Kyle O'Reilly not signed

[TYFDK]

Castle is nowhere near ready to being champ BTW, but Tanahashi would be awesome.

It would be, but I don't think Gedo is hip on having one of his contracted guys being booked as a champ in other promotion. Unless he calls the booking on Tana as champ which I would be fine with.

Eh I think he's cool with it. Isn't Shibata the champ in RevPro?

[King of Indy Style]

I think Castle should get the TV Title before he's even considered for World Champion. And I think I'd rather see Shibata as World Champion than Tanahashi. You could book Shibata as a merciless man that beats the living shit out of people, and have him go on a tear. Then whoever beats him would get the rub from beating such a brutal champion.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Castle is nowhere near ready to being champ BTW, but Tanahashi would be awesome.

It would be, but I don't think Gedo is hip on having one of his contracted guys being booked as a champ in other promotion. Unless he calls the booking on Tana as champ which I would be fine with.

Eh I think he's cool with it. Isn't Shibata the champ in RevPro?

As much as I like Shibata, he isn't in the same league as Tanahashi.

[WHG]

The point about Strong beating Briscoe was interesting. It's been kind of commonplace for ROH to book guys really strong or give them a big win at contract time, probably to try to show them they have big plans. That's probably why Fish won SOTF and is the reason they didn't change plans on Kyle when he hadn't renewed yet.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

The point about Strong beating Briscoe was interesting. It's been kind of commonplace for ROH to book guys really strong or give them a big win at contract time, probably to try to show them they have big plans. That's probably why Fish won SOTF and is the reason they didn't change plans on Kyle when he hadn't renewed yet.

Yeah, this was no more prevalent in 2007 when Gabe had Samoa Joe fucking steamrolling over everyone on his way out the door. Nigel and Morishima were victims to this bullshit when they could've used the rub.

[rovert]

Castle is nowhere near ready to being champ BTW, but Tanahashi would be awesome.

What do people think Decade of Excellence is attempting achieve?

[BurningHammer]

If Kyle is leaving for the WWE to me that's one of the strangest signings I think i've seen that company make and I would have thought Kyle would have a much more realistic head on his shoulders, but I guess things will be fresh and exciting there but I do find it hard to believe success is in his future there.

It really isn't though. Someone pointed out a few weeks ago that Strong also got a completely random win over Jay Briscoe a couple of matches before leaving, and same thing with Moose getting three big matches against New Japan stars during the joint shows.

I was thinking more of how Kyle's style, ring work, ability on the mic as well as his look just don't fit anything that WWE really want's or believes in. Kyle is going to have to change a lot and learn a lot to fit in within the WWE environment, if he is ok with that then that's great, I just would have thought being a star in Japan would be a more natural fit for him and his style.

[BurningHammer]

It will be interesting to see how he works out their regardless.

[BurningHammer]

Castle is nowhere near ready to being champ BTW, but Tanahashi would be awesome.

What do people think Decade of Excellence is attempting achieve?

To make Daniels champ and honestly if it's a short reign I don't see it as a major problem, Daniels deserves one last hurrah and to win the "big one", ROH doing stuff like this is fine, you are just paying homage to legacy and stature and wrestling should still have that.

[cgstong]

Castle is nowhere near ready to being champ BTW, but Tanahashi would be awesome.

What do people think Decade of Excellence is attempting achieve?

To make Daniels champ and honestly if it's a short reign I don't see it as a major problem, Daniels deserves one last hurrah and to win the "big one", ROH doing stuff like this is fine, you are just paying homage to legacy and stature and wrestling should still have that.

Agreed. Again, why I find it more fitting for an event where there will be buzz but that's just me. Moving it up the time table is what it is IF they are doing it.

[Big Red Machine]

As a quick caveat I've been following ROH since 2002 so I'm not saying anniversary shows aren't important or fun but in terms of significance, the two PPV versions just weren't promoted well and seemed more like transition shows rather than tent pole event.

None of the PPVs are promoted particularly well. I have no idea why in 2017 ROH this would serve any sort of relevance at all.

Agreed and that's why it makes less sense to me given that having a marked event such as Daniels possibly winning the Title should be at an event people will actually buzz about whereas if we go with the idea it will be on the PPV, how many buys will it equal? Sure, some buys will occur after people have read about it.

Also I realize it's not fair of me given we haven't seen how it's going to be pushed ETC. So while I get what you're saying in terms of relevance, it doesn't prohibit me from expecting more from them. Tempered expectations for sure, but doesn't mean I will accept mediocrity.

You don't think there isn't that extra little bit of magic in Christopher Daniels- the man who became the company's first heel in the main event of the first show- winning (or at least challenging for) the world title as a babyface on the Fifteenth Anniversary Show? I definitely think there is extra magic there that would be lost if they did it at SCOH. Also, hopefully with Hardys vs. Bucks, they shouldn't have any trouble moving tickets for SCOH, but they might have some with PPV buys for the Anniversary Show (which I really wish could be in Philly).

[Big Red Machine]

The point about Strong beating Briscoe was interesting. It's been kind of commonplace for ROH to book guys really strong or give them a big win at contract time, probably to try to show them they have big plans. That's probably why Fish won SOTF and is the reason they didn't change plans on Kyle when he hadn't renewed yet.

Yeah, this was no more prevalent in 2007 when Gabe had Samoa Joe fucking steamrolling over everyone on his way out the door. Nigel and Morishima were victims to this bullshit when they could've used the rub.

Joe definitely shouldn't have beaten Morishima in NYC, but I had no problem with the way Nigel was booked against Joe. I thought having him beat Joe in Chicago and then go back and lose in the UK was slightly clever because having Nigel win the UK would have felt more like throwing a bone to the UK fans than Nigel really getting the big win, and I thought the way they worked they Liverpool match did a fantastic job of getting Nigel over as being just as tough as Joe while still letting Joe win. That being said, I obviously acknowledge that there was no real reason for Joe to get the win back, but with the way ROH was at the time (and on some levels still should be), having an awesome main event match against Joe where yo come up short after you have already beaten him was just as good as getting a win over someone else (especially when you look at who Nigel and Joe could have been paired against on that show).

[leenie426]

I have said before that I don't see it for a number of reasons. They wouldn't spend months commutes to a storyline to just end it with the champion dropping it on another promotions show. Just don't see it happening.[/quote]


O'Reilly is losing the belt at Wrestle Kingdom. No contract with ROH has been signed in the last two days. Cole becomes 1st three time champion.[/quote]


I'm still willing to wager on that.[/quote]


Good thing you didn't wager anything

[Brada]

Would have been bad for sure. Still shocks me.

[SweetDaddy]

O'Reilly is a good hand and one half of an elite tag team but he couldn't draw flies in a shithouse and has no business as a singles champion. Would I prefer ROH keep him? Of course but it's not even as much of a loss as Strong Rod was.

[WHG]

Ryan Satin is reporting that Kyle turned down an offer from ROH a few days ago and is going to evaluate all of his options. rovert & George Carroll of all people clarified that ROH is still in play, so "turned down" might be the wrong wording, he just hasn't agreed to the deal and hasn't made any decisions yet.

The article also reports what rovert and the guy that was accused of being rovert had already told us...the plan all along was for KOR to win the title at Final Battle and drop it at the Dome.

To me what is so terrible about that isn't that they didn't see KOR as a guy to carry the title for a long time. Many people (I'm not one of them) say he doesn't have the mic chops to be a World Champion. But...why, why, why do an 18+ month build for a guy who is only going to have 1 title defense? This all started when Kyle took then TV Champion (about to win the World title) to a time limit draw. I think that was May of 2015. If you don't have enough faith to give him a legit reign, don't start down the path.

Looking at all of this, here's how I think they should have booked it:

- Lethal loses to Cabana in Chicago at Global Wars. It would have been a huge moment. Then...Cole is revealed as the new Bullet Club member after the celebration and destroys Cabana and Lethal. Cabana isn't the worker Daniels is...but as a nostalgia title run, I'd have been 10x more down with that than CD winning the title later. This finish also would have turned a non-finish that everyone hated into a great finish with a huge angle afterward.

- Cole beats Cabana for the title at DBD. This would have given Colt a short run. They could've main evented BITW a couple months prior with a Bullet Club vs. ROH (Lethal, Cabana, reDRagon) in Steel Cage Warfare or something like that instead of the Cole/Briscoe retread match that seemed out of place given the BC angle.

- Now Lethal, who pinned Cole in the tag match on PPV, and Cole have a long build to FInal Battle, where Cole beats Lethal.

Now, Cole is the champion heading into 2017 and you see where the contracts shake out. If Kyle re-signs, you now have 3 months to rekindle the Cole feud and have him win the title at the Anniversary Show or SCOH. If not, it gives you 3 months to figure out your next best option (Scurll would be my pick, but everyone's opinion will be different) and build to that.

Timing and contract contingencies are really something that they're going to have to think about in their planning going forward. With the state of the business being what it is, you can't bank on a guy sticking around for 2 years while you build him up, only to have him leave right when you're paying it off.

[cgstong]

Not entirely sure they felt they were going to lose him. But it is what it is. Though it says the plan all along was for him to lose it, it was not the plan going into the storyline.

[WHG]

To me the biggest crime would be if a World Title run would've given O'Reilly incentive to stay...or if he is viewing this (as is likely) as one of the reasons to leave.

Pretty tough to believe that booking was a reason he'd leave when they just put the title on him...but now it's pretty hard to argue that he's been the victim of some botched booking.

[christopherclinton55]

I really hope O'Reilly stays

[Roque11]

Ryan Satin is reporting that Kyle turned down an offer from ROH a few days ago and is going to evaluate all of his options. rovert & George Carroll of all people clarified that ROH is still in play, so "turned down" might be the wrong wording, he just hasn't agreed to the deal and hasn't made any decisions yet.

The article also reports what rovert and the guy that was accused of being rovert had already told us...the plan all along was for KOR to win the title at Final Battle and drop it at the Dome.

To me what is so terrible about that isn't that they didn't see KOR as a guy to carry the title for a long time. Many people (I'm not one of them) say he doesn't have the mic chops to be a World Champion. But...why, why, why do an 18+ month build for a guy who is only going to have 1 title defense? This all started when Kyle took then TV Champion (about to win the World title) to a time limit draw. I think that was May of 2015. If you don't have enough faith to give him a legit reign, don't start down the path.

Looking at all of this, here's how I think they should have booked it:

- Lethal loses to Cabana in Chicago at Global Wars. It would have been a huge moment. Then...Cole is revealed as the new Bullet Club member after the celebration and destroys Cabana and Lethal. Cabana isn't the worker Daniels is...but as a nostalgia title run, I'd have been 10x more down with that than CD winning the title later. This finish also would have turned a non-finish that everyone hated into a great finish with a huge angle afterward.

- Cole beats Cabana for the title at DBD. This would have given Colt a short run. They could've main evented BITW a couple months prior with a Bullet Club vs. ROH (Lethal, Cabana, reDRagon) in Steel Cage Warfare or something like that instead of the Cole/Briscoe retread match that seemed out of place given the BC angle.

- Now Lethal, who pinned Cole in the tag match on PPV, and Cole have a long build to FInal Battle, where Cole beats Lethal.

Now, Cole is the champion heading into 2017 and you see where the contracts shake out. If Kyle re-signs, you now have 3 months to rekindle the Cole feud and have him win the title at the Anniversary Show or SCOH. If not, it gives you 3 months to figure out your next best option (Scurll would be my pick, but everyone's opinion will be different) and build to that.

Timing and contract contingencies are really something that they're going to have to think about in their planning going forward. With the state of the business being what it is, you can't bank on a guy sticking around for 2 years while you build him up, only to have him leave right when you're paying it off.

So after all this time of cryptic hints of impending doom once 12/31 came the outcome is most of these names have already re-signed and Kyle, with whom there were deeper hints with in recent weeks, doing the exact same thing he's done the past two times when it comes time to renegotiate. HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

I don't think there's anything definite with Cole despite what is being said. People are acting like he's already signed with WWE when still has four months left on his deal. Who knows what ROH will throw at him.

Aso for the world title picture and the creative roles involving Cole and Kyle coming out of all this, I say let it play out. Wait and see what ROH direction has planned for everyone involved.