ALL PURPOSE CONTRACT STATUS/POTENTIAL DEPARTURES THREAD

[YimYac]

Meltzer reported juice told roh officials that he was upset about reports that he didn't want to work for roh anymore it sounds like the wrestling community is turned on roh because aew is around and people could be making up stuff to make Roh look bad

Becomes easier for people to make false stories now

[BurningHammer]

It really depends where Meltzer is getting his info, if it's ROH side then I can see that ROH would obviously make sure the story gets burried and state everything is fine, when it actually isn't.

Hopefully the report is true and everything is ok, I still think a number of people could be pissed at ROH for what it did at MSG and they should be, but to never work for the promotion again seems a little drastic unless backstage really is that toxic.

Either way I hope it's all becoming water under the bridge and we will have everyone back in ROH again.

[monster mafia]

*The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that there has been a lot of talk among ROH officials about Rush, as his contract with the company expires at the end of the year.

It has been reported earlier this year that Andrade warned both Rush and Dragon Lee against coming to WWE, as he was not happy about not being used in NXT and WWE. However, Andrade is said to be happy now, has a relationship with Charlotte Flair, is getting pushed and is making money. So he would no longer have a negative attitude about his friend coming to WWE to join him. And WWE has been interested in Rush for a long time.

Of course, even if Rush were interested, he’s still under contract to CMLL until early 2021

*The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that due to Juice Robinson moving to Japan, he is no longer scheduled for any future shows with Ring of Honor. ROH is hoping to bring him in this fall, but if he’s living in Japan by then, he’ll likely work every tour in Japan.

He also told ROH officials that he was “very upset” with reports that he didn’t like working there.

[maxx_powerz]

lol at Juice being upset about reports that he didn't like working ROH while making zero commitment to come back and work ROH. Feels like NJPW called Juice into the principal's office and made him apologize against his will.

I like Juice, but i think he's missing a good opportunity. Look at a majority of the NJPW in ROH over the past few years, Jay White, Ropongi 3K/ Tempura Boys, Evil, Takahashi, all return to NJPW with great success. It's not like he's Okada or Niato, and not like he was a major star in the US prior to NJPW. Guess whatever floats his boat though.

This is also my feeling. Juice has done alright for himself, but forget Okada or Naito, he's not even at Kenny or Cody's level. Juice working a 2014-15 AJ Styles type schedule as a special attraction like Kenny Omega was supposed to after AJ left (but never really did) would have worked out nicely for both sides, I think.

[Wilson]

I like Juice, but i think he's missing a good opportunity. Look at a majority of the NJPW in ROH over the past few years, Jay White, Ropongi 3K/ Tempura Boys, Evil, Takahashi, all return to NJPW with great success. It's not like he's Okada or Niato, and not like he was a major star in the US prior to NJPW. Guess whatever floats his boat though.

This is also my feeling. Juice has done alright for himself, but forget Okada or Naito, he's not even at Kenny or Cody's level. Juice working a 2014-15 AJ Styles type schedule as a special attraction like Kenny Omega was supposed to after AJ left (but never really did) would have worked out nicely for both sides, I think.

On Montana's quote, RPG3K, EVIL, Hiromu, and Jay White all had young lion excursions in ROH and then had entirely changed characters with fresh pushes when they returned. Juice is just parachuting in like some of the old Bullet Club guys used to.

AJ, Cody, Kenny, and The Young Bucks were in my opinion bigger stars in ROH than Okada or Naito because of their affiltiation to Bullet Club. (In fact, I think a lot of ROH's struggles now hinges on them having very infrequent access to the Bullet Club.) To some people, it probably goes without saying that the current ROH ecosystem fails to make stars. Juice looks like he's seeing that, and that the travel to split between promotions just doesn't think the work is worth it. Remember how hard KUSHIDA was working as the TV champion in 2017? During his entire run, it felt like he barely got more over. Why should Juice be optimistic about working here if he sees contracting audiences and he knows the challenges to become a star in ROH (not to mention him wanting to make a permanent move to Japan)?

[maxx_powerz]

I like Juice, but i think he's missing a good opportunity. Look at a majority of the NJPW in ROH over the past few years, Jay White, Ropongi 3K/ Tempura Boys, Evil, Takahashi, all return to NJPW with great success. It's not like he's Okada or Niato, and not like he was a major star in the US prior to NJPW. Guess whatever floats his boat though.

This is also my feeling. Juice has done alright for himself, but forget Okada or Naito, he's not even at Kenny or Cody's level. Juice working a 2014-15 AJ Styles type schedule as a special attraction like Kenny Omega was supposed to after AJ left (but never really did) would have worked out nicely for both sides, I think.

On Montana's quote, RPG3K, EVIL, Hiromu, and Jay White all had young lion excursions in ROH and then had entirely changed characters with fresh pushes when they returned. Juice is just parachuting in like some of the old Bullet Club guys used to.

AJ, Cody, Kenny, and The Young Bucks were in my opinion bigger stars in ROH than Okada or Naito because of their affiltiation to Bullet Club. (In fact, I think a lot of ROH's struggles now hinges on them having very infrequent access to the Bullet Club.) To some people, it probably goes without saying that the current ROH ecosystem fails to make stars. Juice looks like he's seeing that, and that the travel to split between promotions just doesn't think the work is worth it. Remember how hard KUSHIDA was working as the TV champion in 2017? During his entire run, it felt like he barely got more over. Why should Juice be optimistic about working here if he sees contracting audiences and he knows the challenges to become a star in ROH (not to mention him wanting to make a permanent move to Japan)?

It's a fair point since I don't know how (or if) Juice figures into the long term NJPW plans, and even if he doesn't maybe he just likes living in Japan. But there's been a few guys who worked part time in ROH while working full time in NJPW (Bucks & Shelley to a lesser extent, he probably just did a handful of shows) and then were able to segue that into full time ROH spots when NJPW stopped booking them as much or they wanted to travel less. Just seems like it would have been a good fit.

[monster mafia]

Observer : Cobb and Bandido ROH futures are up in the air.

[Lynx]

Aren't their contracts ending at the same time as Rush's? So I guess it is good that his future is not up in the air?

[maxx_powerz]

I think the rumor is Rush is under contract until December 2020. I would guess that based on when they debuted that Bandido is probably signed through the end of this year whereas Cobb is probably done sooner, but *shrug*

[monster mafia]

WON: "There is a lot of talk on what happens at the end of the year when both Jeff Cobb and Bandido become free agents. The key to staying with ROH for both of them is the New Japan connection as both love going there"

[BurningHammer]

WON: "There is a lot of talk on what happens at the end of the year when both Jeff Cobb and Bandido become free agents. The key to staying with ROH for both of them is the New Japan connection as both love going there"

I;m sure this isn't going to be everyones reaction but if they only want to be in ROH for the New Japan connection, I am ok for them to leave, I want people who are commited and wanting to make ROH grow and get better. Give me a roster full of Taven's and Lethal's who have done the hard yards are willing to go that extra mile. The best thing ROH can do is get away from New Japan the Elite, even if it means going back to the 'Bingo Hall' days just so that there are 500 ROH fans that give a shit about the product and not chanting Woop Woop just for Marty.

[BurningHammer]

I think the rumor is Rush is under contract until December 2020. I would guess that based on when they debuted that Bandido is probably signed through the end of this year whereas Cobb is probably done sooner, but *shrug*

Yeah that's meant to the scenario for RUSH.

[Lynx]

I;m sure this isn't going to be everyones reaction but if they only want to be in ROH for the New Japan connection, I am ok for them to leave, I want people who are commited and wanting to make ROH grow and get better. Give me a roster full of Taven's and Lethal's who have done the hard yards are willing to go that extra mile. The best thing ROH can do is get away from New Japan the Elite, even if it means going back to the 'Bingo Hall' days just so that there are 500 ROH fans that give a shit about the product and not chanting Woop Woop just for Marty.

I kinda wonder if RoH higher ups aren't thinking about it as well. Where exactly Bandido and Cobb are going in RoH?
Cobb had a TV title reign that didn't really matter in grand scheme of things and end goal was obviously to put Taven over. What exactly is he going to do after he returns from Japan? I don't see any clear program for him, maybe a rematch against Taylor? But other than that?
Bandido does his stuff in multimans, but when it comes to high profile singles matches, he is really just putting over other guys. I thought that Lifeblood might be getting six-man titles from VE, but that looks to be not the case.
And then you look at other people that RoH hired this year. Rush, Haskins, Williams, PCO, Brody. All of them got way more attention than Cobb and Bandido did.

I guess I hope that this is a problem that RoH is aware of and it likely is going to solve itself with time.

[AlexROH]

Rush isn't gonna leave, he has a contract with CMLL until 2021.

Also, per WON:

"A number of ROH stars are headed here between now and the end of the year based on the strengthening of the business relationship and more CMLL guys going to ROH. This is part of the changes Sofia Alonso put into place as one of her first moves was to contact ROH and wanting to expand their working agreement. She will be meeting with officials from ROH in late August about more working together"

[BurningHammer]

I;m sure this isn't going to be everyones reaction but if they only want to be in ROH for the New Japan connection, I am ok for them to leave, I want people who are commited and wanting to make ROH grow and get better. Give me a roster full of Taven's and Lethal's who have done the hard yards are willing to go that extra mile. The best thing ROH can do is get away from New Japan the Elite, even if it means going back to the 'Bingo Hall' days just so that there are 500 ROH fans that give a shit about the product and not chanting Woop Woop just for Marty.

I kinda wonder if RoH higher ups aren't thinking about it as well. Where exactly Bandido and Cobb are going in RoH?
Cobb had a TV title reign that didn't really matter in grand scheme of things and end goal was obviously to put Taven over. What exactly is he going to do after he returns from Japan? I don't see any clear program for him, maybe a rematch against Taylor? But other than that?
Bandido does his stuff in multimans, but when it comes to high profile singles matches, he is really just putting over other guys. I thought that Lifeblood might be getting six-man titles from VE, but that looks to be not the case.
And then you look at other people that RoH hired this year. Rush, Haskins, Williams, PCO, Brody. All of them got way more attention than Cobb and Bandido did.

I guess I hope that this is a problem that RoH is aware of and it likely is going to solve itself with time.

The thing is Cobb has spent a lot of time in Japan this year on off and hes just been treading water because ROH really couldn't do much as he was heading off here and there, plus you have the G1. You could tell in his performances too he didn't want to get Injured and didn't really push himself either, then you had the rushed title match which did nothing for no one.

I hope ROH has something for Cobb when he comes back but if he is going to split his time with ROH and New Japan then there is just no point in giving him something like the ROH title or meaningful because the time away hurts the product. I'm happy if he wants to still come in and you know create that special match like PWG do but other than that, you know just find someone else worth investing in say like Bear Country and help out the tag team and singles divisions at the same time.

I still think LifeBlood are winning the six man titles, the ECK Files mentioned they would be getting a title match soon, plus Bandido did get the pin on the Marty in that match so it's a strong moment for him, in 'Booking' Terms. Wrestlers are becoming like fans in that they can't take there time with things, Bandido isn't going to be hurt by these losses you can tell the fans are still with him regardless. What I would do is lengthen the rivalery with VE and have a few singles matches which would include Bandido getting a big singles win against Marty, while you split the difference of wins with VE and Lifeblood in singles matches. You then have LifeBlood win the 3 man titles and there all on their way, then say bring in Mistico to team with Dragon Lee and RUSH then go with a program for the three man titles with LifeBlood and those three including a singles win for Bandido against Lee and you have a very hot set of wrestlers.

[BurningHammer]

Rush isn't gonna leave, he has a contract with CMLL until 2021.

Also, per WON:

"A number of ROH stars are headed here between now and the end of the year based on the strengthening of the business relationship and more CMLL guys going to ROH. This is part of the changes Sofia Alonso put into place as one of her first moves was to contact ROH and wanting to expand their working agreement. She will be meeting with officials from ROH in late August about more working together"

Great news, it's a relationship that makes a lot of sense, CMLL just needs the wrestlers to back up the relationship now.

[Chrisvegas27]

According to Dave Meltzer there is high demand for Roh Sumner Supercard

[Thelone]

I;m sure this isn't going to be everyones reaction but if they only want to be in ROH for the New Japan connection, I am ok for them to leave, I want people who are commited and wanting to make ROH grow and get better.

I've said it over and over, but those things aren't mutually exclusive. ROH isn't WWE or NJPW or even AEW. Hell, people using ROH as a stepping stone has been the case since day 1, but you didn't see Danielson or Punk or Joe or whoever stuck in the midcard doing jobs to CW Anderson or other ECW/WCW rejects because "those guys will never leave". ROH used those guys who had the drive to show their worth to push the brand as something worth watching and different than whatever WWE and TNA were doing at the time. Nowadays, they use those guys who could make a difference to push mediocre-to-fine wrestlers no one cares about.

Give me a roster full of Taven's and Lethal's who have done the hard yards are willing to go that extra mile.

They're most importantly a bunch of okay guys no one is particularly interested in outside of the ROH bubble. Once again, there's a reason those guys aren't somewhere else right now and this has nothing to do with them being loyal to ROH. Don't you think a guy like Lethal would jump ship tomorrow if WWE or AEW would throw a shit-ton of money at him? But they never did, because he isn't special, just like Matt Taven and Silas Young and Shane Taylor and Kenny King and Alex Shelley just to name a totally random few.

The best thing ROH can do is get away from New Japan the Elite, even if it means going back to the 'Bingo Hall' days just so that there are 500 ROH fans that give a shit about the product and not chanting Woop Woop just for Marty.

They should get away from New Japan who buried them six miles under for five years while they were taking it in the ass with a smile on their face, but there's no reason to believe that things will change overnight when they're still doing the same mistakes they were doing 4-5 years ago that made them so reliant on NJPW in the first place.

[Lynx]

I don't really agree that it is same as always. I remember reading reports that Cobb signed with RoH in the first place because he wanted NJPW bookings. Back in the day nobody thought that signing with RoH might result in WWE or TNA contract.

[maxx_powerz]

WON: "There is a lot of talk on what happens at the end of the year when both Jeff Cobb and Bandido become free agents. The key to staying with ROH for both of them is the New Japan connection as both love going there"

I;m sure this isn't going to be everyones reaction but if they only want to be in ROH for the New Japan connection, I am ok for them to leave, I want people who are commited and wanting to make ROH grow and get better. Give me a roster full of Taven's and Lethal's who have done the hard yards are willing to go that extra mile. The best thing ROH can do is get away from New Japan the Elite, even if it means going back to the 'Bingo Hall' days just so that there are 500 ROH fans that give a shit about the product and not chanting Woop Woop just for Marty.

The problem is and has been NXT. Nobody has ever seen ROH as the top of the mountain and that's ok. But most top guys were putting in five plus years with ROH before leaving for WWE. Danielson, Generico, Steen, Cole, O'Reilly, Strong etc. But within the past few years NXT has gotten super aggressive, literally signing more guys than they know what to do with (paging Keith Lee, as one example). Meanwhile, while NXT was getting aggressive, ROH was conducting business as usual and started losing guys to NXT before they've even made it halfway up the card. Cedric, Ciampa, ACH, Lio Rush, Dijak. Most of those guys had a six month EVOLVE sabbatical or whatever between ROH and NXT, but it's pretty clear they left ROH based on handshake agreements with NXT.

So now we're in a situation where ROH either have to sign mediocre and / or older talent that NXT doesn't want, or they have to realize that they are only going to have a 1-3 year window with up and coming talent, select a few guys at a time and push them hard. I understand your argument, but I feel like MLW & Impact have already covered so much of the "guys NXT doesn't want" territory that ROH is better off just signing whatever new talent has buzz coming out of BOLA every year for 1 or 2 years and turning over their roster faster than they have been before.

Ultimately, both options kind of suck.