The Shows Need to be Longer (Yes, Really)

[Big Red Machine]

I'm not suggesting a return to everything being a 3 1/2+ hour marathon the way it often felt like it was in the Gabe Era, but I do think that the current formula of shooting for 2:20-2:45 isn't giving the matches enough time to live up to their potential, and as a result ROH is not creating any buzz and talent aren't being given the time necessary to really break out. I firmly believe that in a company like ROH, if you want to create a push that feels like it is coming organically from the people as much as it is from the booking, a wrestler has to start putting on stand-out matches before the push really starts so that the people want to see him get pushed by the time the push comes. I think this is what has hindered guys like Dijak and will probably also hurt the likes of Gresham and Rush as well. To give these guys the chance they need to "earn" their push in the fans eyes, ROH needs to give them more time without also reducing the time the big names get, and that means longer shows.

Also, the fairly large roster Delirious seems to like to have means more matches on the show, so a longer show gives each match more time.

I think the place ROH has been hurt most by this is on PPV. With the changeover of all of the big shows being traditional PPV, ROH has now become stuck with just a three-hour window for their biggest shows, when they need to be blowing people away. If I were ROH I would try to get a 3 1/2 hour block for my PPVs to give each match more time to deliver (especially the main events) (and if the PPV company doesn't sell 3 1/2 hour blocks I'd go up to 4 like GFW got for last year's Tokyo Dome. I wouldn't necessarily have the show go the full four hours, but with Delirious' style of booking, three has repeatedly proven itself to not be long enough).

[Wilson]

Only reading the title, I thought you were about to launch into a manifesto for a longer ROH on SBG program, which I might have agreed with. (Some weeks it’s obvious that they needed about ten more minutes and other weeks I think they should have their TV rights revoked).

Generally, I agree with you. It’s been a big problem ever since the emphasis of branded tour shows. While having the talent make themselves get over in-ring has worked in praxis, I really have doubts that the company finds VODs to be at all vital. There are the odd events that seem to be more consequential than others, however that is not their normal stratagem. The product relies on the weekly shows to get talent over, or for over talent to make the show feel bigger. As confusing as that might seem, especially to those that are attentive to the program, it seems to be their principal theory.

However, I agree wholeheartedly that the current PPV model is messy, though I would push that it’s nearly dangerous. The timing of the build, the amount of time granted to each match, and the availability ROH/NJPW talent make each PPV so difficult to pull off when each event must excel to be at a $35 value. I don’t know how long they can keep it up.

[Big Red Machine]

I hadn't even considered making the TV show longer. Now that I think about it, it might be good to bump the TV show up to two hours (like most "big league" wrestling shows have been for the past two decades), cutting down to two episodes per tapings, and increasing the number of tapings as opposed to DVD/VOD shows to make up for this (which would also eliminate the problem of having some house shows that feel like they serve no purpose other than to have a show, which has been an issue for the past year or two).

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Totally agree with both points. Gabe allowed guys to sink or swim. Yes the shows were longer, however, talent was able to prosper and get themselves over. This is just not a Delirious issue. It manifested itself to the forefront when Cornette was in charge. You can even argue the roots of it can be traced to when Pearce had the book and he stonewalled the Tyler Black title change from happening when it should have. My point is I think longer shows can benefit 2 guys in particular: Dalton Castle and Dijak. Both have shown improvement but I think the benefit of a longer show then enables them to have a longer platform out there. I mean adding even 5 more minutes for a match length can do so much with crowd psychology and calling a match.

[McXal]

I couldn't agree more strongly with this - and have been calling for exactly this for a while over on my review site.

Like everyone else I'm not saying we need go back to Gabe-esque 3-4 hour shows (although I'd be ok with that) but the shows are so perfunctory and cold now.

Giving key matches a few strategic extra minutes to breathe here and there, plus a few backstage interviews or segments occasionally, wouldn't need to add hours to show run-times, but would really enhance the VOD/DVD release shows in my opinion.

[BigTChamp]

I think 3 full hours including intermission is a good length for a show, going up to 3 1/2 for a card with multiple matches that could benefit from going long

[Big Red Machine]

Totally agree with both points. Gabe allowed guys to sink or swim. Yes the shows were longer, however, talent was able to prosper and get themselves over. This is just not a Delirious issue. It manifested itself to the forefront when Cornette was in charge. You can even argue the roots of it can be traced to when Pearce had the book and he stonewalled the Tyler Black title change from happening when it should have. My point is I think longer shows can benefit 2 guys in particular: Dalton Castle and Dijak. Both have shown improvement but I think the benefit of a longer show then enables them to have a longer platform out there. I mean adding even 5 more minutes for a match length can do so much with crowd psychology and calling a match.

I know that Pearce said that making the shows a bit shorter when he got the book was a Cary directive, but even when Pearce had the book a show that went 2:45 still felt short. I don't know if the Tyler was a result of this so much as it was a result of Pearce thinking a Lynn run would help business and then booking Aries for a strong heel run for Tyler to take the belt off of because Pearce himself has almost always been a heel and he knows how to keep a heel strong better than a babyface.
I think the point that the shows became too short was more under Cornette than it was under Pearce or Delirious' first run, but I think that was more of a case of Cornette not letting matches that weren't the main event deliver because in his mind it wasn't the place of any other match to deliver and he thought it would kill the crowds. The shows we have now are a different kind of short. This is more like everyone gets the same 12-14 minutes instead of ramping up slowly like Cornette would. Things also started to really change for the shorter in the past year or so, at the same time they started running random shows with no real plan other than "have matches" and relying heavily on Young Bucks spotfest main events instead of main events that feel like they have a purpose.

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Only reading the title, I thought you were about to launch into a manifesto for a longer ROH on SBG program, which I might have agreed with. (Some weeks it’s obvious that they needed about ten more minutes and other weeks I think they should have their TV rights revoked).

Generally, I agree with you. It’s been a big problem ever since the emphasis of branded tour shows. While having the talent make themselves get over in-ring has worked in praxis, I really have doubts that the company finds VODs to be at all vital. There are the odd events that seem to be more consequential than others, however that is not their normal stratagem. The product relies on the weekly shows to get talent over, or for over talent to make the show feel bigger. As confusing as that might seem, especially to those that are attentive to the program, it seems to be their principal theory.

However, I agree wholeheartedly that the current PPV model is messy, though I would push that it’s nearly dangerous. The timing of the build, the amount of time granted to each match, and the availability ROH/NJPW talent make each PPV so difficult to pull off when each event must excel to be at a $35 value. I don’t know how long they can keep it up.

two hours is probably too many though. 90 minutes might be the sweet spot for the SBG TV

[JigsawVs.Jason]

I couldn't agree more, this is the biggest problem of the product right now in my opinion. Just take Final Battle as an example. Great show, but it could have been even better if matches like the 4-Way and the main event would have been given more time. 11 minutes for the match I was most looking forward to is ridiculous, to be quite honest. Also there is no reason at all, why Young/Liger or Cabana/Castle had to go longer than 10 minutes.
I always get the impression that ROH wants to give all the wrestlers - at PPVs in particular - enough time to deliver a good match, but not enough time to really steal the show. Hence why all of the matches are usually between 10 and 15 minutes long. In my opinion, that is not enough time to really put out a classic match that will have everybody talking and raving about a match.