ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

[monster mafia]

rip roh, oh my god..rip.

[FanSinceHDNet]

rip roh, oh my god..rip.

Yep! Might as well close up the doors now!

[rohfan237]

That's exactly what I said!

[LJimmy]

Some of the talent will sign with the WWE . They always do. Whether it is Kyle O ' Reilly , Bobby Fish , Raymond Rowe, Lio Rush , Donovan Dijak , Hanson or somebody else, these young wrestlers seemed to be compelled to be under the boot of Vince McMahon. In other words some of these guys are WWE marks.

People like Drew Gulak and Tony Nese cannot be making any real money signing WWE deals. In fact these guys are just degrading the market for the current crop of free agents. The WWE is not interested in these wrestlers for their ability to draw money , they just want to keep the talent from ROH , NJPW , LU , CMLL and TNA.

SBGI cannot be put out of business by McMahon. SBGI just has too many resources that place that place ROH beyond McMahon reach . However , if McMahon can create any environment where ROH cannot make a profit , perhaps Sinclair will shutter ROH or sell their business to McMahon at a heavy discount. The same line of thinking applies to NJPW, CMLL , LU and even TNA.


McMahon is attempting to divert all young talent that might be future money draws to Evolve and/or NXT . The end game is to leave all potential future rivals with a talent pool that will not draw a dime. That way once again McMahon will have total control of the wrestling talent.

Guys like the Bucks, Kenny Omega and Lethal are wise to McMahon ways. If ROH , NJPW , CMLL , TNA and LU cease to exist , McMahon will have all of the leverage . As a result pay and working conditions head straight for the dumpster fire.If wrestlers are signing low paying deals just to get their foot in the WWE they are helping McMahon damage the business. Talent should look at AJ Styles as an example . AJ paid his dues and became a major wrestling star on his own terms. When the WWE came to take him from NJPW & ROH , they had to pay out big bucks.

I read online reports where wrestlers in the UK are signing restrictive deals that only pay $ 19 ,000 per year . A person can make more than that mowing lawns.

There are faults in the WWE plan . . First of companies like ROH and NJPW can cherry pick the talent they really want and pay a premium for their services.

Second , there is large pool of young wrestling talents . ROH/ NJPW identify fresh faces and make new stars. The numbers of young talent are so large that NXT and Evolve cannot sign them all.

Third , the WWE is not Apple or AT & T. they will only be able to support their bloated payroll for so long. The WWE is publicly traded company. If they miss on their quarterly numbers, the WWE will have to reduce cost to make their shareholders happy . As always the Tony Nese 's and Drew Gulaks will pay the price and lose their spots. Talent will become available to ROH , NJPW and the rest of the promotions.

Lastly , having and wanting are two different things. Once people actually get to work for the McMahons , they discover they are not very nice people . Ask CM Punk and John Morrison about working for the WWE. More talent for ROH and company.

In the end people like rohfan and rovert seem to think ROH will be destroyed by their hero , HHH . I hope they are not holding their breath . You see , wrestlers come and go . I seen whole locker rooms leave at once. That is the nature of the business . As long as fans want to see a traditional wrestling product , companies like ROH and NJPW will survive and even thrive. Just my take on the subject.

Also everyone have a happy new year and please don't drink and drive.

The only problem I see is this. Ofcourse, WWE can't stop people from leaving who want out once their deals expire, but I feel like WWE has got it all figured out as far as who they need to get rid of when the time comes to cut costs. I think all the WWE departures of 2016 shows this.

Just look at who they let go in 2016. It was mainly people who overstayed their welcome, people who were not all that good to begin with or people who don't seem to be all that interested in tearing it up on the indies once they leave WWE. Basically people who they know won't be much of a threat like these interchangeable announcers they hire, Zeb Colter, Hornswoggle, Torito, Cameron, Santino, Sandow, Alex Riley, Adam Rose, Bull Dempsey, the Tribunal from TNA, the non-wrestling prospects from NXT, etc.

They also let Ryback and Cody walk. Maybe they could've kept Ryback if they wanted to, but they didn't give into his demands and today he doesn't seem to be all that interested in working for these high in ring quality feds. With Cody he wanted out and they let him leave. I think that shows how good they think he really is and how much of an impact he can make outside of WWE. WWE doesn't have to let anybody go if they're under contract. Daniel Bryan wanted a release and they didn't let him out.

Not exactly any Drew Galloways in this bunch.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Some of the talent will sign with the WWE . They always do. Whether it is Kyle O ' Reilly , Bobby Fish , Raymond Rowe, Lio Rush , Donovan Dijak , Hanson or somebody else, these young wrestlers seemed to be compelled to be under the boot of Vince McMahon. In other words some of these guys are WWE marks.

People like Drew Gulak and Tony Nese cannot be making any real money signing WWE deals. In fact these guys are just degrading the market for the current crop of free agents. The WWE is not interested in these wrestlers for their ability to draw money , they just want to keep the talent from ROH , NJPW , LU , CMLL and TNA.

SBGI cannot be put out of business by McMahon. SBGI just has too many resources that place that place ROH beyond McMahon reach . However , if McMahon can create any environment where ROH cannot make a profit , perhaps Sinclair will shutter ROH or sell their business to McMahon at a heavy discount. The same line of thinking applies to NJPW, CMLL , LU and even TNA.


McMahon is attempting to divert all young talent that might be future money draws to Evolve and/or NXT . The end game is to leave all potential future rivals with a talent pool that will not draw a dime. That way once again McMahon will have total control of the wrestling talent.

Guys like the Bucks, Kenny Omega and Lethal are wise to McMahon ways. If ROH , NJPW , CMLL , TNA and LU cease to exist , McMahon will have all of the leverage . As a result pay and working conditions head straight for the dumpster fire.If wrestlers are signing low paying deals just to get their foot in the WWE they are helping McMahon damage the business. Talent should look at AJ Styles as an example . AJ paid his dues and became a major wrestling star on his own terms. When the WWE came to take him from NJPW & ROH , they had to pay out big bucks.

I read online reports where wrestlers in the UK are signing restrictive deals that only pay $ 19 ,000 per year . A person can make more than that mowing lawns.

There are faults in the WWE plan . . First of companies like ROH and NJPW can cherry pick the talent they really want and pay a premium for their services.

Second , there is large pool of young wrestling talents . ROH/ NJPW identify fresh faces and make new stars. The numbers of young talent are so large that NXT and Evolve cannot sign them all.

Third , the WWE is not Apple or AT & T. they will only be able to support their bloated payroll for so long. The WWE is publicly traded company. If they miss on their quarterly numbers, the WWE will have to reduce cost to make their shareholders happy . As always the Tony Nese 's and Drew Gulaks will pay the price and lose their spots. Talent will become available to ROH , NJPW and the rest of the promotions.

Lastly , having and wanting are two different things. Once people actually get to work for the McMahons , they discover they are not very nice people . Ask CM Punk and John Morrison about working for the WWE. More talent for ROH and company.

In the end people like rohfan and rovert seem to think ROH will be destroyed by their hero , HHH . I hope they are not holding their breath . You see , wrestlers come and go . I seen whole locker rooms leave at once. That is the nature of the business . As long as fans want to see a traditional wrestling product , companies like ROH and NJPW will survive and even thrive. Just my take on the subject.

Also everyone have a happy new year and please don't drink and drive.

This is what I kind of alluded to in another post why I think Cole is staying.

[rovert]

In the end people like rohfan and rovert seem to think ROH will be destroyed by their hero , HHH . I hope they are not holding their breath . You see , wrestlers come and go . I seen whole locker rooms leave at once. That is the nature of the business . As long as fans want to see a traditional wrestling product , companies like ROH and NJPW will survive and even thrive. Just my take on the subject.

Hero? I think you are reading obvious goofing off on Twitter as 100% my legit thoughts.

Delirious is doing more damage to ROH than Triple H is. From his booking, broken promises, not calling/texting back talent to stuff I don't want to say on ROHWorld.

2017 will be a very uncertain time in Wrestling from a interpromotional relationship and technology POV the front office isn't the most fastest moving entity in the World whether it be the actions or attitudes of the staff or dealing with Sinclair's bureaucracy. ROH requires a nimbleness that they simply don't seem to have.

This is what I kind of alluded to in another post why I think Cole is staying.

Not a chance.

[cgstong]

Hero? I think you are reading obvious goofing off on Twitter as 100% my legit thoughts.

Delirious is doing more damage to ROH than Triple H is. From his booking, broken promises, not calling/texting back talent to stuff I don't want to say on ROHWorld.

2017 will be a very uncertain time in Wrestling from a interpromotional relationship and technology POV the front office isn't the most fastest moving entity in the World whether it be the actions or attitudes of the staff or dealing with Sinclair's bureaucracy. ROH requires a nimbleness that they simply don't seem to have.

This is true sadly on many fronts that so many won't talk about or report on. But it is what it is.

[rovert]

This is a time period where ROH should be building real relationships with talent. It is a different culture but there's a lot of talent who will stick with Dragon Gate, New Japan, STARDOM etc out of loyalty. This time last year other members of the Bullet Club were weighing up their options to go to WWE but out of a combination of better contract terms, promises of pushes (which New Japan held up their end on - take note ROH) and loyalty they stayed. But as someone told me a few months ago there's no more Honor in Ring of Honor.

[DBSommer]

McMahon is attempting to divert all young talent that might be future money draws to Evolve and/or NXT . The end game is to leave all potential future rivals with a talent pool that will not draw a dime. That way once again McMahon will have total control of the wrestling talent.

Guys like the Bucks, Kenny Omega and Lethal are wise to McMahon ways. If ROH , NJPW , CMLL , TNA and LU cease to exist , McMahon will have all of the leverage . As a result pay and working conditions head straight for the dumpster fire.If wrestlers are signing low paying deals just to get their foot in the WWE they are helping McMahon damage the business. Talent should look at AJ Styles as an example . AJ paid his dues and became a major wrestling star on his own terms. When the WWE came to take him from NJPW & ROH , they had to pay out big bucks.

I read online reports where wrestlers in the UK are signing restrictive deals that only pay $ 19 ,000 per year . A person can make more than that mowing lawns.ve.

To say nothing of the fact that the logic behind the 'threat' of being shut out of WWE if they don't sign contracts now contradicts why The E are doing this in the first place.

Wrestler: You want me to be on 'retainer' to you to keep me out of the hands of rival companies that would pay me more than you're offering me now, as well as increasing my visibility, which is the main way of become a draw. I want to become a draw since if I do, I make increasingly larger paychecks the bigger I get. So why do I hamstring myself by accepting your offer of less money and decreasing my chance to become a name in the business?

WWE: We'll hire other people before you and not hire you in the future.

Wrestler: Okay, so you were desperate enough to pay me a small sum of cash with no direct return to keep me from becoming a draw for other companies before I was one. But once I am a draw for the other companies, you'll refuse to hire me and let me stay with the rival company and continue to be a draw for them despite the fact your whole scheme is to prevent that? To say nothing of your refusal to hire someone that is drawing, which is what you want since you need people to draw for you.


Seriously, the only people that should be considering this are those that are convinced they'll never be a draw either because:

A: They can't do it on their own, and need the E to make them into one or
B: They know damn well they'll never be a draw no matter what and this is a chance to make a quick buck.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

This is a time period where ROH should be building real relationships with talent. It is a different culture but there's a lot of talent who will stick with Dragon Gate, New Japan, STARDOM etc out of loyalty. This time last year other members of the Bullet Club were weighing up their options to go to WWE but out of a combination of better contract terms, promises of pushes (which New Japan held up their end on - take note ROH) and loyalty they stayed. But as someone told me a few months ago there's no more Honor in Ring of Honor.

How does Christopher Daniels factor in his backstage role? What is his relationship with Delirious?

[Jay Lethal's Hair]

Fish is probably more frustrated with not being booked for 1/4 and George being fired. George being fired was a very under reported story.

Except no one has followed up the George story with anything around how it actually affected Ring of Honor. Because at the time, around Global Wars, all the communication issues were reported, Delirious had too much on his plate, talent upset (everyone's leaving 12/31), etc. Ask Rovert (now you can stop parroting all his points, he's here)- he shared most of it and pushed for it to be reported.

So the fallout was George was let go, and the $ allocated his way was moved over to creating a full-time position for Kevin Kelly to act as a liaison for talent and to take a bunch off of Delirious' plate.

If you start at the Best in the World weekend of shows, that's the first group of shows where the new alignment was in effect. New communication channels in place, it was also the best TV of the year.

I'm sure there were people initially upset with George being removed, and maybe even harbor resentment still and that is understandable. I'd like to hear more about how big of a deal this was 7 months later. Is the product worse?

[WHG]

This is a good point about Carroll. At the time when he was let go, everyone was bashing virtually everything that was happening creatively. He may have been well liked, but beyond being credited with the reDRagon act (which I took to mean their early promos, etc... which were gold but had long since been abandoned with their face turn), his help didn't seem to be making a noticeable impact. I fail to see how things are worse today than they were. Their TV & PPVs were all better after.

[rohfan237]

Parroting rovert's points, like telling you days ago Kyle is leaving, and weeks ago that WM is done. On Friday, rovert and Casey thought FloSlam had signed Kyle and that he would be working with Gabe.

[rovert]

Anyway let the migration of ROH talents to Gabeland begin:
https://twitter.com/BookItGabe/status/8 ... 3069072384

Parroting rovert's points, like telling you days ago Kyle is leaving, and weeks ago that WM is done. On Friday, rovert and Casey thought FloSlam had signed Kyle and that he would be working with Gabe.

Wait what?

- Kyle leaving has been known for months
- WM looking elsewhere has been known for months
- Zero clue about this Casey thing

Not only you seem to be parroting my points but you are doing it very badly.

[Wilson]

Anyway let the migration of ROH talents to Gabeland begin:
https://twitter.com/BookItGabe/status/8 ... 3069072384

Not very surprised by this at all. He'll be really exciting in that environment.

Parroting rovert's points, like telling you days ago Kyle is leaving, and weeks ago that WM is done. On Friday, rovert and Casey thought FloSlam had signed Kyle and that he would be working with Gabe.

Wait what?

- Kyle leaving has been known for months
- WM looking elsewhere has been known for months
- Zero clue about this Casey thing

Not only you seem to be parroting my points but you are doing it very badly.

This poster uses truth and half-truths to make deceptive claim. It's not reporting, it's destructive posting. I'm sure the poster is really amused at everyone's responses.

If IP addresses should be examined, rovert is indeed not rohfan237 (I hope that didn't actually need clarification). In fact, rohfan237 is associated with another account on this forum. It's really insulting to the users here that one would write in an alias for what is already a message board alias, whom hasn't posted under that name in months. In other words, this account is a burner account, much like what trolls do. I think we should all do our best to not stoke that poster's confrontational, corrosive, and deceptive attitudes.

I'm also seeing more direct calling-out and namecalling. This is a reminder to be more civil. One can pretty immediately discern the behaviors of aggression and amenable discussion. I'm not shy about wearing the worn, shabby moderator's hat.

[rovert]

I assume rohfan237 is supersonic then. Has a rep.

[WHG]

Hey rovey, on the Kyle leaving has been known for months thing...are we ignoring the period a few weeks ago where you said it was unlikely any main eventers were going to leave and they'd just lose midcard talent and Cole in the spring?

[Wilson]

I assume rohfan237 is supersonic then. Has a rep.

The user in question hasn't posted in months, and won't really interest anyone. It's a matter that isn't much up for discussion.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I assume rohfan237 is supersonic then. Has a rep.

I can assure you supersonic is not rohfan237. I think that we can stick to wrestling with all this shit becoming so inflammatory. I, for one, am glad you opened an account here. You are the subject of a lot of speculation here and have an opportunity to defend yourself.

[rovert]

Hey rovey, on the Kyle leaving has been known for months thing...are we ignoring the period a few weeks ago where you said it was unlikely any main eventers were going to leave and they'd just lose midcard talent and Cole in the spring?

No we are not. Kyle has been looking elsewhere for months. But you need to somewhere else to go before you can fully really leave until where is openly discussed whats there to talk about in definitive terms? This is the third time in three years has this happened with Red Dragon and the last two times they resigned.

I assume rohfan237 is supersonic then. Has a rep.

The user in question hasn't posted in months, and won't really interest anyone. It's a matter that isn't much up for discussion.

Fair enough.

I think that we can stick to wrestling with all this shit becoming so inflammatory. I, for one, am glad you opened an account here. You are the subject of a lot of speculation here and have an opportunity to defend yourself.

The obsession with me and the crossing post was always way creepy here. I am simply a fan.

There's nothing to defend as I've been pretty spot on about ROH this year. If people didn't recognise that months ago their issue not mine.