2016 Survival of the Fittest

[monster mafia]

final lineup for sotf

ARLINGTON:

NON-TOURNAMENT SINGLES MATCH
KYLE O’REILLY VS. CHRISTOPHER DANIELS (w/FRANKIE KAZARIAN)

NON-TOURNAMENT TAG TEAM MATCH
JAY & MARK BRISCOE VS. WAR MACHINE (HANSON & RAY ROWE)

FOUR-CORNER SURVIVAL SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST QUALIFIER
CMLL’S MISTERIOSO JR. VS. HANGMAN PAGE VS. LIO RUSH VS. SHO

TRIPLE THREAT SURVIVAL SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST QUALIFIER
DALTON CASTLE (w/THE BOYS) VS. RHETT TITUS (w/CAPRICE COLEMAN) VS. CHRIS SABIN

ONE-ON-ONE SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST QUALIFIER
DONOVAN DIJAK VS. JAX DANE

FOUR-CORNER SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST QUALIFIER
CMLL’S THE PANTHER VS. SILAS YOUNG VS. WILL FERRARA VS. YO

TRIPLE THREAT SURVIVAL SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST QUALIFIER
COLT CABANA VS. CHEESEBURGER VS. ALEX SHELLEY

ONE-ON-ONE SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST QUALIFIER
BOBBY FISH VS. KENNY KING (w/CAPRICE COLEMAN)

PLUS

SHANE TAYLOR & KEITH LEE

ARLINGTON

SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST 2016 FINALS
??? VS. ??? VS. ??? VS. ??? VS. ??? VS. ???

NO RULES
KEITH LEE & SHANE TAYLOR VS. WAR MACHINE (RAY ROWE & HANSON)

KYLE O'REILLY VS. FRANKIE KAZARIAN

CHRISTOPHER DANIELS VS. JAY BRISCOE

[ndp]

They should of just gone back to the classic method of 1 vs 1 matches for all the qualifiers

The problem there is that would lead to multiple random non-qualifier four-ways and many more issues of there being instances of the above confusion on why people like Daniels or the Briscoes are left out (yet Cheeseburger made it). That's not to say the way they went didn't have drawbacks and downright head scratching stuff.

Theoretically it's easier to win matches with less people which makes it weird that Dijak who wins jobber squashes on TV but has lost every live event match against actual competition I can remember for awhile now and a debuting Jax Dane get a singles match while more popular and higher positioned acts like Castle, Cabana, Silas, and Page, who has been losing a lot on TV but who they're at least pretending to be pushing, get harder to win three and four-ways. It tracks logically in the sense that some of those guys likely won't advance and you want to protect them from getting pinned, but that's the only way that tracks. Fish (my early guess for the winner since him wrestling his partner or the man who beat his partner are the easiest outcomes to build) getting a singles qualifier makes sense. Not so much for Dijak and the debuting Dane.

Cheeseburger's inclusion sure feels like a wet fart. That match could be pretty solid with pretty much anyone else in it. With him, meh. Some of the other qualifiers could be fun and the top two matches have potential, but yeah, like with most things, given that talent list, I expected slightly more.

[AlexROH]

I really like the cards for both nights. As someone said, Briscoes and Kyle already have title matches in the future, and War Machine is a big match on Night 2. I would love to see Donovan Dijak winning, but I know they will go slow now that he's a face without Nana in his corner. Fish or Cabana would be the other two "big" wrestlers that could win, but I don't see them winning. So, in the end, I hope we get a winner that hasn't face the world champion before, it could be a great opportunity to give someone in the midcard a good push. We'll see.

[BurningHammer]

The likes of Cheeseburger, Yo etc are great ways for someone to take a fall without causing any major political fall out in other promotions. I do think there are some matches though that would be great singularly but again right now it protects a lot of people in many ways, especially the Lucha guys and they can just use there nicer moves without having to build or attain emotion straight away which could be difficult considering there lack of exposure in ROH.

[Brada]

Would they put out that big promo for Jax Dane, mentioning the number of days he held the NWA strap, along with all its lineage, for him to lose to Dijak right out of the gate?

Good spot here for a Dane win, with some miscommunication from Nana, maybe even pairing Dane with Nana afterwards?

[Brada]

anybody else going to be there for Night 1 in Arlington other than myself and Vanilla Gorilla?

[Wilson]

So the non-tournament matches are better than all the qualifiers and generally contain bigger stars? Great. With last year’s winner being a non-roster member and this year having a terrible card with a shallow talent pool, ROH is pretty much treating this as a vacuous event like Tag Wars. Whatever, who needs to make stars anyway?

[monster mafia]

this is the chance to give dijak a push but maybe jax dane can be a important player for roh in the future so that match is interesting..

[BurningHammer]

Some confirmation about the title match happening, shame this wasn't actually through ROH.

Good promo by the way and the guy has some talent from what I can see.

It's a difficult position for Dijak and Dane, it might be best for them to go balls out and get some respect and a please come back chant for Dane. Although I can see Dijak loosing and maybe flipping out on Nana or just spreading out the story.

[monster mafia]

good promo ,he can fit in the cabinet too.

[Big Red Machine]

They should of just gone back to the classic method of 1 vs 1 matches for all the qualifiers

The problem there is that would lead to multiple random non-qualifier four-ways and many more issues of there being instances of the above confusion on why people like Daniels or the Briscoes are left out (yet Cheeseburger made it). That's not to say the way they went didn't have drawbacks and downright head scratching stuff.

This wouldn't be a problem if they would:
1) book fewer people on the show. This would allow the qualifiers to be longer and would save the company some money because you're not paying guys to wrestle meaningless matches.
2) build up challengers for your titles and put some title matches on night one. Why not give Castle the title shot he should have earned for pinning Cole in Champion vs. All-Stars on SOTF Night 1? You then have a reason for Dalton to not qualify for SOTF: because he is getting an even bigger match.
3) make wins and losses matter more so that you have a storyline reason to explain why one guy doesn't make it but another guy does

[Big Red Machine]

Would they put out that big promo for Jax Dane, mentioning the number of days he held the NWA strap, along with all its lineage, for him to lose to Dijak right out of the gate?

Good spot here for a Dane win, with some miscommunication from Nana, maybe even pairing Dane with Nana afterwards?

Or the whole point of the promo could have been to build Dane up to make Dijak's win more impressive. Dane feels like he is only being used here because he's a local guy and also a big dude.

[ndp]

This wouldn't be a problem if they would:
1) book fewer people on the show. This would allow the qualifiers to be longer and would save the company some money because you're not paying guys to wrestle meaningless matches.
2) build up challengers for your titles and put some title matches on night one. Why not give Castle the title shot he should have earned for pinning Cole in Champion vs. All-Stars on SOTF Night 1? You then have a reason for Dalton to not qualify for SOTF: because he is getting an even bigger match.
3) make wins and losses matter more so that you have a storyline reason to explain why one guy doesn't make it but another guy does

Yeah, that type of organization and continuity would be nice.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Pick 'Ems for the shows have been posted:

http://rohworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 86#p137286

[Big Red Machine]

it might be best for them to go balls out and get some respect and a please come back chant for Dane.

This right here is something I really feel has been missing from ROH for the past year or two. I don't want to call the wrestlers "lazy" because that's not exactly what I mean, and most of the matches are pretty good to great (6.75-7.5 range), but it definitely feels like there is more of a reliance on cheap pops/comedy/gimmickry going on. it's a very "house show" style- even on TV and the PPV undercards. Some of that is on the booker for not giving some of the matches enough time to really stand out, but for most of the wrestlers, I don't get the feeling that they are quite as "hungry" as guys in ROH used to be, and I think it's definitely hurting the product.

[BurningHammer]

it might be best for them to go balls out and get some respect and a please come back chant for Dane.

This right here is something I really feel has been missing from ROH for the past year or two. I don't want to call the wrestlers "lazy" because that's not exactly what I mean, and most of the matches are pretty good to great (6.75-7.5 range), but it definitely feels like there is more of a reliance on cheap pops/comedy/gimmickry going on. it's a very "house show" style- even on TV and the PPV undercards. Some of that is on the booker for not giving some of the matches enough time to really stand out, but for most of the wrestlers, I don't get the feeling that they are quite as "hungry" as guys in ROH used to be, and I think it's definitely hurting the product.

Yeah i don't know if it's trying to create a more professional atmosphere so everyone abid's by time slots or to have a better build within shows. It could simply be trying to create a more widely acceptable style than say a having 2 hour match or hour long draws which might take people out of the match, attention spans for many simply seem to shorter as well. I will say the Champions vs All Stars felt as close to the old ROH as I have experienced in a while especially the tag match at the end. Both GBH and CAS felt closer to the older product.

It also might be the fact that ROH runs a much heavier schedule now so it might to be save wrestlers for the year because that style certainly can't last heavily throughout the year.

[Big Red Machine]

it might be best for them to go balls out and get some respect and a please come back chant for Dane.

This right here is something I really feel has been missing from ROH for the past year or two. I don't want to call the wrestlers "lazy" because that's not exactly what I mean, and most of the matches are pretty good to great (6.75-7.5 range), but it definitely feels like there is more of a reliance on cheap pops/comedy/gimmickry going on. it's a very "house show" style- even on TV and the PPV undercards. Some of that is on the booker for not giving some of the matches enough time to really stand out, but for most of the wrestlers, I don't get the feeling that they are quite as "hungry" as guys in ROH used to be, and I think it's definitely hurting the product.

Yeah i don't know if it's trying to create a more professional atmosphere so everyone abid's by time slots or to have a better build within shows. It could simply be trying to create a more widely acceptable style than say a having 2 hour match or hour long draws which might take people out of the match, attention spans for many simply seem to shorter as well. I will say the Champions vs All Stars felt as close to the old ROH as I have experienced in a while especially the tag match at the end. Both GBH and CAS felt closer to the older product.

It also might be the fact that ROH runs a much heavier schedule now so it might to be save wrestlers for the year because that style certainly can't last heavily throughout the year.

It's definitely not producing "better build within shows" simply because it feels like there is not build at all within the shows because every match feels like the same solid 12-16 minute match over and over again (excluding the main event in some cases).
A heavier schedule could be the issue, but I don't think they're running that much more often than they were from mid 2006 until the fall of 2009 when they were running at least four shows a month pretty much every month. If that is the case, they obviously need to do what is best for the wrestlers, but I think they should pretty much be rotating who goes balls to the wall each show so that you're getting half balls to the wall matches and half solid matches (and even a short, solid match against the Briscoes could really help a team like LSG and Shaheem Ali) instead of the what we're getting now, which is every card is full of bland matches somewhere between being safe and solid and being great, so most of them feel disappointing when they go to a finish right before it feels like things were about to get great).

[Big Red Machine]

The website is advertising for Night 1 Briscoes vs. War Machine as: "A REMATCH SEVEN MONTHS IN THE MAKING."
It's actually been less than six months since their PPV title match.

[187_Joeism]

So the non-tournament matches are better than all the qualifiers and generally contain bigger stars? Great. With last year’s winner being a non-roster member and this year having a terrible card with a shallow talent pool, ROH is pretty much treating this as a vacuous event like Tag Wars. Whatever, who needs to make stars anyway?

I was reading the thread and i think this will force them to get someone over, i mean they don´t have some bigger stars included so they will have to pick someone new as the winner, i prefer that to lets say Kyle winning SOTF. They use SOTF like that on recent years, i like that they came back to their old use of the tournament this time.

[Wilson]

So the non-tournament matches are better than all the qualifiers and generally contain bigger stars? Great. With last year’s winner being a non-roster member and this year having a terrible card with a shallow talent pool, ROH is pretty much treating this as a vacuous event like Tag Wars. Whatever, who needs to make stars anyway?

I was reading the thread and i think this will force them to get someone over, i mean they don´t have some bigger stars included so they will have to pick someone new as the winner, i prefer that to lets say Kyle winning SOTF. They use SOTF like that on recent years, i like that they came back to their old use of the tournament this time.

What’s going to be the difference made if Dalton Castle beats Rhett Titus, or if Bobby Fish beats Kenny King, or if Silas Young beats Yo in the qualifiers? The qualifiers lack stakes and that’ll probably hurt the finals on the following night. The finals are likely to include a lot of faces very familiar in the midcard. Unless it’s just a terrific match, I doubt being the last midcarder amongst others will be the catalyzing agent that yields main event success.

My real point is that ROH doesn’t seem to be that invested in the idea of SOTF anymore. If they were, we could have seen at least could have more of a mix of main event talent (Jay Lethal, Adam Cole, Jay Briscoe) with emerging talent (Jay White, Keith Lee, Kamaitachi, or a member of the Kingdom). Also:

Cheeseburger's inclusion sure feels like a wet fart.

I don’t think this tournament is very vital, even though I would like it to be. Big, rigorous gauntlets are practically my favorite things in wrestling.