The General ROH Complaints Thread

dhads7161 · Post by **dhads7161** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:04 am

The rings from the Hopkins and Milwaukee shows. Live events are supposed to be "as seen on TV", ROH is trying to be the number two company in the U.S., quit using a local indie's ring for house shows, use your own. That's shit EVOLVE, CHIKARA, GFW, etc do, not a national promotion. Hell TNA wouldn't even pull that shit. I know it seems like nitpicking, but not seeing the ring you see on TV and seeing some shitty ring takes away from the overall live experience.

supersonic · Post by **supersonic** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:55 pm

SandsShifter · Post by **SandsShifter** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:05 pm

I'm. for some reason, blocked from reading TJ Hawke's tweets. I actually have NO idea what I did to earn this, but regardless, can someone sum up the nature of the complaints?

King of Indy Style · Post by **King of Indy Style** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:06 pm

Jesus Christ. ROH isn't above criticism but that guy is a massive fucking baby.

King of Indy Style · Post by **King of Indy Style** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:07 pm

SandsShifter wrote:I'm. for some reason, blocked from reading TJ Hawke's tweets. I actually have NO idea what I did to earn this, but regardless, can someone sum up the nature of the complaints?

Maybe seeing them on here will help, because you don't have to click the tweets themselves.

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/forum/ ... &start=555

Jay Lethal's Hair · Post by **Jay Lethal's Hair** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:13 pm

I agree with some of his "complaints" but that was one of the saddest things I saw in 2016.

Also - and it's a first - someone actually complaining that Lethal lost the belt to Cole. What a weird thing.

SandsShifter · Post by **SandsShifter** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:17 pm

Holy shit... I mean, some of his rants are very legitimate... but still, way way way over the top. How much alcohol went into that?

rovert · Post by **rovert** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:38 pm

King of Indy Style wrote:Jesus Christ. ROH isn't above criticism but that guy is a massive fucking baby.

I am not saying anything.

SandsShifter wrote:Holy shit... I mean, some of his rants are very legitimate... but still, way way way over the top.

Kind of the point.

TJ's points are pretty tame relative to what he could say.

AlexROH · Post by **AlexROH** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:18 am

I think this thread isn't 'necessary', I mean, if I don't like the booking of a show, I will write about it at that show's thread, the same with TV and all of that. Just like we've always done.

I defend that everybody can watch whatever they want, but I think like Brada, if you don't really like it, stop watching it! This doesnt mean stop complanning, I love ROH and I won't have any problem in complaning when I don't like something. I think that we, the ones who always follow the product and buy DVDs, VODs and PPVs, are the ones that could complain more because we are the fans that want a real improvement in the company that we love.

In the other hand, if you just don't like or hate how things are going in ROH now, stop watching it. If someone don't even whatch the product on a regular basis, why the hell would you waste your time complaning of a forum of a company you don't even like watching?

I've been a WWE fan since I was little, however, when I started to get bored and started to dislike everything they do, I just stopped watching it. There are plenty of wrestling companies right now, I'm sure you'll find one that fits you better than ROH.

But hey, is just the way I see things.I didn't want to be rude or something like that. Sorry, as always, if something wasnt understand the way I want it to, my english is far from perfect.

045 · Post by **045** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:44 am

AlexROH wrote: In the other hand, if you just don't like or hate how things are going in ROH now, stop watching it. If someone don't even whatch the product on a regular basis, why the hell would you waste your time complaning of a forum of a company you don't even like watching?

Million dollar question.

BurningHammer · Post by **BurningHammer** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:35 am

The thing is with all his complaints by curing them you may well just create more complaints especially from inside the company, if Dijak had been pushed, maybe Fish would have left already, if Rush had been pushed more maybe Lethal would have left already and also to bringing up Lee is just ridiculous the guy had a break out year and was involved with a very good feud in which he looked like a star and was the guy the making the wining pin.

The only way any of these complaints are going to change is obviously by people not attending the events, if all this is pissing you off and you don't like it don't watch it, ROH will only listen now when the crowd and money isn't there.

One thing I will pick up on that is really starting to piss me off is how narrow minded people are when looking at who ROH picks up and uses. We can all look at wrestlers like Kasa and Riddle and go they are great, in the ring yes for sure but what about their overall product, your telling me Riddle is going to give you the promo levels of Cole and Lethal, please that's just a crock he's work seems worse than Roddy, is Kasa going to have that connetion to the audience of a Dalton Castle, and if people don't think this overall product isn't important look at someone like the Mizz, this guy has found that momentum through character and his ability on the mic has allowed his ring work to reach a better connection with the audience which has increased his quality level. I will certainly add the caveat that ROH should look further or make a play for guys with far better ring work but there seems to be something missing from the wrestling fan these days and it's the enjoyment of hearing a guy on the mic or creating more with his extra gifts rather just a quality match, it's one reason why WWE hasn't reached the heights of previous years there just aren't the guys that have that extra it factor.

AlexROH · Post by **AlexROH** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:12 am

I find ridiculous too the fact that a lot of people complain about the product and they don't even see the shows. I mean, yeah, PPVs are important but ROH has had a bunch of awesome VOD shows and people ignored it because they want. ROH is more than just 6 PPVs a year. They do plenty of shows.

Plus, I agree with Burnning Hammer. ROH maybe isn't getting all the young talent out here, but the ones ROH choose are great at an overall product, not just in-ring. I love EVOLVE Wrestling too, but some of the guys/matches that Gabe Sapolsky book are cold. I mean, they are great, but it look like some wrestlers cannot conect with the crowd. In the other hand, ROH has three top wrestlers (Lio Rush, Donovan Dijak and Keith Lee). I can't understand someone complaning about them not been booked better, they've been just 1-4 years in the wrestling business, there is a lot of time for them to shine. And let be honest, Lee & Taylor? Bad booking? They destroyed War Machine in 2016 and were the breakout stars of the company. Lio and Dijak are just getting started and are now in the new MCMG. I don't want to say everything is perfect, but it isn't THAT bad as everybody say.

Thelone · Post by **Thelone** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 am

AlexROH wrote:I find ridiculous too the fact that a lot of people complain about the product and they don't even see the shows. I mean, yeah, PPVs are important but ROH has had a bunch of awesome VOD shows and people ignored it because they want. ROH is more than just 6 PPVs a year. They do plenty of shows.

Or you know, this shit is so grossly expensive that people easily skip random house shows nowadays.

ROH and Shimmer are very much at the same place right now. They claim to be the best but really aren't anymore, the talent they book aren't nearly as good as they once were, the content delivery is so horrendously out of date and/or expensive that people just cherry-pick or don't even bother. I don't expect ROH to go down anytime soon (although they're on their way to become another TNA), but I can definitely see Shimmer close shop in a year or two if they don't get their shit together.

045 · Post by **045** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:17 am

Or you know, this shit is so grossly expensive that people easily skip random house shows nowadays.

I went to look at tickets for Columbus Ohio when they went on sale and immediately noped out when I saw the prices. $75 for a house show is insane.

AlexROH · Post by **AlexROH** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:21 am

Thelone wrote:
AlexROH wrote:I find ridiculous too the fact that a lot of people complain about the product and they don't even see the shows. I mean, yeah, PPVs are important but ROH has had a bunch of awesome VOD shows and people ignored it because they want. ROH is more than just 6 PPVs a year. They do plenty of shows.
Or you know, this shit is so grossly expensive that people easily skip random house shows nowadays.

ROH and Shimmer are very much at the same place right now. They claim to be the best but really aren't anymore, the talent they book aren't nearly as good as they once were, the content delivery is so horrendously out of date and/or expensive that people just cherry-pick or don't even bother. I don't expect ROH to go down anytime soon (although they're on their way to become another TNA), but I can definitely see Shimmer close shop in a year or two if they don't get their shit together.

Yeah, it is expensive and would be better if the made an On Demand Service with their VODs and old stuff, but it seems like they are doing well with this model.

About the talent, talent always came and leave. ROH isnt the end of the road for the wrestlers. The roster isn't the best in company's history, but I think there is potetential. ROH isn't going to be as great as it was 10 years ago... Times have changed, but they are far from being USA worst company.

rovert · Post by **rovert** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:38 am

AlexROH wrote:I find ridiculous too the fact that a lot of people complain about the product and they don't even see the shows. I mean, yeah, PPVs are important but ROH has had a bunch of awesome VOD shows and people ignored it because they want. ROH is more than just 6 PPVs a year. They do plenty of shows.

You can't accuse TJ Hawke of that. He watches and reviews everything. Has opinions that goes against the grain but if he strongly praises something I'll do my best to watch or even rewatch a match.

http://411mania.com/author/tjhawke/

AlexROH · Post by **AlexROH** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:50 am

rovert wrote:
AlexROH wrote:I find ridiculous too the fact that a lot of people complain about the product and they don't even see the shows. I mean, yeah, PPVs are important but ROH has had a bunch of awesome VOD shows and people ignored it because they want. ROH is more than just 6 PPVs a year. They do plenty of shows.
You can't accuse TJ Hawke of that. He watches and reviews everything. Has opinions that goes against the grain but if he strongly praises something I'll do my best to watch or even rewatch a match.

http://411mania.com/author/tjhawke/

Yeah, I read TJ Hawke's website and I like the way he rate matches. I was talking in general. But, as someone said before, Hawke's way of complaning on twitter wasn't the best.

Plus, now that you mention TJ, most of the reviewrs at 411Mania (a Page I like to read) hate ROH's product, specially Larry. But thats another story.

FanSinceHDNet · Post by **FanSinceHDNet** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:40 am

rovert wrote:
AlexROH wrote:I find ridiculous too the fact that a lot of people complain about the product and they don't even see the shows. I mean, yeah, PPVs are important but ROH has had a bunch of awesome VOD shows and people ignored it because they want. ROH is more than just 6 PPVs a year. They do plenty of shows.
You can't accuse TJ Hawke of that. He watches and reviews everything. Has opinions that goes against the grain but if he strongly praises something I'll do my best to watch or even rewatch a match.

http://411mania.com/author/tjhawke/

I took a look through some of his lists. While thorough, they don't seem to include any (or perhaps "many") of the notable matches from the VOD/DVD shows.

There are positives from this: he's not including matches he hasn't seen. It also speaks to a ROH content issue: as everyone is biting the bullet making their content cheaper and easier to find, ROH lags behind.

But there are negatives. Like Alex mentioned, there are more than the TV and PPVs throughout the year. The six man in Pittsburgh was awesome, Lio Rush had an awesome match in Collinsville, and I loved Briscoe vs. Roddy and War Machine vs. Addiction from Columbus but nobody seems to talk about them.

That's probably less the reviewer's fault and more so a result of a lack of promotion.

That all being said, I appreciate the attempt at organization. His tweets on the otherhand make him seem like a child even when he hits on a valid point.

Post by **Wilson** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:46 am

I advise that any real criticism of ROH at the product level be taken elsewhere. This thread was created as a vacuum to restrain criticism.

There are a lot of things one could criticize ROH of at the moment (the most elephantine being the uncertainty heading into WK, the 1/14 taping, and 15YA), though I think we all could summarize more sober thoughts than those tweets by Hawke.

Post by **cgstong** » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:07 am

045 wrote:
Or you know, this shit is so grossly expensive that people easily skip random house shows nowadays.
I went to look at tickets for Columbus Ohio when they went on sale and immediately noped out when I saw the prices. $75 for a house show is insane.

1. Welcome to the board

2. yeah they are pricing really high in certain areas where not sure if it's wise or not but I'm hoping they've done the research to see if the market will handle it. Sucks it's cost prohibitive for you. Maybe GA?

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