings.
If you're having any issues with the forum tweet at me Twitter.com/ROH_World
or Fb.com/ROHworld
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Well I don't know about anyone else, but I am for one grateful that this thread has reignited the forum's equivalent to wrestling's Tommy Rich/Buzz Sawyer feud...The Dragon Saga vs. rovert.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by BurningHammer »

Now with the other statements that Taylor has released, she has said she sought council and they have been dealing with over this for the past year (I think that's what she said).

Lielly they will have already contacted ROH with regards to what has happened, yet the statement reacts as if this is news to them and they are finding out about it all, so is this ROH just bascially covering it's arse and trying to seem professional when obviously they have known about the matter for some time?

With regards to Lethal's previous relationship with his students yes it is unprofessional but if it is concencial without any pressures on the female party for anything, I personally don't have too much of a problem with it. If Lethal is doing his job to the highest of his ability and teaching the female party correctly and giving her the best possible chance to be a professional wrestler is their really too much of a problem there, especially if they are two single people. If he is obviously asking, pressuring them anyway with regards to sex or a relationship for teaching then that's a completely different matter.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by The Dragon Saga »

The Dragon Saga wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:53 pm
rovert1 wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:34 am
The Dragon Saga wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:24 am You have made no reference to any of this yet you're apparently "in the know".

So if Mandy and Klein's pushes come off the back of who their dating, is Sumie Sakai dating Greg Gilliland or Gary Juster?
I talked about or hinted at Taeler's situation since it happened.
Provide. Links. To. These. Comments.

If anyone knows you they know you love to a) stir the pot b) shit on Dave Meltzer and c) change narratives and make vague references to things that you then credit as being linked when they most likely aren't.

You say that you have talked about or "hinted" - hinting being something you love to do - at Taeler's situation.

In that case, provide some links to these comments. I recall you being one of the forerunners in the "Mandy Leon got Taeler fired" stories, but I don't recall you or anyone else mentioning or referencing that Jay Lethal had potentially harassed any member of the ROH roster. That's something we'd probably remember.

So don't bother typing another thing. Just provide links to your "hinting". If you can do so, I'll admit to being wrong.
No? Nothing?

Thought so.

Classic Trevor.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Buzz Sawyer »

As a fan of Lethal, I hope this isn't true. If it is however, then he needs to be gone.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by supersonic »

The big takeaway:

Keep Jay at arm’s length, ladies. After all, he doesn’t hide that he’s Lethal.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Kind of curious from this point forward as to how the crowds will react to Lethal. If it's too much of a distraction, we might see another abrupt title change.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Tigerclaw_x »

As much as I usually seriously doubt when women cry "sexual harassment", at this case I tend to believe it.
Why? Because she is not accusing a booker, or a manager. She is not accusing someone who is her direct competition (seen it in Allstate insurance when a woman accused a co-worker of harassment as he was her main competition for a promotion). She is accusing another wrestler who is getting a push and who is a "friend" of bookers. She was also a new comer, which puts her in dependence on what more senior wrestlers say and how they affect her career. Considering it is pretty much a public now that in wrestling world, everyone sleeps pretty much with everyone (Lita, Sunny, for example). I would not be surprised if Jay expected some action with Taeler and when she turned him down for one reason or another, he, retaliated, but not directly. Frankly,

I am pretty sure that ROH will do their outmost cover up for him, otherwise he is damaged goods and all the effort the spent in pushing him is going to waste.. I believe he did it. Why? Because there is no reason for her to single him out and not accuse management or bookers of same thing. Hope that if he is guilty she makes him pay.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by rovert1 »

The Dragon Saga wrote: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:49 am
The Dragon Saga wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:53 pm
rovert1 wrote: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:34 am

I talked about or hinted at Taeler's situation since it happened.
Provide. Links. To. These. Comments.

If anyone knows you they know you love to a) stir the pot b) shit on Dave Meltzer and c) change narratives and make vague references to things that you then credit as being linked when they most likely aren't.

You say that you have talked about or "hinted" - hinting being something you love to do - at Taeler's situation.

In that case, provide some links to these comments. I recall you being one of the forerunners in the "Mandy Leon got Taeler fired" stories, but I don't recall you or anyone else mentioning or referencing that Jay Lethal had potentially harassed any member of the ROH roster. That's something we'd probably remember.

So don't bother typing another thing. Just provide links to your "hinting". If you can do so, I'll admit to being wrong.
No? Nothing?

Thought so.

Classic Trevor.
Or I just haven't logged in since your long post. You come across as very odd and obsessive. It is the weekend.

My record on ROH especially during the time period this occurred in speaks for itself.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:53 am Kind of curious from this point forward as to how the crowds will react to Lethal. If it's too much of a distraction, we might see another abrupt title change.
It will certainly be interesting. Elgin has gotten it bad Swann and Callihan haven't gotten it all. How crowds pick who they react to this sort of thing (and others) will always absolutely baffle me.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by dhads7161 »

Callihan? What is the story behind Callihan? I know the Swann story and his wife dismissed charges so he's innocent.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by Big Red Machine »

dhads7161 wrote: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:07 pm Callihan? What is the story behind Callihan? I know the Swann story and his wife dismissed charges so he's innocent.
Domestic violence when he was dating Chrissy Rivera, if I remember correctly.

For the record, I wasn't advocating that people boycott Swann's matches or anything, as I am a big believer in the idea that one is innocent until proven guilty- or at least until a clear pattern starts to emerge (though that doesn't mean one should be faulted for taking such things into account before deciding to enter into a relationship with such a person), and I also believe that one who has served time in jail for such a thing should not be ostracized for the crime after he/she has completed his/her sentence. But there are a lot of other people who are eager to jump to conclusions of guilt with merely an accusation and treat the accused as such, and many wrestling fans are certainly among them; hence my shock that Swann hasn't had any problems.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by famicommander »

Lethal denied the allegations completely but also said that nobody should attack Taeler Hendrix. Hendrix posted a screen shot of a text message from Jay asking her to contact him. Not sure what that was supposed to prove on her part.

https://twitter.com/TheLethalJay/status ... 4319522816
Image

Also on Lethal's Twitter, a retweet from Alvarez:
We will have more on this later but according to ROH, Taeler Hendrix was never fired. She was not under contract, was working on a per-show basis, and was booked for events in April 2017, but then resigned in writing prior to those events.
Here are Hendrix's texts:
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by BurningHammer »

Wtih regards to the texts I don't really see anything other than someone wanting to talk about a rather troubling situation, unless everyone is meant to take away that Jay is trying to desperately to make sure she doesn't go any further with the truth with this.

Regardless they are hardly Elgin level's of communication.
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Re: Taeler Hendrix Alleges Jay Lethal Sexually Harassed Her

Post by ertooso »

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Last edited by ertooso on Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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