ROHWorld.com Forum

Dalton Castle has gotten very stale for me. I am sick of The Boys. I fucking hate them. They are annoying distractions. It has become a comedy side act that has gotten old. Like Toru Yano and his overly stale comedy act, it's fucking boring now. When you become a comedy act, it's hard for the fans to take you seriously as a main event act. No matter how over you are.

Delirious kind of has Castle by the balls. With the Velveteen Dream starting to be more of a feature on NXT and having a similar gimmick, he can't exactly run over there now.

The 6 man titles are purgatory. Hard to believe that Dalton Castle, who was challenging for the ROH World title less than 6 months ago, is light years away from credibly challenging either singles titles.

I'm sure Delirious doesn't see Castle as a strong singles wrestler. I don't even think he has in mind giving Dalton a singles championship.

On the other hand, he knows people love him (bc, you know, he's the most over superstar of his roster) and that's why he keep him on the roster.

A gimmick like that has its ceiling. It can only go so far unless the bookers/writers are all in with it always thinking of new material for it. May be beneficial to see how the gimmick does as a heel. Maybe turn his relationship with the boys abusive in nature.

dhads7161 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:59 am A gimmick like that has its ceiling. It can only go so far unless the bookers/writers are all in with it always thinking of new material for it. May be beneficial to see how the gimmick does as a heel. Maybe turn his relationship with the boys abusive in nature.

That's kind of how I see it going too. It's just a matter of when the fans turn apathetic towards Castle. Do you have him keep the gimmick still after the heel turn, or rely on Castle to come up with something else?

This is where I was with him about ten months after he debuted. He's got the same comedy spots that he does in every match and the rest of the roster are forced to look like idiots by having to pretend to be totally unprepared and taken aback by something they've all seen a million times by now. And it's not like he's touching them like Goldust would. Dalton is just behind his body in funny ways and walking like a weirdo.

dhads7161 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:59 am A gimmick like that has its ceiling. It can only go so far unless the bookers/writers are all in with it always thinking of new material for it. May be beneficial to see how the gimmick does as a heel. Maybe turn his relationship with the boys abusive in nature.

In a previous climate (maybe even as few as three or four years ago) I think this would have been a great idea, but in today's day and age I'd be worried about SJWs trying to turn it into a thing. There were a bunch of wrestling fans in the mid-2000s that got really upset over the Jade Chung stuff, so I can only imagine that it will be worse today, both due to the climate and ROH's larger footprint.

The other issue with it isn't so much an issue with the idea itself as it is with the logical follow-up to it, which is "what do you do with the Boys afterwards?" They can't go back to Dalton, so maybe you make them a jobber team? Or just drop them? I wouldn't really object to either.

Get rid of The Boys. Forever.

I love Dalton Castle and Toru Yano.

In fact, I have now decided that I NEED a six man team of Castle, Yano, and Joey Ryan.

Eh, I booked the turn, I'll pass the book to someone else for the follow up.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:34 pm This is where I was with him about ten months after he debuted. He's got the same comedy spots that he does in every match and the rest of the roster are forced to look like idiots by having to pretend to be totally unprepared and taken aback by something they've all seen a million times by now. And it's not like he's touching them like Goldust would. Dalton is just behind his body in funny ways and walking like a weirdo.

Exactly. I'm waiting for someone to kick Castle in the stomach when he does the hands on his hips and arches his lower back. When Bully Ray didn't do this a few weeks ago, I knew no one would. The cheap pop prevails over believability.

famicommander wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:36 pm I love Dalton Castle and Toru Yano.

I've never met you before, I think this statement makes you my mortal enemy, and I am hereby challenging you to a fight on the rim of an active volcano.

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:34 pm This is where I was with him about ten months after he debuted. He's got the same comedy spots that he does in every match and the rest of the roster are forced to look like idiots by having to pretend to be totally unprepared and taken aback by something they've all seen a million times by now. And it's not like he's touching them like Goldust would. Dalton is just behind his body in funny ways and walking like a weirdo.

Exactly. I'm waiting for someone to kick Castle in the stomach when he does the hands on his hips and arches his lower back. When Bully Ray didn't do this a few weeks ago, I knew no one would. The cheap pop prevails over believability.

This right here is the problem. The desire for the cheap pop. And it's not just beating out believably. It is beating out good booking (too many instances of the more popular team winning on house shows when the best thing for the booking would be for the other team to win), and continuity in general (anyone else remember AJ Styles celebrating with Bullet Club in Duluth mere weeks after being violently kicked out of the group?).

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:27 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:34 pm This is where I was with him about ten months after he debuted. He's got the same comedy spots that he does in every match and the rest of the roster are forced to look like idiots by having to pretend to be totally unprepared and taken aback by something they've all seen a million times by now. And it's not like he's touching them like Goldust would. Dalton is just behind his body in funny ways and walking like a weirdo.

Exactly. I'm waiting for someone to kick Castle in the stomach when he does the hands on his hips and arches his lower back. When Bully Ray didn't do this a few weeks ago, I knew no one would. The cheap pop prevails over believability.

This right here is the problem. The desire for the cheap pop. And it's not just beating out believably. It is beating out good booking (too many instances of the more popular team winning on house shows when the best thing for the booking would be for the other team to win), and continuity in general (anyone else remember AJ Styles celebrating with Bullet Club in Duluth mere weeks after being violently kicked out of the group?).

I agree with the problem of looking always for the cheap pop, but I disagree with the AJ Styles thing. That was his last show for ROH and the last time the Bullet Club will be in the same show. There was tension between both sides all night and the only moment when they "celebrate" together was the end of the show. It wasn't even a celebration because Anderson/Gallows/Bucks lost that match. It was just an emotial moment breacking the kayfabe. Their curtain call.

But yeah, now there's a big problem with getting cheap pops. Like Silas Young told me, the problem right now is that there are a ton of wrestlers that want to be heels, but they still want to get big pops, applauses and big ovations.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:23 am

famicommander wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:36 pm I love Dalton Castle and Toru Yano.

I've never met you before, I think this statement makes you my mortal enemy, and I am hereby challenging you to a fight on the rim of an active volcano.

I'll put bubblegum in your hair and push you off the merry-go-round. Dont push me.

AlexROH wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:47 am

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:27 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Exactly. I'm waiting for someone to kick Castle in the stomach when he does the hands on his hips and arches his lower back. When Bully Ray didn't do this a few weeks ago, I knew no one would. The cheap pop prevails over believability.

This right here is the problem. The desire for the cheap pop. And it's not just beating out believably. It is beating out good booking (too many instances of the more popular team winning on house shows when the best thing for the booking would be for the other team to win), and continuity in general (anyone else remember AJ Styles celebrating with Bullet Club in Duluth mere weeks after being violently kicked out of the group?).

I agree with the problem of looking always for the cheap pop, but I disagree with the AJ Styles thing. That was his last show for ROH and the last time the Bullet Club will be in the same show. There was tension between both sides all night and the only moment when they "celebrate" together was the end of the show. It wasn't even a celebration because Anderson/Gallows/Bucks lost that match. It was just an emotial moment breacking the kayfabe. Their curtain call.

But yeah, now there's a big problem with getting cheap pops. Like Silas Young told me, the problem right now is that there are a ton of wrestlers that want to be heels, but they still want to get big pops, applauses and big ovations.

Silas Young is spot on. With him, there are no shades of grey or hangups about getting over with the fans. You get what you see with him. A true heel.

AlexROH wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:47 am

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:27 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Exactly. I'm waiting for someone to kick Castle in the stomach when he does the hands on his hips and arches his lower back. When Bully Ray didn't do this a few weeks ago, I knew no one would. The cheap pop prevails over believability.

This right here is the problem. The desire for the cheap pop. And it's not just beating out believably. It is beating out good booking (too many instances of the more popular team winning on house shows when the best thing for the booking would be for the other team to win), and continuity in general (anyone else remember AJ Styles celebrating with Bullet Club in Duluth mere weeks after being violently kicked out of the group?).

I agree with the problem of looking always for the cheap pop, but I disagree with the AJ Styles thing. That was his last show for ROH and the last time the Bullet Club will be in the same show. There was tension between both sides all night and the only moment when they "celebrate" together was the end of the show. It wasn't even a celebration because Anderson/Gallows/Bucks lost that match. It was just an emotial moment breacking the kayfabe. Their curtain call.

But yeah, now there's a big problem with getting cheap pops. Like Silas Young told me, the problem right now is that there are a ton of wrestlers that want to be heels, but they still want to get big pops, applauses and big ovations.

Still shouldn't break kayfabe, IMO. I'd have had AJ clean house on Bullet Club at the end and get the moment alone. The only guys leaving AJ, Gallows, and Anderson, and of the three, only AJ has done enough for ROH to deserve the special send-off.