NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11 Official Live Thread

[cgstong]

The official forum thread for your viewing of NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11

Check out some notable prediction podcasts & columns

Voices of Wrestling Podcast: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2016/1 ... 1-preview/

Voices of Wrestling Column: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2017/0 ... edictions/

PWPonderings Column: http://www.pwponderings.com/2016/12/29/ ... 1-preview/


Card:
New Japan Rumble
Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Manabu Nakanishi vs. Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Tiger Mask vs. Yuji Nagata vs. surprise entrants

Tiger Mask W vs. Tiger the Dark

Cody (Rhodes) vs. Juice Robinson

IWGP Junior heavyweight tag team championships:
The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson) (c) vs. Roppongi Vice (Beretta & Rocky Romero)

NEVER Openweight 6-Man tag team championships: (Gauntlet match)
David Finlay, Ricochet & Satoshi Kojima (c) vs. Bullet Club (Bad Luck Fale, Hangman Page and Yujiro Takahashi) vs. Chaos (Jado, Will Ospreay & Yoshi-Hashi) vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (Bushi, Evil & Sanada)

Ring of Honor world championship:
Kyle O'Reilly (c) vs. Adam Cole

IWGP Heavyweight tag team championships:
Guerrillas of Destiny (Tama Tonga & Tanga Roa) (c) vs. Chaos (Tomohiro Ishii & Toru Yano) vs. G.B.H. (Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma)

IWGP Junior heavyweight championship:
Kushida (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi

NEVER Openweight championship:
Katsuyori Shibata (c) vs. Hirooki Goto

IWGP Intercontinental championship:
Tetsuya Naito (c) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi

IWGP Heavyweight championship:
Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Kenny Omega

[DXvsNWO1994]

[famicommander]

Roppongi Vice with the win!

Logically, shouldn't they get an ROH World Tag Team title shot now too?

[famicommander]

Adam Cole won the ROH World Championship.

O'Reilly to NXT then?

[Brada]

Wow, I stand corrected. That makes the past number of months completely irrelevant from a booking standpoint. Adios KOR. Adam Cole time again BayBay.

[rovert]

Been the plan since June/July.

[Brada]

Been the plan since June/July.

So, just so I can wrap my head around this. You are saying that the plan was the following...


To spend over a year emphasizing the fact that Kyle O'Reilly somehow gets screwed over and over and over by Adam Cole in Kyle's chase to win the World Title.

Have the payoff to the program be Kyle FINALLY get the win after failed opportunity, after failed opportunity at the company's biggest show of the year, Final Battle.

After Kyle's win, Kyle gives his heartfelt promo talking about what a great champion Cole was. He goes on to say that if his title reign can be half of what Cole's was...yada yada yada.

Kyle says that he will be a fighting champion, accepting challenges from anyone.....yada yada yada.

All that, to go drop the title in his FIRST defense, and on top of that, NOT EVEN ON A RING OF HONOR SHOW. A show that ROH makes ZERO money on. A show that those people in attendance don't give two shits about either guy.

So, again, you are saying the plan was to invest months into all that build up, the big win, to drop the title on someone else's show, in front of a crowd that doesn't care.

So FAR before the contract problems, you are saying THAT was the original plan?

If that IS the case, that is the absolute stupidest effing thing I have EVER seen in pro wrestling. REALLY REALLY STUPID.

[BurningHammer]

Really surprised at the result of the main event, I wonder what this means for peoples futures going forward.

Did NJPW have a hand in the way the title changed hands at this show, or was this decided just within ROH offices. ROH obviously had very little faith in O'Reilly going forward which I can understand, some guys are just like that, the chanse is better for them or the crowning is better for them sometimes it can happen. I thought the same for Elgin the crowning was the achievement rather than him going to make his mark with it. Though I think something fresh for ROH would have been nice, despite how good Cole is I think ROH has needed a new shot in the arm with regards to it's champs.

Overall good show, with some that really delivered, some under for sure a couple of interesting title changes and might change a few peoples directions which will be interesting to see.

[famicommander]

So Bullet Club had a mixed bag of a night:
-Young Bucks lost the IWGP Jr Heavyweight Championship, but remain the ROH World Tag Team Champions
-Bad Luck Fale, Yujiro Takahashi, and Hangman Page failed to win the NEVER Openweight Six Man Tag Team Championship
-Cody Rhodes defeated Juice Robinson
-Adam Cole defeated Kyle O'Reilly to win the ROH World Championship
-Kenny Omega failed to win the IWGP Heavyweight Championship
-The Guerillas of Destiny lost the IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championship

Los Ingobernables de Japon had a perfect night:
-Evil, Bushi, and Sanada won the NEVER Openweight Six Man Tag Team Championship
-Hiromu Takahashi won the IWGP Jr Heavyweight Championship
-Tetsuya Naito retained the IWGP Intercontinental Championship

And Chaos had an overall good night:
-Jado, Yoshi Hashi, and Will Ospreay failed to win the NEVER Openweight Six Man Tag Team Championship
-Hirooki Goto won the NEVER Openweight Championship
-Roppongi Vice won the IWGP Jr Heavyweight Tag Team Championship
-Toru Yano and Tomohiro Ishii won the IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championship
-Kazuchika Okada retained the IWGP Heavyweight Championship

[WHG]

I agree that on the surface the plan seems dumb...but to play the devil's (or in this case, LIzard's) advocate, here are some thoughts on why he may have done this. Not saying I agree with it, but here's some logic to it:

1. He likely promised Kyle the title at contract time last year. Not that it'd be the first time a promotion broke a promise, but this could have been a way to keep the promise without banking on him as the champion.

2. Staring the end of the storyline in the face, they knew Cole was around until April...and knew Kyle's contract was up in December and wasn't a lock. If they book him to just flat out lose at Final Battle, he's killed dead. A total failure. They might as well not bother re-signing him. If Kyle re-signs now, they could go back to Cole vs. O'Reilly in a Ladder War blowoff once and for all.

3. It's kind of old-school. The NWA wanted Ric Flair to be their champion, but knew if the big babyfaces never won it, they'd have no credibility at all. So they have Kerry Von Erich, Dusty, Ron Garvin, etc... win the title and then drop it right back to their guy. This could be an attempt to give Cole a long time with the belt without his reign being completely stale.

4. It's an attempt to establish Cole as an all-time great Champion. Cole was never going to match Joe, Nigel, Bryan, etc... in terms of having an epic reign. The 3x champ thing gives him a cool record. I think they're going to throw the kitchen sink at trying to re-sign him, and they're treating him like their Ric Flair.

5. It's never been done before and makes early-reign title defenses more interesting. One thing about the ROH title is we all know that the first few defenses after a guy wins the title are boring because nobody believes the challenger will win. This sets a precedent that any defense could result in a change.

6. This helps Cole get over in Japan. For as much as nobody cared about Lethal in Japan, KOR is pretty well known and liked due to his strong Jr tag work and the epic BOSJ performance in 2015. Cole beating him for a title on their biggest show gave Cole his best shot at becoming something there. If he's going to be working there more, this may have been as much for Gedo as anything.

7. Changing the ROH title at the Dome is history-making. This is the only time the title has ever changed hands outside the US, and it happened in front of a crowd more than 10x larger than the biggest ROH crowd in history. Think about that. Now...everyone knows it's not going to be as big a "moment" for the guy who wins because the crowd won't care as much and it's a mid-card match, so Cole winning it back is perfect for that scenario. He doesn't need the "crowning moment" on a 3rd win.

8. To the point above, the change may have been done to try to create interest in the ROH title for the Honor Rising shows next month.

So that was 8 reasons I could think of for why they did it. I still don't agree with them and could argue against each one. To me, the biggest reason NOT to do it was that they should have predicted public perception of the move, which was that they were forced to book it this way because they couldn't re-sign O'Reilly. To me, it makes no sense to do plan something 6 months in advance that will clearly look like you didn't plan it at all.

[Brada]

To be clear, if the change was due to being backed into a corner from a contractual stand point, then I get it.

If the idea was to put the strap on KOR, thinking that would satisfy him with his storyline direction complaint, then I'm fine with that too, in terms of the "greater good", I get it.

Not trying to argue with you at all WHG, but I don't think Cole winning it back at the Tokyo Dome in a match that is placed early on the card is "history making" at all. In fact, I think it somewhat is a slap in the face to the entire ROH-NJPW relationship to begin with.

If they did "promise" KOR the title, and waited until Final Battle to give it to him, with no guarantee that he was going to re-sign, well then that is EVEN more effing retarded than having Cole win it back at WK11.

IF that was the case, and you didn't think KOR would re-sign, let Cole go over in some screw job like fashion, or better yet, have him go over clean, proclaim his dominance as ROH champ, then (in true NJPW fashion, since everyone is on their junk these days) give someone else a rub and have a new challenger come out to lay the ground work to challenge Cole. That would have been a great spot for Fish had he not had to miss the show due to a death in his family.

IF the idea was for this to be the plan since the summer as Rovert claims, meaning this was the idea even without contract negotiations being in question, well that is straight up STUPID, IDIOTIC, RIDICULOUS in my opinion. So dumb in fact, that if that was the case, time to clean house from a creative standpoint and hand the reigns over to someone else.

[Brada]

Tons of love on twitter for Okada/Omega.......a few guys calling it the best wrestling match they have ever seen.

I'm definitely going to have to check this show out.

[dhads7161]

Which of these would be better?
Omega booted from BC, Cody becomes leader, Bullet Club chases the titles in possession of CHAOS.
Omega booted from BC, Cody becomes leader, Ibushi saves Omega, Ibushi & Omega vs. Bullet Club feud
Suzukigun returns, begins chasing the titles in possession of CHAOS.

[AlexROH]

I wasnt a fan of this 33 day long reign of Kyle O'Reilly, but every point WHG said make sense to me. Plus, they tried everything they could to force Kyle to resign. What I hate are this last three shitty title changes, ROH World title changes should be awesome marches and moments not a f'n 11 minute cold match in Japan.

WK 11 was cool. The undercard did nothing for me and I was kindda bored. Special mention to Cody, who was awful and sloppy (as always) and proved that he doesnt deserve the push he's getting and also that Juice is a better wrestler than he.

The second half of the show was awesome, with 4 great marches. The Co-ME was an special moment that Naito deserved. Great match, the one with best structure (****1/4). Main event was fucking amazing. An epic 47 minutes battle with the last 20 minutes being awesome. I was at the edge of my seat screaming all the time. But, being honest, the first 15 minutes felt long. There was a lot of time between spots and it looked like they were killing some time. It made sense because they were trying to kill each other, but they could have done it in less time. Still amazing match (****1/2).

[Brada]

Joey Ryan said MOTY has happened already.

Baretta said best match he has ever seen.

Ricochet said best match he has ever seen as well....

I'm stoked to check it out.

[BurningHammer]

Bar the result, the main event was a classic for sure. It felt close to the level that Okada and Tana reached 4 years ago (I believe), although that match for me is as close as you will get to perfect. It's a match that should certainly be looked on as showing that both are "THE' guys in wrestling right now, some of the movements and ability Omega has is unreal, and the fact that he has curbed his selling style has helped him a lot in these matches. Okada is just a master at that final stretch, he just can keep the crowd with him all that way and for so long is amazing.

If we eve get AJ and Omega healthy and both keeping their levels right now it, and with WWE treating it with a serious attitude it could really be something else.

[KL_]

So Kyle O'Reilly becomes the shortest reigning ROH World champion and the only ROH World Champion with 0 successful defenses.

[Brada]

So Kyle O'Reilly becomes the shortest reigning ROH World champion and the only ROH World Champion with 0 successful defenses.

and that was the plan since June/July.................lmao...

[Thelone]

The mere thought of this "being the plan all along" sounds so ludicrously awful that I can't possibly buy it. I can understand the idea of doing the rematch as soon as possible so it's out of the way and we can all move on, but it's not like #TheKyleMan was so hot that you HAD to give him the belt even for a nothing reign.

Frankly, I'd say there's more to this billionth Elgin meltdown than just him bitching about his students not getting booked and lack of communication on ROH's part.

[Brada]

No matter how you slice it, that is ridiculously BAD BUSINESS the whole way around. Borderline embarrassing.