ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
Blackshirt30
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by Blackshirt30 »

Obviously there's been serious disarray in the front office for while now. Couple that with the fact that ROH can't seem to build top level guys anymore. Or when they do try, the talent ends up leaving. The roster is shit right now. Scurll is great, but he (and Cole) will probably be gone on a few months. Thank goodness the YB's re-signed because I have no clue who else would be a top draw in this company right now. All these guys are not leaving because of the WWE. They're leaving because there is some serious disarray at the top. I'll let insiders speculate on the who, what, and why. But anyone with two eyes can see there is a serious disconnect between the office and the talent.
Big Red Machine
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

nickdiamante wrote:There are limitations in ROH, obviously. Only 1 hour of weekly programming, and they are taped a month in advance. It's hard to fit everyone in and get a natural flow to your storylines. But the good thing that happens is feuds generally last longer because they are addressed on TV over a longer period of time.
Those limitations would be easier to work around with a tighter, more focused roster. We don't need to be wasting TV time with Kevin Sullivan, Will Ferrara, Cheeseburger, The Cabinet, Brutal Bob, the six-man titles, etc. If you cull your focus on TV down to eighteen or so acts (say Cole, the Bucks, Page, Cody, Fish, Lethal, Briscoes, Dalton, Addiction, Silas [with BCB as backup], Rush, Ospreay, Scurll, White, War Machine, MCMG, Cabana, Martinez managed by Whitmer) that's somewhere between seven and nine feuds, which, between matches and backstage promos and competent storytelling and commentary makes it easy to do something that furthers every storyline every two or three weeks.
Feuds lasting longer is not a good thing when they don't go anywhere, and that is the problem ROH has had lately. Addiction vs. MCMG lasted from February until September, but almost nothing of any note happened from the beginning of the feud until July.
nickdiamante wrote: And how can ROH afford to sign guys for more than a year? We're not dealing with a huge corporation like WWE. ROH can't be compared to WCW. ROH can be compared to ECW, at best, in terms of where they stand in the pecking order of strong wrestling promotions. And ECW was never anywhere close to competing with WWE.
ROH doesn't have to be signing people to more than one year at a time if they know how to make storylines work. And you get someone to come back by balancing out the difference in pay with artistic freedom, better creative, opportunity to be a bigger player, and the chance of getting booked in New Japan... which is essentially what happened with the Bucks and could easily happen with others. Yes, some people will take the choice that will leave them more financially secure, but it's your job to have your finger on the pulse of the promotions below you so that you can spot the next Lio Rush and sign him to replace those guys when they do leave.
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supersonic
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by supersonic »

ROH gave out 3-year deals a decade ago. That would be a welcome resurrection.

WWE's workrate has never been more consistent, and easily delivers more MOTYCs on the main roster alone than ROH. The indies aren't needed for great action anymore.
nickdiamante
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by nickdiamante »

supersonic wrote:WWE's workrate has never been more consistent, and easily delivers more MOTYCs on the main roster alone than ROH. The indies aren't needed for great action anymore.
Which matches in recent memory from WWE do you consider MOTYCs? Cena vs. Styles was very good.

But I'm scratching my head looking for others.

And I'm sure any MOTYCs from WWE lately likely had ROH/NJPW-past talent in them.

People seemed to love that Revival vs. DIY match from NXT in Toronto. I was at that event and wasn't overly impressed. It was good, don't get me wrong, but nothing special. And Joe vs. Nakamura was surprisingly dull, IMO. Had Joe vs. Nakamura happened that same weekend in ROH, I bet it would have been much more exciting.

But yeah... I'd love to hear what you think was a MOTYC from WWE recently.
Last edited by nickdiamante on Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
JTCole
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by JTCole »

nickdiamante wrote:
supersonic wrote:WWE's workrate has never been more consistent, and easily delivers more MOTYCs on the main roster alone than ROH. The indies aren't needed for great action anymore.
What matches in recent memory from WWE do you consider MOTYCs from WWE? Cena vs. Styles was very good.

But I'm scratching my head looking for others.

And I'm sure any MOTYCs from WWE lately likely had ROH/NJPW-past talent in them.

People seemed to love that Revival vs. DIY match from NXT in Toronto. I was at that event and wasn't overly impressed. It was good, don't get me wrong, but nothing special. And Joe vs. Nakamura was surprisingly dull, IMO. Had Joe vs. Nakamura happened that same weekend in ROH, I bet it would have been much more exciting.

But yeah... I'd love to hear what you think was a MOTYC from WWE recently.
AJ vs Cena from last month is an easy MotY candidate.
nickdiamante
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by nickdiamante »

supersonic wrote:AJ vs Cena from last month is an easy MotY candidate.
Any others?

I mean, they signed Styles & Nakamura over a year ago now. They've had Kevin Steen for a little while now. They have Roddy now, who I feel is a fantastic in-ring worker. But where are the 5-Star matches?

Steen's matches vs. Cena were all great, but those were a while back. Styles matches vs. Cena were also great.

But with the rate they've been taking guys from ROH/NJPW/Indys you'd figure we would have had A LOT more 5-Star matches by now. But where are they?
nickdiamante
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by nickdiamante »

WWE owns the industry now... thus, no reason to give us fans what we truly crave - GOOD WRESTLING and smart storylines! When Nitro was kicking Raw's ass, we got good everything. Now, they want us to cheer Cena and Reigns even though it's clear that we don't want to lol

Instead, we get 3 minute Cruiserweight matches on Raw. I guess there could be some decent matches on 205 Live, but nobody watches that show apparently.

So, yeah... let's blame ROH lol
JTCole
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by JTCole »

There's literally several dozen places you can get good wrestling now. Shit, YouTube has a plethora of great and little scene wrestling content.

Just friggin ignore WWE if you want.
King of Indy Style
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by King of Indy Style »

I mean, I can kinda get where you're coming from in regards to the WWE, but at this point I don't watch WWE and don't care to ever watch it again. I find their style of wrestling slow, watered down and boring compared to what other companies offer.
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supersonic
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by supersonic »

nickdiamante wrote:
supersonic wrote:WWE's workrate has never been more consistent, and easily delivers more MOTYCs on the main roster alone than ROH. The indies aren't needed for great action anymore.
Which matches in recent memory from WWE do you consider MOTYCs? Cena vs. Styles was very good.

But I'm scratching my head looking for others.

And I'm sure any MOTYCs from WWE lately likely had ROH/NJPW-past talent in them.

People seemed to love that Revival vs. DIY match from NXT in Toronto. I was at that event and wasn't overly impressed. It was good, don't get me wrong, but nothing special. And Joe vs. Nakamura was surprisingly dull, IMO. Had Joe vs. Nakamura happened that same weekend in ROH, I bet it would have been much more exciting.

But yeah... I'd love to hear what you think was a MOTYC from WWE recently.

Follow my annual Road to WrestleMania year-in-review journeys in the Other Wrestling section, which started at TLC 2012 due to the Shield sparking WWE’s workrate renaissance like never before.

Every match below got at least ****1/2. This means there are numerous consensus classics that didn’t even rate that high for me, including the Shield’s in-ring debut. I am incredibly thorough in detailing why all of these matches make my MOTYC lists.

The 2013 Royal Rumble match
John Cena vs. CM Punk – Raw 2/25/2013
Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk – SummerSlam 2013
John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan – SummerSlam 2013
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan – Raw 12/16/2013
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family – Elimination Chamber 2014
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn – NXT Arrival
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan – WrestleMania XXX
Neville vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyson Kidd vs. Tyler Breeze – NXT Takeover: Fatal 4-Way
Neville vs. Sami Zayn – NXT Takeover: R Evolution
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena vs. Seth Rollins – Royal Rumble 2015
Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns – WrestleMania 31
Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch – NXT Takeover: Unstoppable
John Cena vs. Kevin Owens – Money in the Bank 2015
Finn Balor vs. Chris Jericho – WWE Live in Tokyo 7/3/2015
Kevin Owens vs. Finn Balor – The Beast in the East
Sasha Banks vs. Bayley – NXT Takeover: Brooklyn
Seth Rollins vs. John Cena – SummerSlam 2015
Bayley vs. Sasha Banks – NXT Takeover: Respect
Cesaro vs. Roman Reigns – Raw 11/16/2015
Dean Ambrose vs. Kevin Owens – Royal Rumble 2016
Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura – NXT Takeover: Dallas
The Miz vs. Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens – Extreme Rules 2016
Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles – Extreme Rules 2016

And there’s plenty more to come including the Revival, AJ Styles, and the Cruiserweight Classic. Meanwhile, ROH has a fraction of this quantity in the same time period. If I also want MOTYCs outside WWE ever again, I would never waste my time with ROH. I’d go to NJPW, PWG, Evolve, RPW, Progress, and PWG.

In addition, I sent this email when the Lapsed Fan reviewed Money in the Bank 2011:
Money in the Bank 2011 not only turned out to be an all-time historically and emotionally fantastic wrestling event that changed the game for ALL of professional wrestling, but did for this particular fan as well. This show has a FAR greater legacy than just being fucking orgasmically awesome.

From 2005 through 2011, I was one of the most dedicated, passionate fans of the underground wrestling scene around, many times to an obnoxious, highly arrogant level. With Ring of Honor leading the charge, I had found the future of pro wrestling that WWE seemed no longer capable of providing. WWE wanted to tell me that scrubs such as Mr. Kennedy, Bobby Lashley, Carlito, Kevin Thorne, La Resistance, and Kotaro Suzuki were the future? Fuck off - I'm too busy creaming my pants watching the likes of CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Nigel McGuinness, Samoa Joe, the Briscoes, Low Ki, the Kings of Wrestling, Kevin Steen, El Generico, Generation Next, and so on and so on.

By summer 2011, I had grown tired of WWE's overall direction. From the Miz being overpushed beyond his depth as the top heel in the company rather than the midcard where he comfortably belongs, to Christian's journey to the mountaintop having no time to settle in, I was on the verge of becoming a lapsed/casual WWE viewer. But then CM Punk brought his "Pipebomb" style promo, which he first used in ROH’s Summer of Punk in 2005 (aka The Farewell Tour of the Century), to the mainstream at long last, hitting a grand slam on the microphone.

Punk's rise to the WWE main event scene was vindication for underground wrestling fans such as myself that emphatically preached for years that THIS was the future of professional wrestling. Although there were many other players that helped break down these barriers - some of them in developmental such as Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) and Tyler Black (Seth Rollins), some of them behind the scenes such as Rob Naylor, William Regal, and Joey Mercury - it was Punk who led the charge in FINALLY breaking down the barriers.

In the 5 years since that blistering night in Chicago, we have seen WWE finally get its head out of its ass in the hiring department. No longer are top indy, puro, and lucha names ignorantly shunned, but now are actually sought after. Would we have seen AJ Styles get a "blowaway" (his words) offer from WWE several months ago if it wasn't for Money in the Bank 2011? Would NXT be successfully piggybacking off of SummerSlam and WrestleMania in large venues without Punk breaking the barrier for an influx of top names from the underground and international scenes? Would Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins have closed out back-to-back WrestleManias respectively with the top prize in the entire business, and doing that against more "traditional" WWE stars such as Batista, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, and Roman Reigns?

At the same time as Punk's rise and barrier-breaking, ROH underwent an ownership change in order to survive, being sold by Cary Silkin to Sinclair Broadcast Group. What unfolded was ROH becoming a bland, generic version of itself as it moved into becoming a television product and went cheap, no longer hoarding top names and gritty, mainstream-driven workers on the underground scene. This direction by ROH, which was spearheaded by Jim Cornette, while WWE just crowned CM Punk in his hometown AND Bryan Danielson got a Money in the Bank contract too? It was an easy decision for me.

Instead of becoming a lapsed WWE viewer, the events that unfolded in the summer of 2011 by WWE and ROH had me become a lapsed viewer for the UNDERGROUND wrestling scene, while I have managed to stick with WWE through thick and thin ever since then. For all of WWE's many, many flaws, Money in the Bank 2011 was the powder keg for aLONG overdue shifting of the company's hiring philosophy, with numerous ***+ matches almost every week now, and so many talents I watched cut their teeth finally getting their mainstream break. When also considering that WWE has these matches not just on cable, but also available with the click of a button for online streaming megacards at just $10 a month? Sorry indy wrestling - I'm done spending $15-20 per DVD or Video-On-Demand now.

Even with independent wrestling still thriving and having a heavy congestion of quality in-ring wrestling, it'll never be the same again, and to be blunt - I'm glad. What the business is today is how it should've always been since WCW and ECW died, or at the absolute latest, when ECW was launched as a 3rd brand. The best talents in the world should've NEVER been snubbed by WWE's talent relations. These world-class talents should've NEVER been killing themselves in classic matches in front of dozens or only hundreds of fans, sometimes 1,000+ if they were lucky. These elite performers and personalities should’veNEVER had to settled for shitty developmental contract offers at best. Money in the Bank 2011 can be thanked for this change, and with 5 years to reflect back on it, CM Punk actually deserves every bit of credit that he gives himself. He promised change, and that's what we got.

One more final note: Rich Kraetsch was in attendance for Money in the Bank 2011, and he was so jazzed, so jubilant from what he watched unfold in person, that it led to him finally creating a web site to discuss and analyze the wacky world of pro wrestling. You may be aware of it, but just in case - that site is Voices of Wrestling.
nickdiamante
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by nickdiamante »

JTCole wrote:There's literally several dozen places you can get good wrestling now. Shit, YouTube has a plethora of great and little scene wrestling content.

Just friggin ignore WWE if you want.
I do ignore WWE for the most-part. As I stated earlier, the only real reason I keep tabs on WWE is so I can watch guys like Styles and Steen, and others I loved when they were in ROH and other places.

The point I am trying to make is the actions of the WWE will eventually hurt the industry. If they keep raiding the small guys, then the small guys will go out of business. If the small guys go out of business, then who will create the stars that the WWE needs? The WWE doesn't know how to make their own stars anymore. They're more concerned with the opinions of the shareholders and filling the Network with content. As if we want to watch a bunch of wrestlers driving in a car and cracking jokes.

If they continue this way, yeah... maybe they won't go out of business one day. But they also won't be caring about the PRO WRESTLING fans out there. That's what bothers me, because we are the ones that watched their product through thick and thin.

Yes, I know I'm arguing a losing battle. But damn... WWE is killing something I love. Am I supposed to be happy about that?
indyfan
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by indyfan »

Just want to jump in here.

I agree with Supersonic. My ROH Fandom is exactly like his. I was tired of what WWE was doing in 2006.

Fast forward to today and I feel that way about ROH. I love ROH but I find it hard to get behind them.

On other wrestling forums, ROH is laughed at. Evolve is praised. Hating on WWE in 2017 is funny and sad because what they offer is a steal. They put on great matches on every ppv. And have amazing stuff like CWC.

I just recently finished All Star Extravaganza 2015 that had a 14 min ppv main event. I'm struggling to finish up 2015 and from what I hear 2016 isn't anything to care about.

Blaming WWE is ridiculous. It's ROHS fault and Gabes fault for splitting the indy scene. Difference is Gabe has a much better eye for for talent.

Another thing worth pointing out is how much better guys are outside of ROH. Guys are slugging along in ROH and tearing it up in PWG.

ROHS glory is in 2003-end 2009 and then again in 2010. I enjoyed stuff in 2014 and 2015 as well.

I will always have a soft spot for ROH. They need to change bookers quick and stop letting guys go to Evolve.

I will continue to support and defend them but let's be reasonable here. They are dropping the ball
Last edited by indyfan on Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AlexROH
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by AlexROH »

I find WWE matches pretty overated. I used to like the company, but it isn't my cup of tea anymore. WWE matches don't connect with me and I don't consider them as MOTYCs. However, I understand that there is a lot of people that think in the opposite way. That's fine, it's the great thing about wrestling, everybody love a different thing.

Btw, I know ROH isn't as good as it used to be. I've said this things many times here. But I prefer ROH to WWE. My top promotions to follow would be NJPW, EVOLVE, ROH, PROGRESS, RevPro, AAW and Beyond. I used to love PWG too, but now I can only watch some random matches. A show full of spotty matches is too much for me. At least their shows are always entertaining.
Buzz Sawyer
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by Buzz Sawyer »

nickdiamante wrote:
JTCole wrote:There's literally several dozen places you can get good wrestling now. Shit, YouTube has a plethora of great and little scene wrestling content.

Just friggin ignore WWE if you want.
I do ignore WWE for the most-part. As I stated earlier, the only real reason I keep tabs on WWE is so I can watch guys like Styles and Steen, and others I loved when they were in ROH and other places.

The point I am trying to make is the actions of the WWE will eventually hurt the industry. If they keep raiding the small guys, then the small guys will go out of business. If the small guys go out of business, then who will create the stars that the WWE needs? The WWE doesn't know how to make their own stars anymore. They're more concerned with the opinions of the shareholders and filling the Network with content. As if we want to watch a bunch of wrestlers driving in a car and cracking jokes.

If they continue this way, yeah... maybe they won't go out of business one day. But they also won't be caring about the PRO WRESTLING fans out there. That's what bothers me, because we are the ones that watched their product through thick and thin.

Yes, I know I'm arguing a losing battle. But damn... WWE is killing something I love. Am I supposed to be happy about that?
How come everything is the WWE's "fault" ? There job is to make the most money for their stockholders and corporation, not worry if some fan/fans who follow the indy scene are happy.
Memphis Mark
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by Memphis Mark »

Buzz Sawyer wrote:
nickdiamante wrote:
JTCole wrote:There's literally several dozen places you can get good wrestling now. Shit, YouTube has a plethora of great and little scene wrestling content.

Just friggin ignore WWE if you want.
I do ignore WWE for the most-part. As I stated earlier, the only real reason I keep tabs on WWE is so I can watch guys like Styles and Steen, and others I loved when they were in ROH and other places.

The point I am trying to make is the actions of the WWE will eventually hurt the industry. If they keep raiding the small guys, then the small guys will go out of business. If the small guys go out of business, then who will create the stars that the WWE needs? The WWE doesn't know how to make their own stars anymore. They're more concerned with the opinions of the shareholders and filling the Network with content. As if we want to watch a bunch of wrestlers driving in a car and cracking jokes.

If they continue this way, yeah... maybe they won't go out of business one day. But they also won't be caring about the PRO WRESTLING fans out there. That's what bothers me, because we are the ones that watched their product through thick and thin.

Yes, I know I'm arguing a losing battle. But damn... WWE is killing something I love. Am I supposed to be happy about that?
How come everything is the WWE's "fault" ? There job is to make the most money for their stockholders and corporation, not worry if some fan/fans who follow the indy scene are happy.

Well according to Vince McMahon the WWE is not a wrestling company, it is an entertainment company. Vince does not like traditional wrestling , so he puts out a hybrid sports entertainment product .. The WWE is a vanity promotion , it exists to put the the product McMahon thinks the fans need to see , not what the fans actually want to watch . The money is actually almost secondary to McMahon , the guy loves control . If you want to more more about McMahon and his company , I recommend reading Jerry Jarrett 's autobiography , The Best of Times.

I have always found the WWE product to be unwatchable , for some unknown reason however millions of people seemed to like it . To each their own. Thank god companies like NJPW and ROH still exist out side of McMahon's reach.
rovert
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by rovert »

I don't post here for a few days and things go off a cliff.

lol thinking WWE's in ring quality sucks. lol thinking WWE is primarily the issue with ROH rather than Koff and Delirious.
King of Indy Style
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by King of Indy Style »

AlexROH wrote:I find WWE matches pretty overated. I used to like the company, but it isn't my cup of tea anymore. WWE matches don't connect with me and I don't consider them as MOTYCs. However, I understand that there is a lot of people that think in the opposite way. That's fine, it's the great thing about wrestling, everybody love a different thing.

Btw, I know ROH isn't as good as it used to be. I've said this things many times here. But I prefer ROH to WWE. My top promotions to follow would be NJPW, EVOLVE, ROH, PROGRESS, RevPro, AAW and Beyond. I used to love PWG too, but now I can only watch some random matches. A show full of spotty matches is too much for me. At least their shows are always entertaining.

Agreed regarding WWE matches. Just not on the level of top notch matches that you see in New Japan or whatever promotion. Hell. I think most ROH matches are better than WWE matches. A match like Lethal vs Briscoe from BITW 2015 has been better than most WWE matches I remember watching in the past year or so, which isn't a lot. Especially when you see guys like AJ Styles, Kevin Steen and Shinsuke Nakamura watered down. I personally don't like or get it myself, but if others do, more power to them.
Memphis Mark
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by Memphis Mark »

rovert wrote:I don't post here for a few days and things go off a cliff.

lol thinking WWE's in ring quality sucks. lol thinking WWE is primarily the issue with ROH rather than Koff and Delirious.
I think the WWF /WWE products sucks. I have thought the WWWF sucked when the older McMahon was the owner , it only got worse when his long, lost son bought the old man out. That is only my opinion . If people enjoy watching McMahon 's product more power to them. I don't care what you say about match quality or anything else . I been watching wrestling since 1970 and never followed the McMahon family promotion because I found it unbearable to my eye balls. You are kidding yourself if you think McMahon cares about match quality , he loves low brow humor not work rate.. Memphis , Florida , Georgia , Crockett , World Class , Mid-South , Portland , WCW , Smokey Mountain , ECW , ROH , NJPW , NOAH and even the AWA all better than McMahon .

I know the WWE is not the issue with ROH . It is a front office issue, not a WWE issue , money issue or anything but a paranoid booker and accountant who don not know how to run a wrestling company . SBGI close at over $ 36 per share today an all time high . The WWE is not the problem , it is mismanagement .
rovert
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by rovert »

Memphis Mark wrote: I think the WWF /WWE products sucks.
Stopped reading here. Who still does this and expects their opinion to be taken seriously?

Titan Sports/Capital Sports/Vince Jr presents a very strong in product. Their 2016 PPV presentations have largely been critically acclaimed. Hope you watch Elimination Chamber via closed circuit good chap.
rovert
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Re: ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

Post by rovert »

King of Indy Style wrote: Agreed regarding WWE matches. Just not on the level of top notch matches that you see in New Japan or whatever promotion. Hell. I think most ROH matches are better than WWE matches. A match like Lethal vs Briscoe from BITW 2015 has been better than most WWE matches I remember watching in the past year or so, which isn't a lot. Especially when you see guys like AJ Styles, Kevin Steen and Shinsuke Nakamura watered down. I personally don't like or get it myself, but if others do, more power to them.


Explain this watered down to me. Interested in your insight.
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