PW Sheet: WWE/SBG talks to sell ROH (Meltzer confirms)

[JTCole]

I wouldn't say that at all. Even the report says that there is no formal offer on the table, they are simply discussing the possibility. If anything, this will make Sinclair realize that ROH is an asset and that it should be viewed more as such.

Surprised rovert hasn't taken credit for this yet. I'm sure someway, somehow he knew about this months ago but didn't report it and instead made vague references to some big scoop that was going to drop and this was it.

Unless WWE offers them something they like.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I wouldn't say that at all. Even the report says that there is no formal offer on the table, they are simply discussing the possibility. If anything, this will make Sinclair realize that ROH is an asset and that it should be viewed more as such.

Surprised rovert hasn't taken credit for this yet. I'm sure someway, somehow he knew about this months ago but didn't report it and instead made vague references to some big scoop that was going to drop and this was it.

Unless WWE offers them something they like.

You know I sometimes envy The Dragon Saga. He is the eternal optimist with respect to ROH.

[supersonic]

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/stat ... 7178428420

[JTCole]

Sinclair keeping or losing ROH doesn't matter to them in the long run.

[rovert]

I wouldn't say that at all. Even the report says that there is no formal offer on the table, they are simply discussing the possibility. If anything, this will make Sinclair realize that ROH is an asset and that it should be viewed more as such.

Surprised rovert hasn't taken credit for this yet. I'm sure someway, somehow he knew about this months ago but didn't report it and instead made vague references to some big scoop that was going to drop and this was it.

Posted evidence on Twitter that I knew a long time prior.

Essentially the same detail Satin did too.

[rovert]

Sinclair keeping or losing ROH doesn't matter to them in the long run.

#TeamNoGreatLoss extends to the entire company. Love it.

[cgstong]

Surprised rovert hasn't taken credit for this yet. I'm sure someway, somehow he knew about this months ago but didn't report it and instead made vague references to some big scoop that was going to drop and this was it.

Hopefully said in jest, but in case not. Not really necessary to take a shot at rovert. Just throwing that out there. If said in jest, my apologies.

In fairness to rovert, PWPonderings also vaguely mentioned this on a Podcast of Honor either in Nov or Dec last year. Or earlier... Who cares who actually had the SCOOPZ. Good on Satin for putting it out there.

[rovert]

In fairness to rovert, PWPonderings also vaguely mentioned this on a Podcast of Honor either in Nov or Dec last year. Or earlier... Who cares who actually had the SCOOPZ. Good on Satin for putting it out there.

Gave credit Satin too. Observer/PWInsider sit on stories and Radican gets in slap fights on Twitter instead of putting his name a story on PWTorch.

[cgstong]

In fairness to rovert, PWPonderings also vaguely mentioned this on a Podcast of Honor either in Nov or Dec last year. Or earlier... Who cares who actually had the SCOOPZ. Good on Satin for putting it out there.

Gave credit Satin too. Observer/PWInsider sit on stories and Radican gets in slap fights on Twitter instead of putting his name a story on PWTorch.

Absolutely. I personally don't have as much of an issue on ppl sitting on stories as some do. Mostly cause many of us do.

In terms of this story I have no problem with it but at the same time would like SBG to really put forth an effort to do something with ROH before this becomes an ultimate solution.

Too late for a super nuanced answer. That will probably come later on.

[supersonic]

Observer:

Pro Wrestling Sheet reported on 3/22 that the WWE was in talks with Sinclair Broadcasting regarding purchasing of Ring of Honor.

There had been stories going around wrestling of talks between Sinclair and WWE regarding buying ROH in recent weeks, to the point over the past month, there were people asking questions to those in the company about the story. Those in the company denied the story being accurate at the time to talent that had asked.

Joe Koff had not commented at press time on the story, but others in the company have stated that they weren’t aware of any talks and that nothing has happened that would make things seem any different from business as usual going forward.

A major key to the deal would include the purchase of the ROH library, which has early matches of many of the current top WWE names including Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan, A.J. Styles, Austin Aries and many others. We’re told WWE first inquired about purchasing ROH dating back to August, and wanted to do so for more than just the tape library. There have also been at least minor inquiries and feelers about purchasing other independent companies, both in the U.S. and the U.K., for tape libraries and perhaps to limit outside options for talent.

If WWE was to purchase the company, the question becomes would they operate it and honor the contracts or close it down, like was the plan with TNA when there were negotiations to purchase that company a few months ago largely for the videotape rights and intellectual property going forward. WWE has a lot of developmental talent that really needs more ring time in front of fans than they are getting in the current system. It’s also beneficial for the company, as far as being able to keep pay for the top rising stars down by taking away alternatives, to control as much of the full-time U.S. marketplace as there is.

These reports won’t help morale as ROH is set up for what could be its largest attended show in its history on 4/1 in Lakeland, FL. In addition, the company is still scheduled for a series of joint shows in May with New Japan Pro Wrestling.

As noted many times, Sinclair has never gotten fully behind the company, which was ahead of Impact in a lot of facets including overall interest, but never was able to get the television production quality necessary to get the type of overseas money deals and national cable deals that have kept Impact barely afloat over the past year. The production of the television has improved over the past year. Still, both companies lost Destination America at the same time, but Impact was able to get on Pop TV, while ROH got on Comet TV, which was mostly low power broadcast stations that weren’t on most cable systems. Because of being on Sinclair broadcast stations, ROH reached more viewers weekly than Impact, but still lagged behind in production and overseas penetration.

Those in WWE had talked about meetings for such a deal two weeks ago, and for a few days the story was being talked about by people on the inside in other companies, but nothing had materialized. At this point there is nothing concrete as to where this stands or the odds of it actually taking place.

Still, just the idea they are talking will change the dynamic inside the company, as well as within New Japan and CMLL, who have working relationships with ROH. ROH was a place New Japan could send young talent to garner experience, such as Yohei Komatsu, Sho Tanaka and Jay White on the current roster.

It would also leave the leading company in Japan, as well as Mexico, if such a deal goes through, with limited options for an American partner. New Japan and Impact had a deal fall through years ago and Impact always had used the New Japan talent poorly. Similarly, Impact and CMLL had a working agreement at one point with the same end result.

The only other company of significance in the U.S. at this point would be Lucha Underground, and they are in bed with AAA, CMLL’s mortal enemy, and New Japan has always made it clear they wouldn’t work with anyone affiliated with AAA. Plus, Lucha Underground has lost so much money and seemed to really lose its way over the last year creatively. It has strong backers, but its battle plan was more to present television to get characters over with the idea of using those characters in a Sci-Fi movie as opposed to building a full-time wrestling company.

ROH had become, especially over the past year when salaries had been raised and business had increased, become a place where talent could bargain and key talent was offered more money than WWE or TNA were offering, and in other cases, even if they could make more in TNA, the feeling was that TNA wasn’t a place to go to build a name. It was also a way to stay in the business full-time for some who had talent but for whatever reason, WWE didn’t feel they fit into their promotion, as well as an American outpost for those who had deals with New Japan to work in between tours.

[BurningHammer]

Obviously it will all depend on how WWE uses ROH, I would hope that they would have learnt from the ECW debacle that subtle changes are what's needed and generally everything would just about stay the same but the WWE takes the profit, would this turn alot of people away I don't know, personally if ROH stayed the way it is but became part of WWE's larger organisation I would be fine with it in all honesty. As long as young quality wrestlers were given the opportunity to develop without any outside infringement and story lines matched what I am looking in for in wrestling that ROH delivers I don't think it would bother me.

If this deal though meant the likes of Rush, Kyle, Bobby, ACH, Keith Lee etc actually came back into the fold due to changes in management, business re-structuring etc but those guard rails and the likes of Bobby Cruise were still there why would anyone really care, personally I wouldn't at the end of day. Being owned by WWE or Sinclair isn't much difference apart from one company generally has it's mind on wrestling.

If it meant though that Bo Dallas would became ROH champion or the likes of the Accencion filled my screen every episode or PPV, Or that suddenly the boys weren't around and Cabana and Ian couldn't be my commentary team and it simply became NXT 2.0 then yeah I would have a massive issue with it all.

[The Dragon Saga]

I wouldn't say that at all. Even the report says that there is no formal offer on the table, they are simply discussing the possibility. If anything, this will make Sinclair realize that ROH is an asset and that it should be viewed more as such.

Surprised rovert hasn't taken credit for this yet. I'm sure someway, somehow he knew about this months ago but didn't report it and instead made vague references to some big scoop that was going to drop and this was it.

Unless WWE offers them something they like.

You know I sometimes envy The Dragon Saga. He is the eternal optimist with respect to ROH.

It's not that I'm an optimist, it's more-so that wrestling fans seem to have a tendency to blow any whiff of a story out of proportion. This story, is really simple - WWE asked Sinclair how they value ROH, Sinclair probably responded, WWE haven't done anything formal yet. So as Meltzer said, it's business as usual.

The best outcome that can come of this is Sinclair have a lightbulb moment where they realize, "if WWE wants ROH, then maybe we can do more with it", which in-turn leads to some more investment on Sinclair's part.

The worst outcome is, WWE purchases Ring of Honor.

While ROH went sort of "mainstream" a couple years ago and left behind their "underground" roots with a cult following in-order to better themselves as an overall promotion and to stop bleeding money like they were under Cary, WWE purchasing these promotions or linking up with these promotions take the fun out of supporting said promotions.

It's like PROGRESS, ICW and EVOLVE trying to say how their either, "punk rock" or "anti-authority" or "alternatives to the mainstream". I don't remember The Sex Pistols getting pay offs from The Queen after concerts. If you want to be something or build an image, not selling out at the first sight of some money and a rub isn't a good way of doing it.

[Buzz Sawyer]

Surprised rovert hasn't taken credit for this yet. I'm sure someway, somehow he knew about this months ago but didn't report it and instead made vague references to some big scoop that was going to drop and this was it.

Hopefully said in jest, but in case not. Not really necessary to take a shot at rovert. Just throwing that out there. If said in jest, my apologies.

In fairness to rovert, PWPonderings also vaguely mentioned this on a Podcast of Honor either in Nov or Dec last year. Or earlier... Who cares who actually had the SCOOPZ. Good on Satin for putting it out there.

Apparently it's a big deal to some people.

[Buzz Sawyer]

I see this as it being more then just a tape library. They know that New Japan is looking to get an imprint in the states and the WWE knows that NJPW/ROH work together. If they purchase ROH, then that is a potentially a big blow for NJPW to get momentum as a regular touring faction, as they use ROH TV as another outlet in getting their product out there and noticed. It helps them and weakens a company that has publicly said that the WWE is now it's rival. It's a 2 fold effect for the WWE.

[stevenkmason]

I'm doubtful that this will go through.

SBG is a large corporate entity, not a bunch of wrestling carnies- of course they're going to listen to a proposal, and even potentially explore terms. Unless WWE is willing to vastly overpay out of spite/wanting to shut down competition, they won't offer enough for it to be worth it for SBG.

Flo offered SBG in the neighborhood of $9 million on a 3 year deal for streaming rights and the library. WWE's offer to TNA was reportedly $1 million for the whole promotion, including library, contracts, and tv deals. Obviously it's a different situation because of the dire financial straits that TNA was in at the time.

WWE paid $4.3 million for WCW. Adjusting for inflation, that's $5.9 million today. WCW was more valuable to WWE at the time than ROH would be today, and WWE's wrestling profits (excluding losses incurred by XFL and the World restaurant) were more than double what they are now, almost triple accounting for inflation.

Traditionally businesses are valued for sale based on a multiplier of EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and amortization). The entertainment industry, which wrestling would most closely align with, is usually somewhere in the 4.5-7.5 range. ROH's EBITDA is less than $1 million at this point, and I would really guess dramatically less than that. I wouldn't be surprised if it were under $100k really. So that would put a purchase price anywhere from $500k to $4 million, at the VERY high end.

If you look at SBG's interest as that of a VC firm, which they're not, and they haven't behaved as, but I will for the sake of conversation, it still doesn't make sense. SBG likely purchased ROH for around $2 million. Any value added during their holding would largely be based on SBG related TV deals, which would not carry over in the case of an acquisition. They've made minimal capital improvements and most of their high value (to WWE) contracts, are complicated by the NJPW relationship.

My gut feeling is that WWE will make an offer in the $3 million range and SBG will walk away. ROH will continue operations as normal, but with lowered morale due to these rumors.

However, this is wrestling, and anything can happen. Vince could get a bug up his ass and overpay for ROH just to shut them down. To anyone in the know, this would be an obvious mistake as WWE has failed at producing superstars in-house. So even from WWE's business perspective, it makes sense for ROH to exist, at the very least so they can have an additional source of talent. Not to mention that anyone in business understands that competition breeds innovation and is almost always good for business.

[famicommander]

Anyone that can make it to Supercard of Honor should make a fuss about this. Anti-WWE chants, anti-WWE sign, anti-WWE shirts, etc.

Is there an email address that somebody relevant will actually see? Because if so, we should all contact them and let them know we won't support a WWE-backed product.

I have bought every single PPV and VOD show for over two years. I have seen every episode of ROH TV ever aired, going back to HDnet. I subscribed to NJPW World largely to see more ROH talent. I started following CMLL for the first time in almost 10 years because of ROH.

If they sell to Vince, I'm out. I'll just watch LU and NJPW.

[nickdiamante]

Anyone that can make it to Supercard of Honor should make a fuss about this. Anti-WWE chants, anti-WWE sign, anti-WWE shirts, etc.

Is there an email address that somebody relevant will actually see? Because if so, we should all contact them and let them know we won't support a WWE-backed product.

I have bought every single PPV and VOD show for over two years. I have seen every episode of ROH TV ever aired, going back to HDnet. I subscribed to NJPW World largely to see more ROH talent. I started following CMLL for the first time in almost 10 years because of ROH.

If they sell to Vince, I'm out. I'll just watch LU and NJPW.

Amen to that, man!

I'm so sick of the post-WCW version of WWE! The company that is focussed on filling the Network with content and getting on their knees for Shareholders. What ever happened to compelling storylines and good TV? I guess that doesn't matter when there is no relevant competition, and the majority of your fanbase is happy to show up at WWE live events simply to chant stuff.

I'm in the same boat. If SBG sells to WWE, I'm out too. I'll watch LU and NJPW, and maybe expand a little into Evolve and elsewhere. But WWE definitely won't be what I watch to get my Wrestling fix. If I wanted to watch a 90 second Cruiserweight match, I'd pop a couple of happy pills and watch an old WCW Cruiserweight match on fast-forward.

[JTCole]

If you think Sinclair would give one shit about fans making a fuss about this you're delusional.

[famicommander]

If you think Sinclair would give one shit about fans making a fuss about this you're delusional.

If we make a big enough fuss the product will be of less value to WWE.

There is a reason Vince wants to buy it. If everybody that has been paying for ROH's product tells Vince we won't pay him, he may pass on buying it.

I hope Sinclair doesn't sell, but if they do I'd much rather see Bushiroad/NJPW buy. Hell, even Anthem or Viacom. Anybody but WWE.

[JTCole]

If you think Sinclair would give one shit about fans making a fuss about this you're delusional.

If we make a big enough fuss the product will be of less value to WWE.

There is a reason Vince wants to buy it. If everybody that has been paying for ROH's product tells Vince we won't pay him, he may pass on buying it.

I hope Sinclair doesn't sell, but if they do I'd much rather see Bushiroad/NJPW buy. Hell, even Anthem or Viacom. Anybody but WWE.

No it won't.