Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

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Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Same class as Xavier, Lynn, and Elgin
4
24%
Higher than that - specify the level
13
76%
 
Total votes: 17

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Thelone
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Thelone »

Wilson wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:54 am I'm still utterly baffled why creative would opt into having their champion lose such an advertised program one week into their reign.
Again, because Gedo isn't a dumbshit, most likely saw a mile away that #TheCodyMan was going to win the belt at BITW and decided to put him against his top guy before the switch so Delirious was screwed because "I ain't changing my main event, that was your call Lizard Man [EVIL LAUGH]".

I find it fascinating that not a lot of people seems to get the symbolism of New Japan's two top guys beating the current ROH champion and the longest reigning one of the modern era pretty much clean on US soil.
Not to feed only into antagonism, but does Cody's loss to Okada seem to anyone else a form of Deliri-ism (compare to: Inoki-ism)? How does ROH address that Cody lost clean in the biggest match of his career? He is two weeks into his title reign, and I fear that he may already need building back up to the general audience, especially if ROH is keen on making him babyface--which may or may not be what was indicated during the tapings. And how do you go back into building up the top belt? In and out of kayfabe, the ROH World Title feels completely inconsequential.
Not putting the belt on him should have been step one of "Rebuilding the ROH World Title".
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Thelone wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:07 am
Wilson wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:54 am I'm still utterly baffled why creative would opt into having their champion lose such an advertised program one week into their reign.
Again, because Gedo isn't a dumbshit, most likely saw a mile away that #TheCodyMan was going to win the belt at BITW and decided to put him against his top guy before the switch so Delirious was screwed because "I ain't changing my main event, that was your call Lizard Man [EVIL LAUGH]".

I find it fascinating that not a lot of people seems to get the symbolism of New Japan's two top guys beating the current ROH champion and the longest reigning one of the modern era pretty much clean on US soil.
Not to feed only into antagonism, but does Cody's loss to Okada seem to anyone else a form of Deliri-ism (compare to: Inoki-ism)? How does ROH address that Cody lost clean in the biggest match of his career? He is two weeks into his title reign, and I fear that he may already need building back up to the general audience, especially if ROH is keen on making him babyface--which may or may not be what was indicated during the tapings. And how do you go back into building up the top belt? In and out of kayfabe, the ROH World Title feels completely inconsequential.
Not putting the belt on him should have been step one of "Rebuilding the ROH World Title".
Thelone makes perfect sense as usual. I am gonna go one step further and say Gedo has his hand indirectly booking some ROH decisions. Didn't he want Cole and Page in Bullet Club? I believe both guys have gone on record saying so. What's Delirious going to do? Ignore it? That would be fucking dumb. Genius move by Gedo?
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Wilson »

Thelone wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:07 am I find it fascinating that not a lot of people seems to get the symbolism of New Japan's two top guys beating the current ROH champion and the longest reigning one of the modern era pretty much clean on US soil.
As symbolic as Omega going over the then-champion Daniels after fucking off for a year in a meaningless six-man tag and then promptly fucking right-off again?

All I can say is that at least Omega and Okada did their best to make Cody and Lethal shine in their matches (which, incidentally, also revealed the disparity in workrate between the top wrestlers in each promotion).
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Wilson wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:50 am
Thelone wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:07 am I find it fascinating that not a lot of people seems to get the symbolism of New Japan's two top guys beating the current ROH champion and the longest reigning one of the modern era pretty much clean on US soil.
As symbolic as Omega going over the then-champion Daniels after fucking off for a year in a meaningless six-man tag and then promptly fucking right off again?

All I can say is that at least Omega and Okada did their best to make Cody and Lethal shine in their matches (which, incidentally, also revealed the disparity in workrate between the top wrestlers in each promotion).
Yeah they did. I had very low expectations for Okada/Cody and it far exceeded that. Not blow awesome, but a true testament to how great of worker Okada is turning out to be.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Big Red Machine »

famicommander wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:41 am Gedo would never allow it, but there should be a return match. Okada's victory should earn him an ROH World Title shot, which he should lose cleanly to Cody.
And everyone knew that going in, which has me completely baffled as to why this title change took place on this show. It seems to me like it would have made more sense to build Cody up a bit more and do the title change at the UK shows, which would allow Daniels to at least have a respectable run with the belt.
And, if the two companies really wanted to work together you could have Daniels in the G1 in Block A where you can easily have him come in a respectable tie for second with Tanahashi (let's not pretend it's not obvious that Naito is winning that block) and then your story going into the UK shows is that Daniels was worn down from the G1 and Cody wasn't to protect Daniels so you can build to a rematch at DBD. This way you still have the situation in Bullet Club where Omega isn't a world champion but Cody is, but Daniels gets a longer reign, we make the ROH World Title look better in Japan due to Daniels excellent performance in the G1 and use Daniels' G1 losses to someone like Ishii or Ibushi to set up ROH World Title defenses for Cody, either in the US or in New Japan (a Cody win over Ibushi could add some fuel to a possible Ibushi vs. Omega Tokyo Dome match because Omega has never beaten Ibushi), and the ROH World Champion doesn't have to do out and do a clean job for the IWGP Heavyweight Champion, and on US TV no less.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Thelone »

Wilson wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:50 amAs symbolic as Omega going over the then-champion Daniels after fucking off for a year in a meaningless six-man tag and then promptly fucking right-off again?
Nah, this is just Delirious being a clueless idiot as usual. I mean, fucking Kazarian was right there, throw HIM under the bus.

Can't wait for BRM to chip in and mention that one time Cheeseburger pinned Daniels on PPV that lead absolutely nowhere.
All I can say is that at least Omega and Okada did their best to make Cody and Lethal shine in their matches (which, incidentally, also revealed the disparity in workrate between the top wrestlers in each promotion).
I'm not saying that the NJPW guys just squashed the ROH talent like a bunch of worthless jobbers, but this is still NJ's top guy beating ROH's newly crowned champion and NJ's #2 beating... I guess ROH's #2 in the semi-final of a tournament for a 3rd-tier belt. Let's add the fact that KUSHIDA is the TV champion and the US belt will be defended on ROH shows where Omega will beat anyone to thunderous cheers, I can't help but feel like this NJPW-ROH relationship has run its course.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by dhads7161 »

It will definitely be bottom of the barrell but not because of Cody but because of Ring of Honor's current state. The company is at bigget LOL levels than Impact right now and that's fucking sad. Impact actually is making an effort to improve its roster and product. Where is the effort from ROH?
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Interesting stuff from Cody on Cole, Strong, Young Bucks/Revival, and his belief that The Young Bucks are the best tag team in the world.

https://411mania.com/wrestling/cody-rho ... n-revival/

I don't know why I posted it here, but I did.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by cgstong »

He's so far defended the title in two promotions outside of ROH so that has to be a good thing
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by famicommander »

dhads7161 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:21 pm It will definitely be bottom of the barrell but not because of Cody but because of Ring of Honor's current state. The company is at bigget LOL levels than Impact right now and that's fucking sad. Impact actually is making an effort to improve its roster and product. Where is the effort from ROH?
I was with you until you said worse than Impact.

Josh Mathews, Jeremy Borash, and D'Angelo Williams just had matches on their second biggest cards of the year. An MMA fighter and a retired great got physically involved in the main event. They booked a two time X-Division Champ in a Hornswoggle feud.

Plus they just merged their company with a failed indie Jeff Jarrett once tried to fund with internet cash for gold schemes.

It's not even close to Impact or WWE levels of carny nonsense.

It's still bad, and should still be called out, but come on. Vince McMahon has a character with super powers (Wyatt) on his show who has a win/loss record of like 35%.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by cgstong »

There is some effort from ROH on some levels such as production. When it comes to talent they are bringing in new faces. At the same time Impact is bringing in guys for that Super X tourney which might seem like a good thing but I don't see it being that much better than what ROH is doing right now.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by famicommander »

It is also telling that Impact partners with companies in financial disarray (AAA and NOAH) while ROH partners with perhaps the only two truly successful major promotions in the world besides WWE (NJPW and CMLL).
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by dhads7161 »

You look at some of these guys in Impact and realize they should be with ROH. The Wolves, Sydal, Trevor Lee, Everett, now ACH it stings that Impact has these guys rather than ROH. I'd love to see Eddie and Davey back. Sydal worked hard when he was booked, we had Everett in 2014 before his injury, Trevor Lee is probably one of the most underrated Cruiserweights/Junior Heavyweight wrestlers there are in the world right now, the fact that ROH failed miserably with ACH is ridiculous.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Big Red Machine »

cgstong wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:38 am He's so far defended the title in two promotions outside of ROH so that has to be a good thing
Marginally. It's a good thing if ROH builds it up in some way like they did during Aries' first reign, or when Morishima would take the belt to NOAH. If they just let it go completely unremarked like they did with Lethal (excluding defenses in New Japan) and (mostly) did with Daniels then it doesn't mean a thing.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by dhads7161 »

I was actually at the title defense he had in Glory Pro last night and that show was stacked. Every time I see Elgin I'm reminded how much I miss him in ROH, Dijak such a shame he's gone as I feek he was starting to really hit his stride and his match vs. Marufuji is actually the reason I made that three hours drive yesterday even moreso than Elgin vs. Cody. ROH really needs to take a look at some of the St. Louis indy guys in particular Brandon Espinosa.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by famicommander »

dhads7161 wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:51 am You look at some of these guys in Impact and realize they should be with ROH. The Wolves, Sydal, Trevor Lee, Everett, now ACH it stings that Impact has these guys rather than ROH. I'd love to see Eddie and Davey back. Sydal worked hard when he was booked, we had Everett in 2014 before his injury, Trevor Lee is probably one of the most underrated Cruiserweights/Junior Heavyweight wrestlers there are in the world right now, the fact that ROH failed miserably with ACH is ridiculous.
It probably stings Impact fans just as much to see Jay Lethal, Frankie Kazarian, Chris Sabin, Alex Shelley, Cody Rhodes, Bully Ray, The Young Bucks (Generation Me, lol), Kenny King, and Christopher Daniels in ROH.

There has always been a lot of movement back and forth between Impact and ROH.

I do hope Eddie and Davey come home soon, though. ACH is and Sydal are both awesome as well but I would be surprised to see either back so soon after leaving. But Eddie and Davey have been gone a long while.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by AlexROH »

ROH posted an article on his website talking about Cody's title defenses at indy shows. They didn''t mention the name of the promotions or the wrestlers he faced (bc his feud in kayfabe with the Board of Directors), but it's a cool thing:

http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/americ ... ign=buffer
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Big Red Machine »

"Very few instances" as if the previous champion didn't do it four different times in three months, LOL. But now Cody does it three times and it's supposed to be a big deal? You can't just have things be relevant only when you want them to be. And why, exactly, does ROH not want it named which promotions the belts were defended in? And why would successful title defenses not be counted in ROH's record books without interference from Cody's lawyers? Either the defenses are sanctioned, in which case this makes no sense and/or ROH Management are total idiots and are out to screw Cody, or they're not sanctioned, in which case they shouldn't count.

I like that they're trying to make the number of defenses feel important (although it will make the announcers look silly when they were adamant that Jay Lethal was the greatest ROH World Champion of all time when he had neither the longest reign nor the most defenses), but everything about this Cody vs. Board of Directors feud is SOOOOOOO dumb. What, exactly, is the problem with a "free agent" holding a championship? ROH management was giving title shots out to guys who weren't on the roster last year. Remember the whole "Roddy vs. The World" thing? Or Vinny Marseglia, a local nobody, being given an ROH World Title shot for no reason? And no one had a problem with Morishima being champion.

Delirious' booking is just like WWE booking. He gets an idea and thinks that if you scream the idea loudly enough, over and over again, no one will realize that the history doesn't support it and the internal details of the program don't make any sense. What a stupid f*cking hack.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am "Very few instances" as if the previous champion didn't do it four different times in three months, LOL. But now Cody does it three times and it's supposed to be a big deal? You can't just have things be relevant only when you want them to be. And why, exactly, does ROH not want it named which promotions the belts were defended in? And why would successful title defenses not be counted in ROH's record books without interference from Cody's lawyers? Either the defenses are sanctioned, in which case this makes no sense and/or ROH Management are total idiots and are out to screw Cody, or they're not sanctioned, in which case they shouldn't count.

I like that they're trying to make the number of defenses feel important (although it will make the announcers look silly when they were adamant that Jay Lethal was the greatest ROH World Champion of all time when he had neither the longest reign nor the most defenses), but everything about this Cody vs. Board of Directors feud is SOOOOOOO dumb. What, exactly, is the problem with a "free agent" holding a championship? ROH management was giving title shots out to guys who weren't on the roster last year. Remember the whole "Roddy vs. The World" thing? Or Vinny Marseglia, a local nobody, being given an ROH World Title shot for no reason? And no one had a problem with Morishima being champion.

Delirious' booking is just like WWE booking. He gets an idea and thinks that if you scream the idea loudly enough, over and over again, no one will realize that the history doesn't support it and the internal details of the program don't make any sense. What a stupid f*cking hack.
Yeah, I can't disagree with any of this. What's worse is that nobody cares. Cody can scream all day and it just doesn't mean shit. Delirious is just pulling shit out of a hat to see if it sticks. Anything that is half way interesting is solely by the hands of the talent. The actual storyline of Lethal/Young feud is meh, but I like watching those two wrestle each other.
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Re: Will Cody's ROH Title reign be bottom of the barrel or better?

Post by maxx_powerz »

So now that it's in the books ... Yes, this reign was bottom of the barrel. I'd say it's 80% on Cody, 20% on Delirious. The first two thirds or whatever we're just the drizzling shits, with the Sanada, Suzuki and Kushida matches all sucking. It's mostly on Cody for stalling so much and killing the crowd each time, but the random exhibition matches against Japanese talent with no storyline certainly didn't help. It felt like Cody turned a bit of a corner, as the Rocky Romero and Christopher Daniels no holds barred matches were pretty well received (and the Lethal match last week in RPW was too). I think if the match last night was better, you could make the argument Cody was hitting his stride when he dropped the belt. Since it wasn't better, I think the takeaway is that Rocky Romero, Christopher Daniels and Jay Lethal are great wrestlers who were more determined to help Cody look good than the Japanese guys. In hindsight, the Daniels / Cody fued should have ended at Death Before Dishonor instead of a random VOD and the fact they didn't run the match with Lethal on an actual ROH show when he's basically the only guy with a win over Cody is crazy. So yeah, lots of booking mistakes. Plus, since Cody's two best singles matches (SCOH and SotF with Daniels) have been gimmick matches, Cody might need to embrace that he needs the help, and he's more of a Steen style wise than the Danielson he clearly thinks he is.
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