Kyle O'Reilly not signed

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
Post Reply
The Dragon Saga
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 11:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by The Dragon Saga »

Yeah, the "impending doom" was, like most times, nothing. I don't think there's a workplace on earth with 40 employees who are all happy, Ring of Honor can't keep everyone happy, they keep most of them happy and the re-signings are further proof of this.

Adam Cole I would say will actually be more interesting than many will expect. I think there's something going on with him, and yes, I'm referencing the way he looks right now. He had pneumonia in October and he had a couple of undisclosed illnesses during the year. That lump on the side of his head doesn't look too good either and he's not in great shape, he looked much better around the time of Global Wars than he does now.

If WWE has an interest in him as is being said, I've no issue with him leaving because hes done more than everything in ROH and being the first three time ROH World Champion puts him in history as one of the best the promotion has ever had, but I'm going out on a limb here by saying that I don't think things are as straight forward as they might seem to some people.
Image
King of Indy Style
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by King of Indy Style »

Yup. Not shocked at all the 12/31 Doom and Gloom came and went without much incident.
User avatar
Thelone
Posts: 1880
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:27 pm
Location: Liège, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Thelone »

Lethal is a glorified midcarder and nobody gave a fuck about him being a free agent. Fish is 40 and pretty much nothing outside of ROH without O'Reilly. Kyle "The Biggest Choker of All Time" O'Reilly is pretty much worthless after that massive failure of a push so you might as well dump him at this point and let him waste 2-3 years in NXT where he'll be another Crowe or whatever Busick's name is.

THAT SURE SHOWED THEM WHO'S THE BOSS !!!
http://thelone.be/ => My site, which means a bunch of random stuff really.
The Dragon Saga
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 11:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by The Dragon Saga »

Thelone wrote:Lethal is a glorified midcarder and nobody gave a fuck about him being a free agent. Fish is 40 and pretty much nothing outside of ROH without O'Reilly. Kyle "The Biggest Choker of All Time" O'Reilly is pretty much worthless after that massive failure of a push so you might as well dump him at this point and let him waste 2-3 years in NXT where he'll be another Crowe or whatever Busick's name is.

THAT SURE SHOWED THEM WHO'S THE BOSS !!!
This is the most "Thelone" post I've seen in awhile.

Lethal has been probably the most consistent worker, all around, ROH has had in the past three years. He made the TV Championship meaningful, he proved everyone who were the vast majority who said his heel turn wouldn't work out wrong and became the best heel in the promotion, his promos are solid, great delivery and conviction, he comes across like a star, people want to see him and he's nothing but a plus to ROH.

I said Fish wasn't leaving, I knew Fish wasn't leaving, Fish was never leaving. As you said, he's 40-years-old, but fuuuuck me if he's not a great hand for someone of his age. Charismatic, believable, entertaining and is more than capable of taking the reigns should he be needed in any division or any slot in the card. WWE has fucking GQ Money or whatever his name is, teaching promos in the Performance Center, Bobby Fish would have been perfect for that role but again, it's a plus for ROH.

O'Reilly's a great wrestler, is one-half of arguably the most successful ROH made tag team outside of The Briscoes in the past 10 years, worked great as a heel with Fish, worked good as a face and now is obviously not sure about what to do next. If he leaves, he's a loss, but he's not a major loss which is a shame on his part.

The Young Bucks also re-signed, by the way. Re-signing these guys wasn't, "TO SHOW THEM WHO'S BOSS", it was to keep names on the roster they'd invested time into building, you numpty. All we've read on this forum and through "Twitter insiders" for months was that this guy is leaving, that guy is leaving, this persons mother is leaving, when in reality the only people who have actually fully left are Veda freaking Scott and Michael Elgin, the latter of which wasn't being used anyway! Anybody else was let go, Truth Martini, ACH, George Carroll, etc.

There was no "impending doom", there were no "major losses". Michael Elgin isn't a major loss and with all due respect to him, Kyle O'Reilly isn't a major loss either if he does go. Jay Lethal would have been a major loss, if he leaves Adam Cole will be a major loss solely for what he has done and how he's so versatile. It was nothing that came to nothing.
Image
SweetDaddy
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by SweetDaddy »

If Jay Lethal is a glorified midcarder then there isn't a main event hand in all of ROH.

There may very well be a couple main event tag teams (Briscoes, Bucks) but there isn't a better singles wrestler (not just in ring ability) on the roster.

Not even close.
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Big Red Machine »

WHG wrote:Ryan Satin is reporting that Kyle turned down an offer from ROH a few days ago and is going to evaluate all of his options. rovert & George Carroll of all people clarified that ROH is still in play, so "turned down" might be the wrong wording, he just hasn't agreed to the deal and hasn't made any decisions yet.

The article also reports what rovert and the guy that was accused of being rovert had already told us...the plan all along was for KOR to win the title at Final Battle and drop it at the Dome.

To me what is so terrible about that isn't that they didn't see KOR as a guy to carry the title for a long time. Many people (I'm not one of them) say he doesn't have the mic chops to be a World Champion. But...why, why, why do an 18+ month build for a guy who is only going to have 1 title defense? This all started when Kyle took then TV Champion (about to win the World title) to a time limit draw. I think that was May of 2015. If you don't have enough faith to give him a legit reign, don't start down the path.

Looking at all of this, here's how I think they should have booked it:

- Lethal loses to Cabana in Chicago at Global Wars. It would have been a huge moment. Then...Cole is revealed as the new Bullet Club member after the celebration and destroys Cabana and Lethal. Cabana isn't the worker Daniels is...but as a nostalgia title run, I'd have been 10x more down with that than CD winning the title later. This finish also would have turned a non-finish that everyone hated into a great finish with a huge angle afterward.

- Cole beats Cabana for the title at DBD. This would have given Colt a short run. They could've main evented BITW a couple months prior with a Bullet Club vs. ROH (Lethal, Cabana, reDRagon) in Steel Cage Warfare or something like that instead of the Cole/Briscoe retread match that seemed out of place given the BC angle.

- Now Lethal, who pinned Cole in the tag match on PPV, and Cole have a long build to FInal Battle, where Cole beats Lethal.

Now, Cole is the champion heading into 2017 and you see where the contracts shake out. If Kyle re-signs, you now have 3 months to rekindle the Cole feud and have him win the title at the Anniversary Show or SCOH. If not, it gives you 3 months to figure out your next best option (Scurll would be my pick, but everyone's opinion will be different) and build to that.

Timing and contract contingencies are really something that they're going to have to think about in their planning going forward. With the state of the business being what it is, you can't bank on a guy sticking around for 2 years while you build him up, only to have him leave right when you're paying it off.
This would have been much better.
Big Red Machine
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:10 pm

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Big Red Machine »

The Dragon Saga wrote:
Thelone wrote:Lethal is a glorified midcarder and nobody gave a fuck about him being a free agent. Fish is 40 and pretty much nothing outside of ROH without O'Reilly. Kyle "The Biggest Choker of All Time" O'Reilly is pretty much worthless after that massive failure of a push so you might as well dump him at this point and let him waste 2-3 years in NXT where he'll be another Crowe or whatever Busick's name is.

THAT SURE SHOWED THEM WHO'S THE BOSS !!!
This is the most "Thelone" post I've seen in awhile.

Lethal has been probably the most consistent worker, all around, ROH has had in the past three years. He made the TV Championship meaningful, he proved everyone who were the vast majority who said his heel turn wouldn't work out wrong and became the best heel in the promotion, his promos are solid, great delivery and conviction, he comes across like a star, people want to see him and he's nothing but a plus to ROH.

I said Fish wasn't leaving, I knew Fish wasn't leaving, Fish was never leaving. As you said, he's 40-years-old, but fuuuuck me if he's not a great hand for someone of his age. Charismatic, believable, entertaining and is more than capable of taking the reigns should he be needed in any division or any slot in the card. WWE has fucking GQ Money or whatever his name is, teaching promos in the Performance Center, Bobby Fish would have been perfect for that role but again, it's a plus for ROH.

O'Reilly's a great wrestler, is one-half of arguably the most successful ROH made tag team outside of The Briscoes in the past 10 years, worked great as a heel with Fish, worked good as a face and now is obviously not sure about what to do next. If he leaves, he's a loss, but he's not a major loss which is a shame on his part.

The Young Bucks also re-signed, by the way. Re-signing these guys wasn't, "TO SHOW THEM WHO'S BOSS", it was to keep names on the roster they'd invested time into building, you numpty. All we've read on this forum and through "Twitter insiders" for months was that this guy is leaving, that guy is leaving, this persons mother is leaving, when in reality the only people who have actually fully left are Veda freaking Scott and Michael Elgin, the latter of which wasn't being used anyway! Anybody else was let go, Truth Martini, ACH, George Carroll, etc.

There was no "impending doom", there were no "major losses". Michael Elgin isn't a major loss and with all due respect to him, Kyle O'Reilly isn't a major loss either if he does go. Jay Lethal would have been a major loss, if he leaves Adam Cole will be a major loss solely for what he has done and how he's so versatile. It was nothing that came to nothing.
I don't agree with everything you said here (I think Elgin was a bigger loss than people are making him out to be and I think Kyle will be a major loss and I think Lethal has only been in the upper echelon of workers in the company for about twenty months or so), but I definitely agree with your sentiment... which kind of amazes me, considering how opposite our views were a year ago.
The Dragon Saga
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 11:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by The Dragon Saga »

I just don't feel like Michael Elgin, who according to Cagematch, made five ROH appearances this year outside of the ROH/New Japan co-promoted shows, is a big loss to the promotion. His last match at ASE, was good, but he wasn't bringing the same motivation to ROH as he was to New Japan. He was working harder in New Japan because he knew he had to if he wanted to be kept around, while in ROH he was just like, "cool, I get paid and get to have alright matches". If this were the Michael Elgin of 2012 or 2013 we were talking about he'd be a big loss, but in my mind he's a guy who had a chance and dropped the ball. And when he was given the chance I was very vocal about wanting him to succeed.
Image
Mr. Mojo Risin
Posts: 2400
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:37 am
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

The Dragon Saga wrote:I just don't feel like Michael Elgin, who according to Cagematch, made five ROH appearances this year outside of the ROH/New Japan co-promoted shows, is a big loss to the promotion. His last match at ASE, was good, but he wasn't bringing the same motivation to ROH as he was to New Japan. He was working harder in New Japan because he knew he had to if he wanted to be kept around, while in ROH he was just like, "cool, I get paid and get to have alright matches". If this were the Michael Elgin of 2012 or 2013 we were talking about he'd be a big loss, but in my mind he's a guy who had a chance and dropped the ball. And when he was given the chance I was very vocal about wanting him to succeed.
I agree with this assessment. Elgin has been going through the motions in his ROH matches. His appearances have done nothing to add any value whatsoever. If you want a stronger in ring product losing Elgin doesn't mean shit.
WHG
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:46 am

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by WHG »

The 5 appearances thing is actually misleading, too, as 3 of those were on the first tour of the year prior to his first NJPW tour of the year following the Dome show. After that, he made just 2 appearances in ROH outside of the joint shows the whole rest of the year.

It sounds like Elgin was frustrated that they weren't signing all of his students and so he used a lack of responsiveness on a possible January date to make a public scene about nothing. Fuck him.

If O'Reilly ends up leaving, he's a loss for sure...but nothing even approaching the scale of what some predicted.
rovert
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:12 pm

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by rovert »

People are doing the TNAMecca thing of spinning every loss as no big loss then.
Montana
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:53 am

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Montana »

Disappointing to see this situation with o reily. If he was planning on weighing his options prior to final battle he should have never wanted to win. Kind of a class-less move, but i don't know all the details. Maybe reily was up front with it, and ROH went ahead anyway. Either way, hope reily figures out what he wants to do. If he think TNA is th answer, more power to him. Sounds like wwe is making low ball offers. Surely his stock would rise after a title run. Guess we'll just have to wait.
WHG
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:46 am

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by WHG »

rovert wrote:People are doing the TNAMecca thing of spinning every loss as no big loss then.
I think the point was that Elgin wasn't an ROH talent to begin with last year. The "loss" on him was the prior year.

I don't think anyone's spinning O'Reilly as no big loss. But consider the context. If at the middle of the year, when half of Twitter (yourself included) was saying that everyone was leaving 12/31, had we known that 5 of the 6 people being pointed to as expiring would still be working for the company as of WM weekend, the hype would've seemed kind of silly.

In the Summer, PWTorch pointed to the following contracts as expiring at the end of the year:

- Adam Cole
- Jay Lethal
- Nick Jackson
- Matt Jackson
- Kyle O'Reilly
- Bobby Fish

4 of the 6 have re-signed, including 3 for 2 years. Cole's contract wasn't really up...which Meltzer had long before that reported.

So it's not a TNA Mecca thing of saying that the loss isn't big, but more of a feeling of it's nothing that you wouldn't expect in any era of any wrestling company where people occasionally leave when their contracts expire.

Note: I'll grant you that anyone expressing any anger toward O'Reilly for leaving are being a bit Mecca-ish.
User avatar
Wilson
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:05 am
Location: US Northeast

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Wilson »

rovert wrote:People are doing the TNAMecca thing of spinning every loss as no big loss then.
Let’s be better than to use “TNA Mecca” as a byword for circuitous grounding by dint of denial. It’s cheap heat.

ROH was a company that expected its stars to develop and become too large for the product, and often this cycle benefitted the product. The company is much now much different and this cycle has obviously slowed down. The potential losses of O’Reilly and Cole would be pretty influential, in that they have shared the most pivotal story arc in the past 18 months, have main evented the biggest show of the year, have yet to put upcoming talents over, and have arguably weakened the World Title in their exchanges.

Sometimes it’s creatively beneficial to be backed into a corner, but I don’t think the creative staff can get themselves out in any organized fashion. If the story of Cole/O’Reilly was designed to resemble this narrative all along, then I’m sure we can expect more troughs than crests this year. Even if it were only slightly possible for Cole and O’Reilly to exit after the termination of their contracts, the booker should have an immediate sense to build the product’s next keystone talent, and Daniels is really, really not that. Creative’s incapacities leave me much more in the direction of no confidence rather than some of its stars leaving. Their philosophies on the functions of top talent and the top title are completely disenfranchising.

If anything is beginning to resemble TNA, it’s the product, more and more at each story beat and business responsibility.
JTCole
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:52 pm

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by JTCole »

Daniels absolutely deserves an ROH title run this year. Who cares how old he is, he's still one of their top talents and can still go at a high level in the ring.

He doesn't have to hold it long, they just need to build someone up to beat him at Final Battle or sooner.
BurningHammer
Posts: 2160
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:58 am

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by BurningHammer »

Loosing Kyle is obviously a loss, I don't think you can get away from that but much like Elgin I think there are guys but I out there that you could build or give the spot to who would be able to achieve just as much if not more. I don't think Elgin had a major impact on the drawing power of ROH and I think the same about Kyle, maybe I'm wrong, but I can see the likes of Ospreay and Marty making and creating bigger crowds in the end than say Kyle.
The Dragon Saga
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 11:06 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by The Dragon Saga »

rovert wrote:People are doing the TNAMecca thing of spinning every loss as no big loss then.
Two full-time guys, a woman who has managed like 8 different people and someone who barely appears.

O'Reilly is a loss, Ray Rowe and War Machine are a loss, but compared to the "devastation" that yourself and others prophesized was no more than a couple of scratches to the face which will heal in a matter of weeks.

Hyperbole in wrestling "media" or "insiders" is why many fall on their faces more often than not.
Image
User avatar
cgstong
Admin
Admin
Posts: 1006
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:00 am
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by cgstong »

WHG wrote:
It sounds like Elgin was frustrated that they weren't signing all of his students and so he used a lack of responsiveness on a possible January date to make a public scene about nothing. Fuck him.
It sadly wasn't just his students. He was suggesting guys like Jason Kincaid to ROH to use more and they didn't listen and at one point apparently stopped communicating with him altogether. I can understand the sentiment if it was just his students, but it wasn't.
If you're having any issues with the forum tweet at me Twitter.com/ROH_World
or Fb.com/ROHworld
Seosi
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:51 pm

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Seosi »

Seosi wrote:Well, he is the ROH champion, so I would like to assume that they do have some sort of deal.
Image
@seositw
User avatar
Brada
Posts: 1175
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:05 am
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth, Texas
Contact:

Re: Kyle O'Reilly not signed

Post by Brada »

Thelone wrote:Lethal is a glorified midcarder and nobody gave a fuck about him being a free agent. Fish is 40 and pretty much nothing outside of ROH without O'Reilly. Kyle "The Biggest Choker of All Time" O'Reilly is pretty much worthless after that massive failure of a push so you might as well dump him at this point and let him waste 2-3 years in NXT where he'll be another Crowe or whatever Busick's name is.

THAT SURE SHOWED THEM WHO'S THE BOSS !!!
Not even going to try to attempt to debate with you on your opinion of these guys. Just a question. Since the guys you question take up so much of the ROH air time, and are so heavily involved in the product, combined with the fact that you don't care for any of them, my question is, why do you watch then?
Post Reply