If Kyle was champ?

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:29 am

187_Joeism wrote:
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
187_Joeism wrote:Fanbase is smart enough to know how wrestling works in 2016 i think and i say it again is Kyle losing against the IWGP Heavyweight Champ, not some dude in the midcard.
By your standards then, wins and losses mean nothing. It's better to lose to an top guy, then win and gain character momentum against a mid-card guy, or even a legend like Liger. Okay.
If the alternative is not having the match then yeah 100%.

At least for me: dream match > pretermined wins and losses

But it already happened. So how is it still a dream match?

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:32 am

Naito last year and this year are nothing alike, last year it wasn´t a dream match, this year is because Naito transformed/elevated himself. LOS INGOBERNABLES´Naito is one of the best thing going in wrestling.

For example is they are going to book Goto or a guy little him vs Kyle and Gedo doesn´t let Goto lose i agree with you that it would hurt Kyle losing to him.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:39 am

187_Joeism wrote:Naito last year and this year are nothing alike, last year it wasn´t a dream match, this year is because Naito transformed/elevated himself. LOS INGOBERNABLES´Naito is one of the best thing going in wrestling.

For example is they are going to book Goto or a guy little him vs Kyle and Gedo doesn´t let Goto lose i agree with you that it would hurt Kyle losing to him.

You're proving my point. Gedo booked Naito strong to credibly take the title off of Okada. He was, you know, protected. Delirious is doing the exact opposite for O'Reilly. If you want to book O'Reilly strong you don't have him doing the honors for Naito. You don't even book the match. The only way that this match works is if O'Reilly takes Naito to a time limit draw. Since we know that's not happening, this yet another momentum killer for O'Reilly, especially after his win against Cole.

Do you truly believe that Delirious has done right in how he's booked O'Reilly?

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:41 am

Gedo didn´t do a thing with Naito, Naito got over on his own, Gedo tried to push him with the Stardust gimmick and it flooped. Naito went to Mexico and reinvented himself.

I think Delirious could have done a better job with Kyle to be honest, he relied on him beating Cole as a way for him a serious singles wrestler, i would add to that more singles wins. No reason why Kyle can´t beat Kenny King, ACH or BJ Whitmer in the house shows instead of doing reDRagon tags for example.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:45 am

187_Joeism wrote:Gedo didn´t do a thing with Naito, Naito got over on his own, Gedo tried to push him with the Stardust gimmick and it flooped. Naito went to Mexico and reinvented himself.

I understand that. But Gedo, as booker, determined what to do with Naito after he came back. He could've put the IC or NEVER title on him, but saw that, "Hey, this guy is getting over let's send him to the moon." He didn't ignore what Naito was doing, instead utilized it as an asset. Naito was in no position to walk into Gedo's office and demand the IWGP title.

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:46 am

Nakamura, Styles & Ibushi leaving also helped with that but yeah the push was coming for Naito sooner than later.

Also Naito lost at Wrestle Kingdom against Goto so is not that Gedo always keeped him strong.

Lone Wolf · Post by **Lone Wolf** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:21 am

naito match 2nd match done nothing for Kyle, how is this supposed to make him a ROH contender for the main prize. Sure he did not look like a jobber against Naito but he hardly looked like he was going to pull off a win. I get that Naito is the igwg champ and get they want to protect him but at least have Kyle counter his new finisher a few times,and get get a few roll ups to make it seem a unlikely win was about to happen. Naito was comfatable in his so called dream match win

Burnside · Post by **Burnside** » Tue May 10, 2016 5:26 am

It was really sad when Kyle jobbed to Naito on the PPV and the announcers were desperately trying to convince us that the match somehow meant that O'Reilly "showed he could challenge for the IWGP title" and "proved he can do anything he wants." That's...not the the message I took away, guys.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Tue May 10, 2016 12:27 pm

Burnside wrote:It was really sad when Kyle jobbed to Naito on the PPV and the announcers were desperately trying to convince us that the match somehow meant that O'Reilly "showed he could challenge for the IWGP title" and "proved he can do anything he wants." That's...not the the message I took away, guys.

Yep. Kyle O'Reilly is doomed as a singles guy right now.

Vanilla Gorilla · Post by **Vanilla Gorilla** » Wed May 11, 2016 4:00 pm

I'd be doing the same thing with Kyle and with Fish. Have them beating people with their submissions left and right. Taking a few guys and putting them out for a couple weeks. Get their holds feared to get them over, to get their skills over, to get them over.

Then don't have them lose for 5 or 6th months. Now you've got one that's built up the TV title and one that's a credible challenger and you've got a couple real solid badass "My hands are my weapons" characters.

Coming off that Awesome finish with Cole at SCOH day 2 - they are flushing away Kyle's momentum.

If Kyle was champ?

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