And don't forget the Fight Without Honor with Adam Cole at FB 2014. Good, violent stuff. When I first watch it, I gave that match ****1/4. I don't wanna see Briscoe as World Champ again, but I think we can all agree that he's s great worker and phenomenal doing promos.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:In his second reign, the match with Joe (***3/4) and title change with Lethal (****) speak otherwise, at least in my viewing. I've never heard a critique that Jay is a bad worker.JigsawVs.Jason wrote:Oh hell no!!! Those two reigns were terrible in terms of in-ring work. I'd prefer Scurrl, Opsreay or Tanahashi.
Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
I did forget to note that, probably because it was more gimmick/hardcore heavy, but I'm right with you around 4/4.25.
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
That's two good and one great match over the course of two title reigns, are you forgetting about terrible main events like the 14th Anniversary Show, Briscoe/Cole (Border Wars) or Briscoe/Briscoe (BITW), which ranged from terrible to good but nowhere near main event level. Yes, Briscoe is a good worker, but not good eough to have main event matches in a wrestlig-heavy company like ROH, hence why most of his title defenses were turned into No DQ matches or multimen matches to hide his weaknesses.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:In his second reign, the match with Joe (***3/4) and title change with Lethal (****) speak otherwise, at least in my viewing. I've never heard a critique that Jay is a bad worker.JigsawVs.Jason wrote:Oh hell no!!! Those two reigns were terrible in terms of in-ring work. I'd prefer Scurrl, Opsreay or Tanahashi.
Great at the mic, but I never ever want to see a Jay Briscoe singles match in the main event of an ROH show.
"If anyone complains about how today's pro wrestling isn't as good as the past and isn't watching New Japan, their opinions have no validity." ~ Dave Meltzer
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
I can't hold the multi-man 14th anniversary show against him for his particular work. I haven't revisited the brief 2013 defenses. I was focusing more on his second reign, and his growth there as a main event singles.
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
What growth? He had one normal singles match during his reign that was truely great (vs Lethal), the rest was good to mediocre, which is a sad record for a World Champion. Yes, he wasn't injured like he was in 2013, but he failed to deliver great singles matches (the one against Joe was not special either, "merely" good). There is a reason the only good matches he had were gimmick matches.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:I can't hold the multi-man 14th anniversary show against him for his particular work. I haven't revisited the brief 2013 defenses. I was focusing more on his second reign, and his growth there as a main event singles.
"If anyone complains about how today's pro wrestling isn't as good as the past and isn't watching New Japan, their opinions have no validity." ~ Dave Meltzer
Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
Of course a case can be made. Tue Briscoes are the most popular act in the company, they are synonymous with ROH. I will agree a lot of his defenses in standard matches in his two reigns left a lot to be desired but Jay is going to be a lifer in ROH, with things how they are now for the company with so many guys leaving, Jay would be a good choice as champion because he's not going anywhere and he's popular. I don't want to see another three or two time champion anytime soon though.
Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
And the only time stellar matches should be expected are on major shows. Why have a four star match for TV or a lower level VOD show? Keep the world champion in tags or against lesser opponents on those save the blow away matches for PPV.
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
It's not that anyone is saying that Jay is a bad worker. It's just that he's not a world champion caliber worker.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:In his second reign, the match with Joe (***3/4) and title change with Lethal (****) speak otherwise, at least in my viewing. I've never heard a critique that Jay is a bad worker.JigsawVs.Jason wrote:Oh hell no!!! Those two reigns were terrible in terms of in-ring work. I'd prefer Scurrl, Opsreay or Tanahashi.
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
And Jerry Lynn was?Big Red Machine wrote:It's not that anyone is saying that Jay is a bad worker. It's just that he's not a world champion caliber worker.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:In his second reign, the match with Joe (***3/4) and title change with Lethal (****) speak otherwise, at least in my viewing. I've never heard a critique that Jay is a bad worker.JigsawVs.Jason wrote:Oh hell no!!! Those two reigns were terrible in terms of in-ring work. I'd prefer Scurrl, Opsreay or Tanahashi.
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
No he wasn't, that was easily one of the worst booking mistakes ever, without taking anything away from Lynn as a wrestler. But he - like Jay - was not capable of delivering the World Championship mathes ROH fans were used to.Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:And Jerry Lynn was?Big Red Machine wrote:It's not that anyone is saying that Jay is a bad worker. It's just that he's not a world champion caliber worker.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:
In his second reign, the match with Joe (***3/4) and title change with Lethal (****) speak otherwise, at least in my viewing. I've never heard a critique that Jay is a bad worker.
"If anyone complains about how today's pro wrestling isn't as good as the past and isn't watching New Japan, their opinions have no validity." ~ Dave Meltzer
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
No, he wasn't. But you don't hear anyone defending that decision or clamoring for Jerry to be given another title run, either.Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:And Jerry Lynn was?Big Red Machine wrote:It's not that anyone is saying that Jay is a bad worker. It's just that he's not a world champion caliber worker.Jay Lethal's Hair wrote:
In his second reign, the match with Joe (***3/4) and title change with Lethal (****) speak otherwise, at least in my viewing. I've never heard a critique that Jay is a bad worker.
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Re: Can a case be made for a 3rd Jay Briscoe title reign?
Man, nobody is asking for another Jerry Lynn title run because he's retired and Mandy Leon no longer sits next to Cary Silkin at ringside. Otherwise he would still be whispering to her that Lizard Man should throw the title back on Lynn.