Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:14 pm
Gedo.
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Paul Heyman.
I said Gedo was the most overrated, not that he was the worst. Aside from Hunter, none of those other guys are getting much praise for anything they do (and rightly so, in my opinion).famicommander wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:46 amBig Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:18 amIs there any team that doesn't win those belts pretty much right away? Gedo has got to be the most overrated booker in the wrestling industry by miles.
Look at the other major bookers right now
ROH - Delirious
CMLL - Ultimo Guerrero and others
AAA - Vampiro and others
Impact - John Gaburick and others
WWE - Road Dogg, HHH, Vince McMahon, and others
I'd trade you all those dudes and a first round draft pick for Gedo.
Gabe. By miles. Gedo has an eye for talent, but other than that all he knows how to do is protect some guys and protect some moves. Gabe can do all of that while telling interesting stories.
Evolve is known for all those interesting stories they've told this year.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:01 pmGabe. By miles. Gedo has an eye for talent, but other than that all he knows how to do is protect some guys and protect some moves. Gabe can do all of that while telling interesting stories.
They got a rockstar type reaction for the crowd. NJPW has desperately needed a top junior japanese tag team for years.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:18 amIs there any team that doesn't win those belts pretty much right away? Gedo has got to be the most overrated booker in the wrestling industry by miles.
All of the stuff with Lee has been interesting to me, all of the stuff with Galloway was excellent, and I very much enjoyed both the Darby vs. Page feud and the Zack vs. Thatcher feud. Maybe "interesting" wasn't the right word so much as "nuanced."YimYac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:37 pmEvolve is known for all those interesting stories they've told this year.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:01 pmGabe. By miles. Gedo has an eye for talent, but other than that all he knows how to do is protect some guys and protect some moves. Gabe can do all of that while telling interesting stories.
But Gedo had no way of knowing that would happen when he made the decision to put the belts on them. IMO it devalues the belts for everyone to win them right away.YimYac wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:39 pmThey got a rockstar type reaction for the crowd. NJPW has desperately needed a top junior japanese tag team for years.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:18 amIs there any team that doesn't win those belts pretty much right away? Gedo has got to be the most overrated booker in the wrestling industry by miles.
Gedo excels in scouting and reutilizing talent after excursions. Hotshotting the belts on Hiromu or Okada didn't detriment their respective belts. Sho and Yoh came off really great--and I love their flashy Ghostbusters look--but you're right about the division in general. The only team who has been in a junior tag team title match that hasn't won the belt this year were Jado and Gedo. Purposefully established undercard belts are shameful things.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:33 am But Gedo had no way of knowing that would happen when he made the decision to put the belts on them. IMO it devalues the belts for everyone to win them right away.
More to that, I am appreciating that Doom Patrol has been built to be their prominent tag team in some time. ACH's story was also getting good before all that Troll Boyz folderol.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:32 am All of the stuff with Lee has been interesting to me, all of the stuff with Galloway was excellent, and I very much enjoyed both the Darby vs. Page feud and the Zack vs. Thatcher feud. Maybe "interesting" wasn't the right word so much as "nuanced."
I guess there is still movement to be made with the US belt before I can really make an opinion here, but NJPW doesn't seem like they can keep with with four singles titles if they're all chiefly under one promotion. Haven't been into the NEVER belt at all this year. It's been one of the worst singles belts in a major promotion, honestly. Unless it can be retooled for younger talent or for juniors-going-on-heavyweight that belt should be thrown in the dumpster.famicommander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:39 am And I don't think they need three midcard titles. Unify the IC belt with the NEVER belt.
I think the presence of the NEVER belt wouldn't be a problem if they didn't have so many. With both the IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Titles being treated like world titles, it might help to have a mid-card singles belt as well. The problem is that with the US Title and NEVER six-man titles and two sets of tag titles running around, every match pretty much becomes a title match. I'd cut the six-man belts and US belt and unify the tag belts. Another possibility that might help but they'll NEVER do is shrink the stables. They could have more teams running around if CHAOS or Bullet Club were allowed to have more than one team at a time.famicommander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:39 am I agree that the tag booking should be better.
They should unify the heavyweight and jr heavyweight tag belts. Would make for some fresh matchups and open up some space on the cards for better feuds.
And I don't think they need three midcard titles. Unify the IC belt with the NEVER belt.
I didn't even realize Okada hadn't been pinned in a year.Wilson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:11 amGedo excels in scouting and reutilizing talent after excursions. Hotshotting the belts on Hiromu or Okada didn't detriment their respective belts. Sho and Yoh came off really great--and I love their flashy Ghostbusters look--but you're right about the division in general. The only team who has been in a junior tag team title match that hasn't won the belt this year were Jado and Gedo. Purposefully established undercard belts are shameful things.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:33 am But Gedo had no way of knowing that would happen when he made the decision to put the belts on them. IMO it devalues the belts for everyone to win them right away.
Though I really disagree with your position on Gedo. The Tanahashi/Okada program itself can be made to be a case for a HOF discussion. Also, if I recall correctly, he has a huge part in agenting the top matches. Okada's success looks to me to be completely coauthored. If there is a factual relation between managing and having a mind for the business, Gedo belongs in the same discussion as Cornette or Heyman.
Some pretty good stories that happened in NJPW this year:
- Okada's yearlong undefeated streak was given to an up-and-coming EVIL
- Hiromu's two minute sprint through the face of the junior division
- Creating a program between Omega/Ishii which all had differing stakes, itslef a sub-plot to Omega/Okada
- Booking an evidently fantastic face/heel dynamic in Okada/Cody
- Rebuilding Bad Luck Fale in short order to put over Shibata as a major number one contendor
My hope is that there is more to tell with that. I think it would have been great to have Page do something to get himself fired rather than just have him disappear, which could put some fear of G-d back into ACH and making start behaving like the self-important dick he was back in May before all of this Troll Boyz stuff started.Wilson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:11 amMore to that, I am appreciating that Doom Patrol has been built to be their prominent tag team in some time. ACH's story was also getting good before all that Troll Boyz folderol.Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:32 am All of the stuff with Lee has been interesting to me, all of the stuff with Galloway was excellent, and I very much enjoyed both the Darby vs. Page feud and the Zack vs. Thatcher feud. Maybe "interesting" wasn't the right word so much as "nuanced."
But all of that aside, I think he would bring ideas to progress stories a little more quickly, and/or ideas for undercard stories, and also he would cut down on the bullsh*t and terrible refereeing in all of the matches.famicommander wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:29 pm Jim Cornette is gigantic seven year old that lives in 1974. He's still great on the mic and he knows a lot of history but his views on modern wrestling are frankly embarrassing. Not to mention he has a long history of assault charges. He doesn't belong in civilized society, let alone a major wrestling promotion in 2017. He's still so butthurt about that scumbag Russo taking his job that he called Kenny Bolin bragging about hiring someone to kill Russo. Nobody knows if Cornette actually hired the guy, but Bolin took it seriously enough that Russo now has a restraining order and Cornette ended a 40+ year friendship with Bolin.
The industry needs to leave people like Cornette and Russo in the past.