Stuff that annoys you

[Jack]

Sorry to start a negative topic as there is enough of that online but i want to hear from you all what in ROH really gets you worked up? Is it the lack of psychology from certain workers, poor booking and story lines or just Kevin Kelly providing pointless info about how wrestlers that never seem to interact in the ring or on screen seem to train together and are best friends?

OK mine is about consistency; Punishment Martinez OK he's playing this evil/mystical character but he wears a crucifix necklace and I know its a silly thing to notice but it really takes me out of this semi supernatural character that they hint about occult links via Sullivan's promos. Also I'm not really a fan of the Corino/Sullivan angle too much cryptic mumbo jumbo and I'm actually into weird occult/esoteric stuff as look at Tommy End he balances its pretty well. Also sort out that shit face paint, the stigmata style bloody tears just looks a mess.

Second point on consistency is Silas Young and the plunge move he does; this is not at all in line with his character, he should be just rough housing guys and not doing anything flash like that, as far as he should go with a top rope move is a big elbow. He should embrace the rumor he was related to Stan Hansen and just got for a lariat as his main finisher, not need to state it just dance around this idea.

Over to you ROH World!

[supersonic]

Supposed smarks/authorities on the business that clearly don't have a finger on the pulse, and when challenged to substantially defend their stances, choose to insult and isolate.

Tag legality inconsistencies - these could actually make for great "controversial" stories if they were enforced. When the rare opportunity would come that an official failed to enforce them, then it becomes a heated reason for a rematch, just like NFL officiating in recent years.

Contrarian carnies on Twitter such as numerous TNA branded individuals.

Chronically thin-skinned vanity searchers

[monster mafia]

Supersonic.

[dhads7161]

So this is kind of "The List of ROH World"?
-I find it annoying that the Taven vs. Cole id Twerner vs. Tweener. Delirious, make up your mind and choose a heel and choose a babyface.
-Delirious
-1980s Kevin Sullivan Satan sstorylines
-Steve Corino
-Kevin Kelly
-Hoss Division
-6 Man tag team division

[leenie426]

Delirious - his dream (or lack of) match booking. Directionless matches and his refusal to give up on the Women of Honor concept. Maybe his boo thing Mandy Leon will leave him if he doesn't build an entire division around her.

Sinclair- 5 years into ROH and Sinclair still won't spend the money to make ROH look as good as NXT. I think its safe to agree that all of us never expect it to look like WWE by my god could we please see the wrestlers when they come down the aisle way and could we get an announce desk that doesn't look like it has a couple table cloths from the party center on it.

Hoss Division - be original, I am pretty sure that beyond came up with this idea --- not saying its a good one either.

Can't wait til Lagana comes in and we start getting Russo-esque storylines and a heel Office Boy on tv every week.

[famicommander]

This is more of an NJPW criticism, but there are way too many "near count out" fake outs. It happens in nearly every match.

[BurningHammer]

Corino, please let the rumors be true the less we here his Commentary on all levels the better, just needs to gone his sycophantic screams of Superkick, his vulgar and quite often racist overtones, his lack of actually being able to call the action, spell names etc and other forgettable things. It's beyond what I'm willing to take now and that's without taking the time of others on screen during this silly feud with BJ.

Kevin Kelly saying ooo to move that's meant to devastating he has been better recently, but jeeze it's like your dad commentating out there at times. Although I would happily have him and Recobanni as the team going forward.

BJ, although he actually get's a reaction there are better talents out there to actually make ROH worth watching as much as I do.

Production values on some levels just needs to improve although I understand budget restrictions.

Website care, the thing is just a mess technically even more so than ever, they really need someone that knows what they are doing.

Booking like the beginning to middle of 2016 please just let this never happen again.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Corino and Kelly.
Corino/Sullivan/Whitmer.
Jonathan Gresham not being locked up to a contract.
Naito still hasn't physically assaulted Todd Sinclair.

[KL_]

6 Man tag team title is a really bad thing. It makes too many champions for too thin roster. When there are too many titles, the fact of being a champion is not that special. It's like "let's give titles to everyone, because everyone are so great"

The path of Kyle O'Reilly. He's chasing for the title for a very long time. We remember last year All Star Extravaganza ending, then at the anniversary show Cole, not him, was pinned, then at Supercard of Honor Kyle beat Cole...... and then we have this "one year in a making" rematch between Lethal and Briscoe (who doesn't have any big win in 2016), where you know there was absolutely no chance Lethal would lose the title. Kyle meanwhile clearly lost to Naito and got ROH World title match for the 20th time on TV taping, only to create the way to make it 21st.


And of course too many times NJPW wrestler beat ROH wrestlers in the ROH ring. They win.... and then what ?
I'm glad Lethal won over Naito at All Star Extravaganza

I really don't like Kevin Kelly as a commentator. But of course I respect all his work for Ring of Honor.

[Big Red Machine]

- Kelly and Corino's awful commentary
- Delirous' lack of direction in the booking and/or constantly going with the "safe" choice of giving the win to the most over babyface in the match no matter who actually needs the win.
- Lack of credible heels (i.e. heels getting clean wins)
- General lack of clean finishes even in places where they make perfect sense, and a general lack of follow-up to dirty finishes
- The six-man tag titles are just an awful idea. Too many champions for a roster this size... and the roster itself needs to get smaller
- No effort being put into building up challengers for non-PPV shows
- Lack of announcing matches for house shows far enough in advance and way too many bait-and-switches for no reason. SOTF weekend was a perfect example of this. There was no reason that Lee & Taylor vs. War Machine blow-off couldn't have been announced three weeks in advance, and no reason that the scheduled War Machine vs. Briscoes match from night 1 needed to be changed to have Lee and Taylor added. If you want to do a three-way, just announce it as one from the beginning. Same thing with the Addiction's tag title shot at GBH
- Poor time management on both the TV and PPVs
- Lack of tying up loose ends. Both reDRagon and War Machine were supposed to get a tag title shot on TV in July but the match never took place because both teams were attacked backstage. Well now here we are four months and fourteen ROH events later and STILL neither team has gotten a title shot. There are many other examples of this as well.
- The Kevin Sullivan bullsh*t. How could anyone possibly think this sort of moronic cartoony crap belongs in ROH?
- WAY too much comedy, and particularly in places where it isn't appropriate (Fish and Dalton in the f*cking SOTF finals!)
- Generic house shows with generic names, that are either irrelevant to storylines or complete relevant but don't receive enough coverage on TV for it.
- General lack of wins and losses meaning anything/being used to build contenders
- Not enough backstage promos that help move the story along/add more detail to the stories
- Overall storylines not supported by the details of the booking

Spoiler: show

Dalton and Cabana are a fine example of this. If the angle is that Colt thinks they are losing because Dalton isn't serious enough, we should be seeing Colt win matches cleanly. Otherwise Colt just becomes yet another lying heel.

[The Dragon Saga]

Sinclair- 5 years into ROH and Sinclair still won't spend the money to make ROH look as good as NXT.

Yes, because I certainly do recall that big ass lighting rig, the LED boards, the titantrons, professionally done match graphics, professionally done in-house hype videos and more being done before Sinclair took over. Great post.

[Big Red Machine]

Sinclair- 5 years into ROH and Sinclair still won't spend the money to make ROH look as good as NXT.

Yes, because I certainly do recall that big ass lighting rig, the LED boards, the titantrons, professionally done match graphics, professionally done in-house hype videos and more being done before Sinclair took over. Great post.

Granted, I have never been someone who cared that much about the show having a fancy look, but I really don't know what else people want. The "lighting" will never be what WWE or TNA have because ROH makes the conscious decision to turn the lights off during the matches so that all of the attention is focused on the match, which is where it should be. Therefore it will never be as bright as WWE or TNA, but so long as you can see the action fine (which I have never had a problem doing) then I don't understand what people are complaining about.

[Big Red Machine]

Also, this whole concept of a "TV Champion." I didn't grow up during the territorial days, but from what I understand, the idea was that you had this title because the top champion rarely wrestled competitive matches on TV. Nowadays that is obviously not the case, so what is the point of having a "TV Champion." And I hate it when the announcers say "it means he's the best wrestler on television." No he's not. The ROH World Champion is because being the ROH World Champion means you are the best there is, period. Why didn't they just call this belt something less silly? Even the "Honor Heritage Title" would have been better.

[Brada]

The different time limits on matches that aren't the main event.

Meaning first match, person A against person B, with a 10 minute time limit

Then the following match, person C against person D, with a 20 minute time limit...

We all know that neither one is going to a draw....

[Big Red Machine]

The different time limits on matches that aren't the main event.

Meaning first match, person A against person B, with a 10 minute time limit

Then the following match, person C against person D, with a 20 minute time limit...

We all know that neither one is going to a draw....

I'd actually like to see more draws. They are a fantastic booking tool that has been completely underutilized in ROH over the past few years.

[jordidebaas]

Well, if you ever do time limit draws, you should have one for every match. But if your point is that they're too inconsistent with them, then I agree. For example, according to their own site, the time limit for the TV title is 15 minutes, but at some point, they randomly changed that to 30, without ever announcing it, and then ACH and Lethal randomly did a 30 minute draw, while they had never said the time limit was now 30 minutes. Also, they should announce how much time is remaining when they come close to the limit.

[Wilson]

Also, this whole concept of a "TV Champion." I didn't grow up during the territorial days, but from what I understand, the idea was that you had this title because the top champion rarely wrestled competitive matches on TV. Nowadays that is obviously not the case, so what is the point of having a "TV Champion." And I hate it when the announcers say "it means he's the best wrestler on television." No he's not. The ROH World Champion is because being the ROH World Champion means you are the best there is, period. Why didn't they just call this belt something less silly? Even the "Honor Heritage Title" would have been better.

The convention of the secondary championship is an issue that has yet to be resolved. It’s really difficult to have a non-primary championship with the same regulations as the primary belt not come off as paper accomplishment for second-class citizens. The TV Title and the Intercontinental titles have both become a shorthand for the secondary championship, even though both are undefined. I forgive ROH for not solving a very old problem.

(There’s also the belts that signify particular divisions tuned into a particular wrestling style. Belts like the Pure, X-Division, and Grand titles rely often on specific talents and exhaust themselves quickly once stars move toward the top title. These belts are really unpredictable.)

I'd actually like to see more draws. They are a fantastic booking tool that has been completely underutilized in ROH over the past few years.

How many people on the roster can make a watchable 30-60 minute match? O’Reilly . . . Lethal . . . Cabana?

That’s not to say that I wouldn’t like if the promotion built stories and contenders around draws or that wrestlers couldn’t eventually pick up on how to work that kind of match. It seemed like Lethal was being set up to have an interesting throwback title reign after his great 60 minute World Title draw with Strong and the fantastic 30 minute TV Title draw with O’Reilly. Boy did they not pursue that idea!

[Wilson]

Sinclair- 5 years into ROH and Sinclair still won't spend the money to make ROH look as good as NXT. I think its safe to agree that all of us never expect it to look like WWE by my god could we please see the wrestlers when they come down the aisle way and could we get an announce desk that doesn't look like it has a couple table cloths from the party center on it.

Can't wait til Lagana comes in and we start getting Russo-esque storylines and a heel Office Boy on tv every week.

The show might look as much as five times better than it did in 2011. Come on.

I'm also pretty sure the last time the booking was consistent was when Lagana was around.

[Big Red Machine]

Also, this whole concept of a "TV Champion." I didn't grow up during the territorial days, but from what I understand, the idea was that you had this title because the top champion rarely wrestled competitive matches on TV. Nowadays that is obviously not the case, so what is the point of having a "TV Champion." And I hate it when the announcers say "it means he's the best wrestler on television." No he's not. The ROH World Champion is because being the ROH World Champion means you are the best there is, period. Why didn't they just call this belt something less silly? Even the "Honor Heritage Title" would have been better.

The convention of the secondary championship is an issue that has yet to be resolved. It’s really difficult to have a non-primary championship with the same regulations as the primary belt not come off as paper accomplishment for second-class citizens. The TV Title and the Intercontinental titles have both become a shorthand for the secondary championship, even though both are undefined. I forgive ROH for not solving a very old problem.

(There’s also the belts that signify particular divisions tuned into a particular wrestling style. Belts like the Pure, X-Division, and Grand titles rely often on specific talents and exhaust themselves quickly once stars move toward the top title. These belts are really unpredictable.)

My problem isn't with secondary titles in general so much as it is with the TV Title in particular due to its odd name and with how it is presented. If it was a normal secondary title like the US Title I would be fine with it. It's a lesser accomplishment that the world title, but still something worth being proud of (like a division championship as compared to a league championship). But in WWE no one goes around declaring the US Champion to be "the best wrestler in the United States" because the WWE Champion is also in the United Sates and it is acknowledged that that is a superior accomplishment.
With the TV Title you have Steve Corino saying the TV champ is "the best wrestler on television" even though the ROH World Champion is also on TV, which comes about because the belt has this odd name that really means nothing.

I'd actually like to see more draws. They are a fantastic booking tool that has been completely underutilized in ROH over the past few years.

How many people on the roster can make a watchable 30-60 minute match? O’Reilly . . . Lethal . . . Cabana?

That’s not to say that I wouldn’t like if the promotion built stories and contenders around draws or that wrestlers couldn’t eventually pick up on how to work that kind of match. It seemed like Lethal was being set up to have an interesting throwback title reign after his great 60 minute World Title draw with Strong and the fantastic 30 minute TV Title draw with O’Reilly. Boy did they not pursue that idea!

I'm not even advocating draws in title matches (though those could be useful, too, if done sparingly). I'm talking about a fifteen or twenty minute draw on the undercard in a situation where you want both guys to be presented strongly (and have a good match) but neither to have to lose. Take a situation where you have two guys who are deserving of title shots but have unfinished business with each other, like Kyle and Lethal do now. You can book them against each other in a big match before one of them gets his title shot and have them go to a draw, then do the rematch after Lethal gets his title shot with Kyle winning to both resolve their issue and build Kyle up for his title shot. This give you two big matches with clean finishes and a strong win for Kyle en route to his title shot, whereas without draws you would either be forced to hold off on booking them together until the first one lost his title shot (which will result in losing some of the heat for their issue) or you book them against each other and do some sort of crappy dirty finish which makes one of them lose and annoys people who don't like dirty finishes (which I think is a majority of fans).

[Big Red Machine]

Sinclair- 5 years into ROH and Sinclair still won't spend the money to make ROH look as good as NXT. I think its safe to agree that all of us never expect it to look like WWE by my god could we please see the wrestlers when they come down the aisle way and could we get an announce desk that doesn't look like it has a couple table cloths from the party center on it.

Can't wait til Lagana comes in and we start getting Russo-esque storylines and a heel Office Boy on tv every week.

The show might look as much as five times better than it did in 2011. Come on.

I'm also pretty sure the last time the booking was consistent was when Lagana was around.

Depends what your standards are. If you're talking about things being consistently great up and down the card, then yes, I think it was when Lagana was around (he left at about the time Sinclair TV started, I believe). If you mean "good enough" to keep interest in the product without things being exciting up and down the card, I'd say the last time we really had that was sometime around September 2014.