ROH MVP 2017

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Mr. Mojo Risin
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ROH MVP 2017

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Silas Young.

There was no one the ROH roster that had a better overall year. Not The Young Bucks. Not Cody Rhodes. Not Dalton Castle. One could make an argument for Jay Lethal, who improved his value in my eyes, but Silas Young is truly The Last Real Man here. What we have to remember here is that the days of 5 Star classics from ROH talent is a faint memory, so the criteria has changed. Consistency of match quality would be my top grade for any candidate to truly be worthy. Young delivered in spades this year. Let's take a look at how 2017 unfolded for The Last Real Man...

Silas entered 2017 fresh of a victory of future Hall of Famer Jushin Liger and an ROH contract. He floundered for a bit in the first quarter, with Delirious having nothing for him to do but casually tossing him and Beer City Bruiser in tag matches and a bullshit feud with Bull Dempsey. Young started to find his groove in a feud with Jay Lethal. In his promos, Young was sick of "The Golden Boy", as he coined him, Jay Lethal. What followed was a trifecta of matches between the two that proved Young's status as one of the best overall wrestlers on the roster. Their initial encounter at Best In The World saw Lethal go over Young, but if anything, this was far from over and the violence would escalate. Young and Beer City Bruiser fucked up Lethal's leg by having the latter splash onto it with a beer keg. This injured leg would cost Lethal in a match with Kenny Omega at New Japan's first show in the United States, adding more hatred to their rivalry. While Lethal was healing, Young really started his MVP status with a victory over future ROH TV Champion Kushida. His promos the following weeks focused on humiliating Lethal with him more or less calling him a pussy. The feud resumed with Lethal returning and brawling with Young all over and outside the arena. Match #2 was a Street Fight between them at War Of The Worlds U.K. which saw Young prevail. The rubber match between the two was going to be a Last Man Standing match at Supercard of Honor. History shows the babyface usually goes over the heel in the feud finale. Not so. Imagine my surprise that Delirious didn't fuck it up and went against the grain by having Young win. Silas wan't done yet. He capped the year off by winning the TV title in a Fatal 4 Way against incumbent champion Kenny King, Punishment Martinez, and Shane Taylor.

What also solidifies Silas Young for me as the 2017 MVP is his status as the true top heel of ROH, a role he plays to perfection. With Bullet Club and other guys on the roster being supposed heels, but playing to the crowd to above all else sell merch; Young is a throwback to where heels were heels and faces were faces. He doesn't give a shit about cheap pops or whoring his T-Shirt in TV ads. Young reminds of Ole Anderson back in the '70's. A guy looking for a fight and will fuck you up win or lose.

The final criteria for me? Young's ability to have a good match with everyone on the roster. Whether it's with Lethal or green as fuck TPT winner Josh Woods (I have yet to see this match, but according to fellow poster Famicommander it was Woods best match in ROH yet), Young knows how to put on a good match. He had a 3 1/2 star match with Jonathan Gresham on ROH TV a few months back I really enjoyed, and possibly would've gotten a higher grade had it been a main event. It's that all round versatility that I really enjoyed this year and put him in the same class as last year's winner Bobby Fish.

That's my thoughts. Agree or disagree? I appreciate the feedback.
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ActionJeffson
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by ActionJeffson »

Agreed 100%. He's the first name I thought of when I saw your thread.
Montana
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Montana »

Hmm, tough question. I think we could see a few different answers, based on what people feel makes a person MVP.

Although I really like Silas Young, i'm not sure i'd have him penciled in as MVP. To me, he's more in the "Roderick Strong" consistent Mr. ROH/veteran. Jay Lethal is also in this role, and both guys had very good 2017s.

The other guys in my head are Dalton Castle, Cody Rhodes and the Young Bucks. I've enjoyed the Dalton Castle rise to stardom in ROH. With his character and persona, I really enjoyed him getting the belt at Final Battle. Cody Rhodes has probably done more for ROH in one year, in terms of attendance than i can recall. He's bought the entertainment side into ROH, and played a great villain. Young Bucks, much like Cody brought a lot of buzz to ROH, and have some amazing multiman matches.

Last but not least, Marty Scrull.... when talking about Cody playing a villain, Marty also fits that consistent great matches role. Don't think i've seen him in a bad match. Hell, Adam Page was awesome too.

I guess my answer would be Bullet Club! Kind of cheating, but they brought the exposure and great matches to the product.
famicommander
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by famicommander »

Daniels had a great year too but I have to give it to Silas.
Thomas Bobo
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Thomas Bobo »

Montana wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:56 am Hmm, tough question. I think we could see a few different answers, based on what people feel makes a person MVP.

Although I really like Silas Young, i'm not sure i'd have him penciled in as MVP. To me, he's more in the "Roderick Strong" consistent Mr. ROH/veteran. Jay Lethal is also in this role, and both guys had very good 2017s.

The other guys in my head are Dalton Castle, Cody Rhodes and the Young Bucks. I've enjoyed the Dalton Castle rise to stardom in ROH. With his character and persona, I really enjoyed him getting the belt at Final Battle. Cody Rhodes has probably done more for ROH in one year, in terms of attendance than i can recall. He's bought the entertainment side into ROH, and played a great villain. Young Bucks, much like Cody brought a lot of buzz to ROH, and have some amazing multiman matches.

Last but not least, Marty Scrull.... when talking about Cody playing a villain, Marty also fits that consistent great matches role. Don't think i've seen him in a bad match. Hell, Adam Page was awesome too.

I guess my answer would be Bullet Club! Kind of cheating, but they brought the exposure and great matches to the product.

The thread is misleading. You hit the nail on the head as to what parameters we are being asked to use when determining "MVP." In-ring MVP does not equate to overall MVP all the time.

If listing the The Bullet Club in their entirety as the MVP is valid (I am not so sure in my own thinking), then I think it makes the most sense. With the best (?) financial year for ROH since the SBG purchase, The Bullet Club seems to be reason for that and that would be why I would give them the nod for MVP.
Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

I don't understand why this would be misleading. Whether it's the NFL or the NBA the distinction of the MVP has been based on the best performance given during a season. At no point in time has Michael Jordan or Tom Brady been given the MVP award based on financial results. If that was the criteria, you guys would be giving it to Hulk Hogan and John Cena then if we were to expand the horizons. I started this last year as an homage to the early ROH years when​ Gabe would tout Roderick Strong or James Gibson as having MVP years. Giving an MVP based on attendance and T-shirt sales seems like a cop out.
Thomas Bobo
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Thomas Bobo »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm I don't understand why this would be misleading. Whether it's the NFL or the NBA the distinction of the MVP has been based on the best performance given during a season. At no point in time has Michael Jordan or Tom Brady been given the MVP award based on financial results. If that was the criteria, you guys would be giving it to Hulk Hogan and John Cena then if we were to expand the horizons. I started this last year as an homage to the early ROH years when​ Gabe would tout Roderick Strong or James Gibson as having MVP years. Giving an MVP based on attendance and T-shirt sales seems like a cop out.
That's just it. It is about the distinction. Box office MVP, in-ring MVP, MVP on promos, the list could go on and on if we wanted it to. Could be all in one person or group or multiple talents.

You are also attempting to compare Jordan or Brady (athletes in a not predetermined sport) to a pro wrestler. That isn't relative.

I see where you are coming from with the Gabe historical analogy to make the comparison and with that acknowledgement I'd also say that the business has grown and changed since then to expand the ways that others might choose to view or categorize what constitutes an "MVP."
Montana
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Montana »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm I don't understand why this would be misleading. Whether it's the NFL or the NBA the distinction of the MVP has been based on the best performance given during a season. At no point in time has Michael Jordan or Tom Brady been given the MVP award based on financial results. If that was the criteria, you guys would be giving it to Hulk Hogan and John Cena then if we were to expand the horizons. I started this last year as an homage to the early ROH years when​ Gabe would tout Roderick Strong or James Gibson as having MVP years. Giving an MVP based on attendance and T-shirt sales seems like a cop out.
Often times people view MVP as a "player' the team cannot succeed without. Would the Bulls or Patriots win without
Jordan and Brady? Probably not. If you look at it in that aspect ROH can survive without Silas. True with most of the roster though. You could argue the most valuable asset to ROH is Bullet Club currently.

I'm just saying i don't see a clear cut in ring MVP for 2017. As you know it's an opinion, and i think there are a handful of worthy candidates.
Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Guys, I am just harken back to a time when you a wrestler on the roster that exceeded expectations and had their best year ever. From my perspective, if you are going to start throwing in attendance, merch, etc., why not make Koff the MVP? By those standards, if he doesn't re-sign The Young Bucks, then all of this doesn't mean shit.
kovs27
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by kovs27 »

I take no issue with Silas Young as the pick. Nothing said about him above it wrong and he was the best booked guy in the company all year. But to throw another name out there, how about Jay Lethal. Good feud early in the year with Cody that led to the texas bullrope match and Supercard of Honor. For a slower paced match it did a great job of engaging the audience and building the whole way through. I really liked it. He was the other half of the Young feud that was mentioned earlier. Could anyone else have done such of a good job of helping get Young further over and up the card? That leads to his current feud with Marty Scurll and what most consider the best match at Final Battle. I'm sure I'm missing other good matches he has had in ROH this year but I think Lethal has done enough to have his name in the discussion.
Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ROH MVP 2017

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

kovs27 wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:50 am I take no issue with Silas Young as the pick. Nothing said about him above it wrong and he was the best booked guy in the company all year. But to throw another name out there, how about Jay Lethal. Good feud early in the year with Cody that led to the texas bullrope match and Supercard of Honor. For a slower paced match it did a great job of engaging the audience and building the whole way through. I really liked it. He was the other half of the Young feud that was mentioned earlier. Could anyone else have done such of a good job of helping get Young further over and up the card? That leads to his current feud with Marty Scurll and what most consider the best match at Final Battle. I'm sure I'm missing other good matches he has had in ROH this year but I think Lethal has done enough to have his name in the discussion.
Oh yeah for sure. I thought Lethal had a tremendous year and he easily was my second choice. I was wary of re-signing Lethal after losing the World title because I was not sure he would have anything to do. I was glad I was wrong as I enjoyed Lethal more now than I had anticipated. He really made the feud with Cody work and elevated Silas to the upper part of the card. Jay Lethal had a tremendous year.
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