If Kyle was champ?

Lone Wolf · Post by **Lone Wolf** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:42 am

How would you think he would be booked? as a fighting champion for example. Also any chance of it it being somewhat in the vein of Danielson/Joe,nigel etc(not for once saying he is better then them) or is their no chance whatsoever of that type of style from a champion.

supersonic · Post by **supersonic** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:04 am

He and Strong are the best chances of having a consistent MOTYC quality champ. The roster would need to be treated as contenders up and down.

monster mafia · Post by **monster mafia** » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:18 pm

a reallly strong reign,quality matches,like dragon..a fighting champion

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:30 am

This is an interesting question. There is no question O'Reilly has a superb work rate. Left to his own devices, Kyle is capable of putting out consistently good to great matches. His showdown with KUSHIDA in the finals of the Super Juniors was completely underrated. So the problem lies within. Can Kyle overcome shitty booking?

Brada · Post by **Brada** » Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:34 am

I think now that the program with Cole is done, he will get booked better...hope so anyway.

Northwoods_Nightmare · Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:48 pm

I see quality defenses, but whether his reign is memorable or not ultimately relies on the booking. Even if you're having 4-5 star matches every night, if they're just random matches against random challengers it won't have the same legacy as having an intriguing feud.
If he eventually wins hopefully they can put together an interesting rivalry.

I also think that Kyle is definitely a wrestler that benefits from being given more time and longer matches, so if he wins I also hope that he's allowed that.

dhads7161 · Post by **dhads7161** » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:09 pm

It would suck because he's nothing more than a midcarder even in ROH.

Northwoods_Nightmare · Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:18 pm

dhads7161 wrote:It would suck because he's nothing more than a midcarder even in ROH.

I've seen O'Reilly main event a number of shows outside ROH and I've never been disappointed. And when he doesn't main event, he's usually in one of the best if not the best match of the night.
I think the perception people seem to have of him being a midcarder stems from the fact that that's how he's been booked in ROH. With proper angles and wins that could be turned around.

Thelone · Post by **Thelone** » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:50 pm

O'Reilly was always portrayed as the weak link of reDRagon and even after they moved away from the tag division, they barely did anything to build him up as a threat and a credible challenger. Even when they finally seem to go in the right direction with a bunch of fairly high-profile wins, they go back to job him out because #TheRub and such horseshit that did nothing for him before.

Jcutter · Post by **Jcutter** » Sat May 07, 2016 8:57 am

He needs to be built up as a dominant finisher before putting the title on him. Like has been mentioned, his time with ReDragon, while entertaining, weakened him in some ways. He needs some dominant submission wins and even a few KO's. By doing that, he can be booked like Davey Richards was, as a legit MMA type tough guy.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 9:23 am

Victory over Cole helped cement that. But, he's now going to face Naito and lose. Typical booking with O'Reilly. One step forward and a mile backwards.

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 9:41 am

Losing against Naito does nothing to hurt Kyle, if he loses let´s say Roddy THAT would hurt him.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 9:45 am

187_Joeism wrote:Losing against Naito does nothing to hurt Kyle, if he loses let´s say Roddy THAT would hurt him.

How do you figure? Instead of booking him against the IWGP champion, book him against a guy that Gedo will actually let lose to him, and have him do it convincingly. How can the fans take O'Reilly seriously as the ROH World Champion by having him lose to Naito? He'll be looked at as second best. Is that how you want your promotion to be looked at?

At least throw him in against Goto or Liger and have him win. Looks a lot better than having O'Reilly lose to Naito.

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 9:52 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
187_Joeism wrote:Losing against Naito does nothing to hurt Kyle, if he loses let´s say Roddy THAT would hurt him.
How do you figure? Instead of booking him against the IWGP champion, book him against a guy that Gedo will actually let lose to him, and have him do it convincingly. How can the fans take O'Reilly seriously as the ROH World Champion by having him lose to Naito? He'll be looked at as second best. Is that how you want your promotion to be looked at?

At least throw him in against Goto or Liger and have him win. Looks a lot better than having O'Reilly lose to Naito.

Why? I prefer Naito vs Kyle than having Kyle vs Liger or Kyle vs Goto just so you can give Kyle can have a win.

You are never going to get Naito vs Kyle in New Japan because of the weight class so is a legit dream match that you can book. Do you really think fans care that Kyle is going to lose against Naito if they can get a good match out of it?

New Japan is a higher company than ROH, everybody knows that and that´s why the relationship helps ROH.

ROH should give Kyle singles wins going foward if they want him to be taken seriously when he wins the title, they did that in Dallas, have him beat Elgin, Roddy and more in the next shows but i don´t think the crossover shows should be used for that over doing dream matches.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 9:57 am

But why should it be okay for O'Reilly to lose to Naito? It's okay for the perception that ROH is second class? How does that help future business? Fans are just going to come out for shows featuring NJPW talent only sooner or later, because, hey they're the bigger stars.

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:02 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:But why should it be okay for O'Reilly to lose to Naito? It's okay for the perception that ROH is second class? How does that help future business? Fans are just going to come out for shows featuring NJPW talent only sooner or later, because, hey they're the bigger stars.

I don´t care who wins if i get a dream match out of it, and let´s be serious Kyle is not going to look bad for losing against the IWGP Heavyweight Champion. Naito IS a bigger star, same with Tanahashi and same with Okada, i don´t know why deny the fans a great match because of politics.

If they let the opportunity to book dream matches pass because of politics of who will win or who will lose, that would make me complain about a lot.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:06 am

187_Joeism wrote:
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:But why should it be okay for O'Reilly to lose to Naito? It's okay for the perception that ROH is second class? How does that help future business? Fans are just going to come out for shows featuring NJPW talent only sooner or later, because, hey they're the bigger stars.
I don´t care who wins if i get a dream match out of it, and let´s be serious Kyle is not going to look bad for losing against the IWGP Heavyweight Champion. Naito IS a bigger star, same with Tanahashi and same with Okada, i don´t know why deny the fans a great match because of politics.

This isn't just about politics, this is also about fanbase perception.

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:07 am

Fanbase is smart enough to know how wrestling works in 2016 i think and i say it again is Kyle losing against the IWGP Heavyweight Champ, not some dude in the midcard.

Mr. Mojo Risin · Post by **Mr. Mojo Risin** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:19 am

187_Joeism wrote:Fanbase is smart enough to know how wrestling works in 2016 i think and i say it again is Kyle losing against the IWGP Heavyweight Champ, not some dude in the midcard.

By your standards then, wins and losses mean nothing. It's better to lose to an top guy, then win and gain character momentum against a mid-card guy, or even a legend like Liger. Okay.

187_Joeism · Post by **187_Joeism** » Sun May 08, 2016 10:24 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
187_Joeism wrote:Fanbase is smart enough to know how wrestling works in 2016 i think and i say it again is Kyle losing against the IWGP Heavyweight Champ, not some dude in the midcard.
By your standards then, wins and losses mean nothing. It's better to lose to an top guy, then win and gain character momentum against a mid-card guy, or even a legend like Liger. Okay.

If the alternative is not having the match then yeah 100%.

At least for me: dream match > predetermined wins and losses

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