War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Wilson » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:36 am

monster mafia wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:53 am
adam page,he works hard...hung bucks!!
the hungman...?

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by supersonic » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:44 pm

He'll never be HANGM3N.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:53 pm

supersonic wrote:
Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:44 pm
He'll never be HANGM3N.
Ugh. Bad Gabe booking angle.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by AlexROH » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:08 am

I've finally watched the Liverpool show. It was a pretty entertaining one! Nothing bad and tons of good things. It's easy to watch.

Before writting my ratings, I would like to talk about Dalton being the number 1 contender. I read that it was a stupid move since Dalton Got the pin at the Fatal 4 Way. Then I watched the show and realized that people who said that didn't watch the show. It's always the same with ROH on twitter, people who say "didnt know there was a ROH PPV today" are the one who post negative reviews without watching the show! Lol.

I mean. BC wants all the Gold. They don't have THE TV and, since Marty isn't winning it, they are interfering in every TV Title match. In Liverpool, Dalton was winning after hitting GangBarang but Page hit the referee. Then, Castle took the fall but after being hit with Marty's umbrella! In the main event, he answered Cody's open challenge saying that, since BC don't want him winning the TV Title, he'll go for the world Title. Maybe I'm crazy, but that fucking booking makes a lot of sense, IMO. You could do another better storyline? Maybe, but this one makes sense and I like it. Plus, Dalton is the most over babyface and Delirious always protect him, he didn't even Got a clean lost against Daniels.

Ratings, btw.

King vs Page **3/4
CMLL tag ***
Bodom vs Lethal ***1/4
LIJ vs Bully/Briscoes ***
Silas vs Haskins ***1/2
TV Title ***1/2+
Bucks vs Addiction ***3/4 MOTN
Cody vs SANADA ***1/2

Strong B Show. I enjoyed it a lot. Good build to Silas-Lethal final match. Great showcase By international talent. Strong titles matches, with the tag being MOTN. ME was good too, I'm starting to like Cody's work. Once you realize that he isn't Danielson or Joe, you can enjoy his work and role in the company.

Final rating: 7/10.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Wilson » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:05 pm

AlexROH wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:08 am
I've finally watched the Liverpool show. It was a pretty entertaining one! Nothing bad and tons of good things. It's easy to watch.

Before writting my ratings, I would like to talk about Dalton being the number 1 contender. I read that it was a stupid move since Dalton Got the pin at the Fatal 4 Way. Then I watched the show and realized that people who said that didn't watch the show. It's always the same with ROH on twitter, people who say "didnt know there was a ROH PPV today" are the one who post negative reviews without watching the show! Lol.

I mean. BC wants all the Gold. They don't have THE TV and, since Marty isn't winning it, they are interfering in every TV Title match. In Liverpool, Dalton was winning after hitting GangBarang but Page hit the referee. Then, Castle took the fall but after being hit with Marty's umbrella! In the main event, he answered Cody's open challenge saying that, since BC don't want him winning the TV Title, he'll go for the world Title. Maybe I'm crazy, but that fucking booking makes a lot of sense, IMO. You could do another better storyline? Maybe, but this one makes sense and I like it. Plus, Dalton is the most over babyface and Delirious always protect him, he didn't even Got a clean lost against Daniels.
You definitely shed light on the context of this finish, however it’s still an angle hinging on a number on contender that has a losing streak and more Bullet Club shenanigans, which was tired before the stable was even fully implemented in the company.

Not having a keen eye on the booking this year, am I wrong in saying that Dalton is still booked incredibly inconsistently? He goes on forever without any programs, he’s in and out of the six-man picture, he’s never in number one contendership matches (if those still happen other than via gauntlets). Dalton has always had the toolset to make himself a main event player in the company, he just needs a straightforward push (which implies direction) and he needs to be less of a gimmick (which I think he can, but there aren’t that many instances that I can recall him not being his usual goofy self). Also, as unfortunate as it is, I’m not sure the crowd is going to invest in any main event talent not playing at least some role in New Japan. I think that really hurt Daniels during his run.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:41 pm

The VOD video quality is once again beyond horrible. This is absolutely freaking absurd that they're uploading low bitrate 480p shows and charging for them.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:46 pm

famicommander wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:41 pm
The VOD video quality is once again beyond horrible. This is absolutely freaking absurd that they're uploading low bitrate 480p shows and charging for them.
Man, you should reconsider your subscription renewal. This has been an ongoing battle for awhile and ROH hasn't done jack shit to upgrade this.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:52 pm

I have a quad core gaming PC and a 4K monitor, and ROH's non-PPV shows look like VHS rips of 1994 ECW shows.

It's 2017 and Sinclair is a multibillion dollar broadcasting company. Video quality should not be an issue for these people. Even the Fite TV stream is WAY better than the one on ROH's own website.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:06 pm

The London show is 100% unwatchable. The audio keeps playing but the video freezes for seconds at a time consistently.

This is god damn ridiculous.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:13 pm

famicommander wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:06 pm
The London show is 100% unwatchable. The audio keeps playing but the video freezes for seconds at a time consistently.

This is god damn ridiculous.
Yeah I would be pissed too dude. You are not getting what you pay for. Video quality should fall into customer services but they don't give a shit. Your long standing concern about the video quality has certainly been noticed by me. Sorry man. I wish I worked for customer services because this is bullshit. Other subscribers shouldn't settle for this shit either.
Last edited by Mr. Mojo Risin on Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:17 pm

Low quality video is one thing but they uploaded a show that is 100% unwatchable. You're lucky to get 10 seconds of uninterrupted video in the London show.

I sent an email to help@rohwrestling.com. I would appreciate anyone else reading this doing the same.

And if you've not yet bought the London show, DON'T. It is literally impossible to watch.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:59 am

Got a response to my email
We appreciate the feedback. We are working on the issues described below; please have patience while we are in transition to a new website.

The London show has been taken down so we can fix the issue at hand.

Thank you
So at least it sounds like they're doing something about it.

Hopefully this new website launches soon.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:47 pm

famicommander wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:59 am
Got a response to my email
We appreciate the feedback. We are working on the issues described below; please have patience while we are in transition to a new website.

The London show has been taken down so we can fix the issue at hand.

Thank you
So at least it sounds like they're doing something about it.

Hopefully this new website launches soon.
Good job man. Your persistence is paying off.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:03 pm

I plan on taking full credit if/when they actually do launch the new website

(even though it probably has zero to do with me)

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:08 pm

famicommander wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:03 pm
I plan on taking full credit if/when they actually do launch the new website

(even though it probably has zero to do with me)
Don't sell yourself short. Your concerns could have been the difference. At least you did something about it and didn't roll over.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by famicommander » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:32 pm

The London show is back up on the site and, while the video quality still sucks, it's watchable. No freezes or anything.

So, baby steps in the right direction.

I'm actually encouraged that they pulled the show down immediately when their business hours started after I sent the email, then got it fixed and posted it again same day.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by AlexROH » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:04 pm

The three shows are now on ROHWrestling.com as VODs. Plus, for those NJ World suscribers, NJPW has uploaded some matches to his platform (the best ones or the ones with talents from NJPW or that usually work with NJPW).

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by AlexROH » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:46 am

Well, just watched the Edimburgh show. It was fine and had tons of interesting matches but the commentary table and the crowd didn't help. I mean, BJ Whitmer is AWFUL. I like Ian, but his work is worse when he isn't with Cabana/Kelly. The crowd, btw, was dead in the ME.

- Cabana vs King vs Bodom, *** Good and fast paced opener.
- Briscoes vs CMLL ***1/2, great stuff! With more time, this could have been great. An old-school lucha match with Briscoes doing a phenomenal job as heels.
- Bully Ray vs EVIL **3/4, fun while it lasted. Short and intense match with not so much to talk about.
- KUSHIDA, Mistico, Titan vs LIJ ***1/4, another fun match, but you know only KUSHIDA was working in full mode here. Another "for the enjoyment of the live crowd" Naito match. After watching his work on the UK Tour, I can say this new Mistico is a bad wrestler. Didn't like his work.
- Takahashi vs Haskins ***1/4, Great performance by Haskins! Would love to see him back in ROH. With more time, this could have been great.
- BC vs Dalton/Boys ***1/2-, Too long. The Boys hasn't got any heat. The better part was Page's performance. He did every big spot, got the pinfall and (finally) looked like a strong member of the stable, instead of the pin-guy.
- Cody/Scurll vs Addiction ***1/2, Very entertaining match! All these four played the crowd very well and put on a great spectacle. Really enjoyed this one (bc of the interactions or comedy).
- [Street Fight] Silas vs Lethal, ***3/4 match of the night. Silas and Lethal worked so hard and they worked a very strong 25-minute main event. They had a slow paced, old-school, street fight. With less violence but making every spot feel big; but the crowd was so dead that I could enjoy the match at all.

Fun show. After watching the full tour, I'd say London was the best one. So, if you can only buy one VOD/DVD, go and get the London show. This was a better in-ring show than Liverpool, but enjoyed Liverpool more bc the crowd was electric. The Edimburgh show was a long one (3.15 minutes it's long for the current ROH standards)and the crowd was dead in the second half.

Final rating: 7/ 10.

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Re: War Of The Worlds UK SuperThread

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:48 am

Here is my review of the of the Edinburgh show. Not sure if I'll be watching the others yet.



ROH (& NJPW, CMLL, & RPW) War of the Worlds UK Tour: Edinburgh (8/20/2017)- Edinburgh, UK

COLT CABANA PROMO- he doesn’t have a match for tonight, but he wants one. Josh Bodom comes out and they talk at each other until Bodom’s scheduled opponent, Kenny King comes out and cuts a promo on both of them. Bodom responds with some more talking and suggests a three-way. Ian Riccaboni tells us that ROH management has okayed it, so we get…

COLT CABANA vs. JOSH BODOM vs. KENNY KING- 6.5/10
This was a very fun three-way. Kenny pinned Bodom, which I hope is being done to set up a British Cruiserweight Title match rather than because ROH is just treating RevPro like New Japan usually treats ROH.

THE BRISCOES vs. REY BUCANERO & ULTIMO GUERRERO- 6.75/10
The Briscoes shook hands with the CMLL legends, but then attacked them as soon as they turned their backs to go to their corner. The big story here was Ultimo Guerrero rolling Jay up for the pin. Jay Briscioe, who they spent YEARS protecting, even when it made no sense to do so, got rolled up by Ultimo Guerrero. I don’t care how much of a legend Ultimo Guerrero is. What both he and Bucanero come across as any time they step into the ring is what they really are right now: two overweight old men. It really felt like this was the best match they could have had with the Briscoes, and this was nowhere near good enough for almost fourteen minutes against the one of the best tag teams in the world, and arguably the single best team over the course of the past fifteen years (who are both still in their early thirties, by the way).

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- The Briscoes argue. Mark starts it because he is upset with Jay for getting pinned, which, while on the one hand it is understandable, on the other hand makes Mark look like kind of a jerk when you realize that, during the years of Jay’s aforementioned ridiculous protection, which meant that Mark had to take every loss, I don’t think Jay got upset at him once. This is an issue because this seems to have been set up for Jay to be the one who turns heel if they split (his PMSing is what has started the team’s current heel trajectory), but if this causes them to split, it makes Mark not very likeable, which isn’t what you want out of a babyface. They walked off separately, because just when I thought Delirious’ booking couldn’t get any stupider, he starts to break up the Briscoes.

BULLY RAY vs. EVIL- 3/10
Before the match started, Bully Ray gave EVIL- the former Takaaki Watanabe- a man who has wrestled more matches in ROH than Bully has (and probably by a significant margin), a lecture on the importance of the Code of Honor. This would be the same Bully Ray who cheats in every single tag match he is in by doing a spot where he holds his opponent’s legs open so that his partner can headbutt him in the groin, and starts off pretty much every one of his singles matches in this company by cutting a promo saying that “what the fans really want to see,” which is garbage wrestling.
This match was a garbage match, but probably only because EVIL jumped Bully from behind when Bully turned to around to presumably ask for a mic to cut his standard speech. The match was pretty dull, and most of it was Bully getting the best of EVIL at his own striking game, and in order to get any sort of advantage on Bully, EVIL had to cheat more often than not. The fans were booing Bully and cheering for EVIL, but unfortunately that was not the indicator of intelligence that it would usually be, as Bully randokly started a “TABLES!” chant and the idiots chanted along. They also chanted “HA!” for EVIL. You know… like for Tozawa, that other guy Japanese guy they see on TV. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and just call them stupid rather than assuming that this was borderline racist.
The match ended when EVIL randomly decided to grab grab Bully’s metal chain and hit him with it for the disqualification. That’s right. Bully Ray defeats EVIL by DQ, because G-d forbid that a 46 year-old Bubba Ray Dudley do a job in a singles match to a guy being built up for an IWGP Heavyweight Title match against Kazuchika Okada.
After the match, EVIL got a table… and wound up getting chokeslammed through it by Bully Ray, so Bully was still the one standing tall at the end. I just… I don’t have any more words.

KUSHIDA, MISTICO II, & TITAN vs. LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Tetsuya Naito, BUSHI, & Sanada)- 6.5/10
I was really disappointed by this match. It felt like random action interrupted at random times by LIJ shtick or other lazy, tired heel stuff like trying to rip a Luchador’s mask off, even though there is no heat between LIJ and these guys at all. I get that LIJ are dicks, but if everyone is doing the same stuff in every match then none of it means anything. I cannot remember the last time I saw a masked babyface in ROH where the heel didn’t try to rip his mask off (aside from maybe Liger). The announcers can shout until they’re blue in the face about how disrespectful it is, but if it’s always done in a way that feels like just a random spot in a match that they know will get a reaction from the crowd and I never see or hear the wrestlers get angry at it, then it’s not going to mean sh*t to me. Speaking of heel stuff Naito had to use a low blow to get the win. He’s Naito. He just won the G1. So what if he’s a heel? This is Ring of Honor! Can I please get a clean finish?

MARK HASKINS vs. HIROMU TAKAHASHI- 7/10
Hiromu saw a fan in the front row with a Darryl so he went over and touched his Darryl to hers like a total babyface. He’s supposed to be a heel!
Hiromu hit Haskins with Darryl, who seemed to sell it as if Darryl is loaded, in which case you would think that Hiromu wouldn’t leave Darryl sitting on the announcers’ table where a babyface could grab it and find out that it’s loaded. There was a reason Chris Hero always had people on the outside to help him hide his loaded elbow pad. And either way, hitting Haskins with Darryl should still warrant a DQ because is a foreign object. Aside from that one spot this was a pretty great match, and I really hope the rumors of ROH seriously pursuing are true.
There was some to do about the a local sports team with an obscene name or something and the announcers (Ian Riccaboni and BJ Whitmer) just kept bringing it up all night, and the entire was always variants of “you say it.” “No, you say it.” “I can’t say it.” “Why not?” “Because it’s a bad word. If you want someone to say it so badly then why don’t you say it?” It was SOOOOO annoying. If there was anyone out there who found thins funny in the first place, they had probably gotten over it by third time they brought it up for the purposes of what was essentially the same joke, never mind the eighty-third time, and it has nothing to do with wrestling anyway, so why are you even talking about it? Because you’re trying to be funny? Well I’ve got some news for you: You’re job is not to be funny. Your job is to call the wrestling matches and get over the characters and storylines.

ROH WORLD SIX-MAN TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: Dalton Castle & the Boys(c) vs. Bullet Club (the Young Bucks & Adam Page)- 3.5/10
Dalton and Page do a bit of actual wrestling but then Dalton does his pose and Page gets so scared he takes a bump, meaning that we’re now transitioning into the stupid buillsh*t comedy phase of the this title match. Of course, the announcers have already been there since the get-go, as they’ve spent this entire match so far talking about how “The Boys got lost in the Scottish countryside.” They give any details. They just kept repeating that some variation of that phrase. Oh, and BJ Whitmer thought that this somehow meant that they weren’t the champions anymore. Let’s just ignore BJ’s incomprehensible stupidity and tackle the bigger question here: WHO GIVES A RAT’S ASS WHETHER OR NOT THE BOYS GOT LOST IN THE SCOTTISH COUNTRYSIDE THIS AFTERNOON?! Do they really think there are fans out there whose opinion of Dalton’s Boys will be altered by having an accurate gauge of their navigational skills?
The Ian also briefly talked about how “odds-makers” had told him that when Dalton & his Boys won the belts they were the biggest underdogs there had ever been in the history of anything. Well now I’m sitting here watching them get the better of the Young Bucks and Adam Page with very little trouble, so what does that say about Page & the Bucks?
One of the Boys grabbed his fans jumped into the ring and ROH Senior Referee Tod Sinclair made no effort to get them away from him. Why did this Boy do this? To “help” the other Boy rotate faster as he was performing a spinning headscissors on Page. Yay comedy. Now both Boys have fans and they fan Nick Jackson so that he loses his balance and falls off the turnbuckle, crotching himself.
After that point this became something resembling a PWG six-man, except that while PWG six-man tags, however spotty they might be, tend to be exciting and fast-paced, this was mostly boring and occasionally stupid, with a referee who seemed to exist only so he could be lured out of position when they decided a distraction was necessary (like during the Boys’ twin magic spot. You know; that thing that HEELS do? But a distraction was apparently not necessary when the Boys had foreign objects in the ring), and with Adam Page playing the role of Glenn Jacobs’ and Rick Bogner’s spiritual lovechild, Fake Adam Cole. The last two minutes and the first wrestling sequence between Page and Castle are the only things that save this from being a DUD, or possibly even slightly into the negatives.
So Bullet Club won the ROH Six-Man Tag Team Titles, continuing those titles’ spotless record of literally every single decision made regarding them having been bad for ROH, going all the way back to the moment of their conception. And yes, I am aware that they have been successfully defended against several teams that aren’t part of the ROH roster, or even several teams that aren’t even teams, and I think it would have been better for one of those teams to have won the belts so they could just disappear forever. The Bucks are already the tag champs, and they and Page often have to go work for ROH’s friends in New Japan, and because of the way that New Japan books their tours, this means they will likely miss a bunch of ROH shows and thus the belts will rarely be defended, and thus continue to mean nothing. But at the same time, I can’t deny that there is something very appropriate that these symbols of what is wrong with ROH are around the wastes of the Young Bucks and a guy who looked like a promising young star until someone decided that he should Russo Swerve his way into Bullet Club to be their American job boy.

THE ADDICTION vs. BULLET CLUB (Cody Rhodes & Marty Scurll)- 6.5/10
Addiction are wearing Roddy Piper inspired gear here in Scotland. Kaz then tells the crowd that Piper wasn’t a real Scotsman. While that might be true, it is, to me, a breach of kayfabe, and one that was done for no other reason than to get cheap heat. More cheap heat ensues, which worked for the live crowd, but for me watching at home, who is not from where this show is taking place, it’s just boring. How about if we give them some sort of concrete storyline so that fans can dislike them because of the dastardly things they’ve done rather than because they have to come out and say something mean about Localsville? Oh. Right. Because the booker is lazy and bad at his job.
Cody has the most obnoxious music in wrestling. Maybe if were actually good it wouldn’t be as annoying, but his failure to actually have great matches on the indies have all but justified WWE limiting his use to being a “space clown,” and here is coming out with this song that just feels like an artistic way of saying “I swear I’m totally not bitter about it!”
First the babyfaces waste time milking the crowd reaction. Then the heels waste time by arguing about whether they are supposed to wrestle with the kilts on or off. The bell finally rings… and there is more stalling, as Kaz goes over to give Daniels a hug, then more stalling plus some comedy as Cody responds to this by giving Scurll a kiss on the lips, which Marty sells by bumping in shock and looking very unhappy. We went a good minute and a half between the opening bell and the first time two opponents even attempted to touch each other. One short sequence from Kaz and Marty and now we’re wasting time with Marty milking the crowd for a tag to Cody.
We waste more time with Cody and Scurll milking the crowd for a reaction by getting ready to throw a t-shirt to them, just to set up The Addiction attacking them from behind when, after milking every side of the ring at least twice, they finally got ready to throw it, and like idiots, they chose the side of the ring opposite of where The Addiction were. How about if you press your advantage when your opponents roll to the outside- you know, like actually to win a wrestling match- instead of trying to get the crowd to cheer because you’re going to give one of them a free t-shirt? And if you wanted one lucky fan to have the t-shirt so badly, why didn’t you just toss it into the crowd DURING YOUR ENTRANCE? I have no sympathy for these idiot babyfaces.
Speaking of things that get in the way of me having sympathy for the babyfaces, Cody’s facial expressions. WWE might have made him look like a space clown, but on his own here, as the ROH World Champion and no paint on at all, he looks like a clown that forgot to put on his clown suit and face paint. He both looks and moves like a living cartoon, and it’s not natural to Cody Runnels. This is the act that he puts on when he wrestles because he thinks that this is what a pro wrestler is supposed to be. That this is how a main eventer does things to make sure that he or she connects with the crowd. But it doesn’t. When he gets punched it makes me want to laugh. He had better thank his lucky that stars that 1) Delirious is a mark, and 2) he or someone else pushed for him to get put in Bullet Club, the hottest babyface stable in the world despite the fact that they’re unrepentant heels. Without those things, he probably wouldn’t even have been in ROH after his feud with Lethal ended, never mind the ROH World Champion.
The match did have some good bits in addition to its frustrating bits, but the sad truth is that this is nowhere close to the level that we should get in the an ROH semi-main event involving four top guys.

STREET FIGHT: Jay Lethal vs. Silas Young- 9.25/10
They start brawling as soon as Lethal comes out, because they hate each other and this is a f*cking street fight. No comedy here.
That Russian Leg Sweep onto the ladder looked like one of the least fun bumps I’ve ever seen someone take (for both men!). That was soon surpassed by the bump Jay Lethal took onto the ladder later in this match, which, quite frankly, I’m shocked he was able to get up after. This was an absolutely tremendous match! Half an hour of violence that built almost perfectly from beginning to end. I have been critical of the choices of both Jay Lethal and Jay Briscoes being put in the babyface singles “face of the company” role because neither man has ever felt to me like the level of elite singles wrestler has been put in that spot in the past (Joe, Dragon, Tyler, Davey), but I’ve been racking my brain, and unlike Jay Briscoe, I can’t think of a time when Lethal was given the appropriate amount of time but didn’t come through. Maybe not always to the level that those guys would, but he has almost always put on the type of main events ROH should have when he has been given the time.

This was another disappointing show from ROH (and friends) that was pretty much singlehanded saved by the main event. If I tuned in to any random indy and saw a show like this I’d think it was good and maybe and worth checking out the next show, but for a company with a reputation like ROH’s, this just doesn’t cut the mustard when you consider the talent involved and the end results we got.

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