Proving Ground/Champions

[dougiefresh605]

I know that ROH is trying out this new Proving Ground concept to determine challengers for the championships, but it just seems really stale and illogical. I'd rather just see the champions defend their championships on nearly every show like in the older days of ROH. For example, after next weekends shows, Jay Lethal will have wrestled in 4 non-title matches during his TV title run. Instead of those matches being proving grounds, they could actually have been for the title to give his run credibility as well as the belt. What do you all think?

[keith6601]

I agree. My main concern when these were started was that it would just be used as a way to have non-title matches on shows and not have backlash because the belts aren't being defended. I like the concept of making new contenders possibly, but you can do that in regular matches with the added Proving Ground tag line or in tag matches having the champ be pinned.

It also really depends on who's in the match as well though. Everyone pretty much knew Strong would earn his shot while someone like C&C Wrestling Factory wasn't going to.

[ROHWorld_Jon]

I think the Proving Ground concept makes sense for the TV Title at house shows, and that's really about it. The TV Title should only be defended on television and iPPVs, so having the Proving Ground matches for the TV Title at house shows makes sense. It adds a sense of importance to the matches without the title being on the line and could set up a title match on the TV show.

I don't like the concept for the World or Tag Team Titles.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone miss the Pick 6? I thought it was a pretty decent way of always having a good group of wrestlers who could compete for the title on any given weekend. Sure, most of them didn't stand a chance at winning the belt at the time, but it made for good title matches and was an interesting concept.

[The Generic Luchador]

I think the Proving Ground concept makes sense for the TV Title at house shows, and that's really about it. The TV Title should only be defended on television and iPPVs, so having the Proving Ground matches for the TV Title at house shows makes sense. It adds a sense of importance to the matches without the title being on the line and could set up a title match on the TV show.

I don't like the concept for the World or Tag Team Titles.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone miss the Pick 6? I thought it was a pretty decent way of always having a good group of wrestlers who could compete for the title on any given weekend. Sure, most of them didn't stand a chance at winning the belt at the time, but it made for good title matches and was an interesting concept.

I liked the Pick 6 but sometimes it never made sense.

[ROHWorld_Jon]

I think the Proving Ground concept makes sense for the TV Title at house shows, and that's really about it. The TV Title should only be defended on television and iPPVs, so having the Proving Ground matches for the TV Title at house shows makes sense. It adds a sense of importance to the matches without the title being on the line and could set up a title match on the TV show.

I don't like the concept for the World or Tag Team Titles.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone miss the Pick 6? I thought it was a pretty decent way of always having a good group of wrestlers who could compete for the title on any given weekend. Sure, most of them didn't stand a chance at winning the belt at the time, but it made for good title matches and was an interesting concept.

I liked the Pick 6 but sometimes it never made sense.

How so? I'm sure there are plenty of examples, but I'm just blanking right now.

I liked the concept because it set up a steady line of challengers, which is something ROH is desperately missing right now.

[The Generic Luchador]

I think the Proving Ground concept makes sense for the TV Title at house shows, and that's really about it. The TV Title should only be defended on television and iPPVs, so having the Proving Ground matches for the TV Title at house shows makes sense. It adds a sense of importance to the matches without the title being on the line and could set up a title match on the TV show.

I don't like the concept for the World or Tag Team Titles.

On a somewhat related note, does anyone miss the Pick 6? I thought it was a pretty decent way of always having a good group of wrestlers who could compete for the title on any given weekend. Sure, most of them didn't stand a chance at winning the belt at the time, but it made for good title matches and was an interesting concept.

I liked the Pick 6 but sometimes it never made sense.

How so? I'm sure there are plenty of examples, but I'm just blanking right now.

I liked the concept because it set up a steady line of challengers, which is something ROH is desperately missing right now.

I can't seem to remember either but from what I remember it felt like ROH was just putting random people on the list sometimes.

[Marketh.]

My problem already is that you earn a title shot by drawing or beating the champion. When Roderick got a draw with Lethal and refused to fight longer, after already earning a shot, he basically got called a pussy by Cornette.

Then why is there even that stipulation in the first place? It also demeans the "5 more minutes", which is happening pretty much every time limit draw nowadays.

[ROHWorld_Steven]

I liked the concept but I'm not too sure with the way they've implemented it. It seems to me that they've done it so they can get a few cheap draws out of it. They're happening far too regularly, especially with the TV Title and we could soon have about 5/6 guys who have or should have a title shot. If they happened now and again then it would add more importance to the match but they've gone overboard on it in my opinion and it's getting in the way of Lethal for example defending the title.

[keith6601]

The TV title should be having draws as there's a 15 minute time limit and most of those guys that are in contention usually have about 20 minute matches if not longer.

One of my biggest mark out moments at an roh show was the first defense of the belt by Edwards against Cabana when the time limit was announced as "tv time remaining".


I think doing the PG on non-tv shows and building up challengers is a good idea. The only problem is that they only have the belt defended once a month or so as they tape 4 episodes a show. If they had a title defense at least every other week, it would work better because the challenger list wouldn't get super long. Then again, I grew up with Sting/Muta/Anderson defending the tv title every weekend.

[ninetwentyfour]

It's a fine concept for TV, it's shit for house shows, and not in the sense that Jon was explaining, which I agree with. They'll continue to book the draws with the house show slate increasing, as it's an easy way to do rematches and have some sort of reason for them happening. The problem is they still want to give people a finish, so they book draws(setting up a future match), then restart them and do a finish. The booking of the GBH Lethal/Strong match really makes zero sense. So Strong loses, why would I now want to see him against Lethal for the title?

It's quite illogical, but more than anything else it annoys me cause you're sacrificing match quality with the late limit draw dynamics and the restarts. It completely kills matches. Which, perfectly acceptable for TV, but I don't think you should be doing that at all on house shows. I'll judge it this weekend because they'll at least do it in the WGTT/HOT match, but from the sounds of it, not good.

[davew00d]

The psychology of it makes no sense.

Why wouldn't the champs just let shitty challengers win the title shots?

Why wouldn't the challengers wrestle a conservative match to avoid defeat?

[dougiefresh605]

I think a Proving Ground match once in a while on a house show is fine, but not on every show. I'd rather just see the champions defend their titles and continue to give more credibility to their championship reigns.