Official Global Wars/War Of The Worlds 2016 Super Thread

[187_Joeism]

They can make Adam Page important with him being with Bucks/Cole, after all the shitty things he did lately i don´t trust Delirious to do it right now but if Page beat The Briscoes & others they can make him an important part of the company.

If they give him the ball i trust that Page can run with it for sure.

I thought this until that Street Fight with Whitmer in San Antonio. I know the finish was rushed, but nothing that happened in the fifteen minutes before that was particularly good, either.

Jay Briscoe vs Adam Page was great, BJ Whitmer vs Adam Page was bad, do the math.

I saw Page wrestle at PWX a lot and he can go for sure. If they push him with this he is not going to look bad i think.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I think history will look back at this as the equivalent of Waterloo for Delirious.

[monster mafia]

from twitter

"ROH War of the Worlds show tonight was a LOT of fun. Say what you want about ROH's booking but the shows are still fun to go to and watch!"

[supersonic]

Terrific snowflakes going around for tonight.

[Fawrules]

For the most part the house show/VODs are typically fun-very good, that's never really been the issue. It's been the PPVs and to a lesser extent the TV that have suffered of late due to booking/timing issues. Which unfortunately for the company's current perception is the product they're putting out to the vast majority of its viewers.

[dhads7161]

How did the Addiction end up in the match with War Machine? Weren't they wrestling Gedo & Okada?

[BurningHammer]

I think with any heel faction it's been hard to build any true "heat" over the last 10 years because the fans have changed so much and the only couple I can think of in ROH that actually got real heel heat were the original Embassy, mainly thanks to Rave and at their height The Age Of The Fall, now considering the number of factions over the years in ROH I am possibly missing some out because I didn't see the impact some others have had though. With all that being said considering what happened last night and if it continues to build and build and fans start to get sick of their stick and actions this might be the time where heat really can be built, all three of Nick, Matt and Cole just can deliver those promos and nuances that can really Jimmy Rave like. If anything the workers in this group that can make the in ring product great that couldn't be said for SCUM especially.

It's a bit of a catch twenty two with Page, on one hand I wish he hadn't gone through what ended being a bit of mess with the Decade but then if he hadn't Page might not be at a point where he could be elevated into this position and it make some sense. If they do go with Page and the Briscoe's then I see that as a great way to build him up properly, giving him guys that can work and guide him through the ring a bit more subtly than BJ I can see him succeeding.

As a caveat I don't know if they have thrown Roddy out of Mount Rushmore as last I saw they have been eluding to Roddy miss trusting Cole so it might be that they are making the Bullet Club the main faction in both companies, which would could be really interesting for future matches both in ROH and PWG, and maybe a future crossover to help both.

It's not the best idea going from War Machine to The Addiction especially how the Addiction have been booked recently but "others" may see it as a better way to give War Machine more time to be comfortable with each other and in the main tag team picture, there are just certain times when Hanson especially just looks a bit uncomfortable timing wise and in the limelight so to speak so maybe taking the tag titles away from them will help them or simply its to give them a new tag team to feud with and build a whole story around though they really didn't have to change the titles over. I do hope it's not just Quickfire booking to just push through the idea that anything can happen at these shows and you should come and watch but that will work for some.

Overall it sounds like the show delivered especially in the ring and for ROH that has always been important and can hide many facets of many wrestling promotions.

Just one thing, considering that ROH has always had the problem with relying on import guys I don't again know why it's suddenly the worse thing in the world.

[Montana]

Star ratings

- Kamaitachi vs Will Ferrara (Dark Match) 2.5

- ACH & Matt Sydal vs. Silas Young & The Beer City Bruiser 3.0

- Roderick Strong vs. Lio Rush 2.5

War Machine vs. Okada & Gedo 3.5

- KUSHIDA vs. Dalton Castle 3.75

- Hiroshi Tanahashi & "Unbreakable" Michael Elgin vs. The All-Night Express 3.0

- ROH World TV Champion Tomohiro Ishii vs. Moose (with Stokely Hathaway) 3.25

- War Machine vs. Daniels / Frankie - 2.5

- ROH World Champion Jay Lethal & IWGP Heavyweight Champion Tetsuya Naito vs. reDRagon 3.75

- ROH vs .Bullet Club - 4.0 (Action packed match... more a of a fun brawl)


Thoughts... Fun ROH show. None of the matches were awful. None seemed to go too long. No epic matches. I've noticed that it seems there is a lack of true heels / faces now. The fans don't want to boo bullet club. Probably the biggest ROH in dearborn crowd. Looked like Moose/ Rowe got shook up after their matches.

If anyone has any questions let me know.

[roh2002fan]

How did the Addiction end up in the match with War Machine? Weren't they wrestling Gedo & Okada?

War Machine beat Okada and Gedo, then The Addiction came out and challenged them to a title match

[Wilson]

It looks like War Machine lost the belts to The Addiction so that War Machine could lose to a heel team without being booed. Changing the titles certainly seems like an audible. I’m not sure if there is a team that should be holding the belts at the moment other than the Bucks. War Machine/The Briscoes was a good match, but it was extremely evident that The Briscoes carried Hanson and Rowe throughout. Perhaps the War Machine experiment is now over?

Things are in very rough shape. Seeing most of the babyfaces less over than they were last summer is depressing. I think Castle is the only exception; O’Reilly and Fish desperately struggle to get reactions now.

Putting Adam Cole in the main event angle without any build felt insulting. ROH is just leveraging the good faith built into Cole/The Bucks/Bullet Club from PWG and NJPW. Positioning Cole vs. Lethal as the main event at BITW impresses me as ROH’s third PPV main event in a row where the booker cornered themselves to create a title match. It reeks of contrivance and clumsiness and improper build.

I don’t know how much longer they can keep booking PPV main events at this point. ROH already needs the reboot they received in 2013.

[Burnside]

I'm usually among the first to criticize, but I have to say I'm not bothered by what seem to be the two biggest points of contention coming out of last night's show.

Regardless of the PPV match with the Briscoes (a match that worked entirely because of the Briscoes), War Machine was not the least bit over and their title run was a flop. I'm glad the belts are off them.

Adding Adam Page to the Bullet Club doesn't bother me either. He is very talented and was spinning his wheels and floundering as a babyface curtain-jerker. He showed during the latter portion of the Decade run that he has potential as a heel. Hopefully he's not just there to eat all the pins when the Bullet Club needs to job (but he probably is).

I think the bigger issue is the alleged top heels in ROH are in reality the top faces, and the alleged top faces are lame and have no chance of getting cheered. God knows SOMETHING needed to happen in ROH, but I don't think booking the Bullet Club as the NWO is a good long-term plan, because the thing about the NWO is that it killed all of WCW's babyfaces stone dead. The same thing seems very likely to happen here. And world champ Jay Lethal looks absolutely dead in the water right now.

I'm personally getting tired of the Young Bucks. But I don't think ROH has any team that is going to get cheered against the Bucks, or any singles wrestler that is going to get cheered against Adam Cole. So why didn't they make an angle where the Bullet Club are the top babyfaces? They could have gone with the House of Truth/Los Ingobernables alliance as the top heels with a few more ROH guys added to that group.

[Big Red Machine]

I think the bigger issue is the alleged top heels in ROH are in reality the top faces, and the alleged top faces are lame and have no chance of getting cheered. God knows SOMETHING needed to happen in ROH, but I don't think booking the Bullet Club as the NWO is a good long-term plan, because the thing about the NWO is that it killed all of WCW's babyfaces stone dead. The same thing seems very likely to happen here. And world champ Jay Lethal looks absolutely dead in the water right now.

I'm personally getting tired of the Young Bucks. But I don't think ROH has any team that is going to get cheered against the Bucks, or any singles wrestler that is going to get cheered against Adam Cole. So why didn't they make an angle where the Bullet Club are the top babyfaces? They could have gone with the House of Truth/Los Ingobernables alliance as the top heels with a few more ROH guys added to that group.

This. Adding more people to the House of Truth would have been MUCH better. Cole can actually get heat, but the Bucks can't (and never really seem to try, to be honest), so they shouldn't be heels. It's that simple.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Looks like Ray Rowe is hurt:

@RAYMONDxROWE 9m9 minutes ago Romulus, MI
Headed home. Doctors orders. I apologize to anyone hoping to see #WarMachineROH in Toronto. @ringofhonor @njpw1972 #HardToKill #GlobalWars

[Big Red Machine]

People trying to compare the end of Global Wars to the end of Evolve 61 are missing two very important points:
1. The Evolve show did have a finish. It was a DQ. We don't always like DQs, but they are still a finish. The ROH PPV had no winner, or even an announced result.
2. Evolve rarely- if ever- has non-finishes or bad finishes. I can't remember a single DQ or even count-out in EVOLVE in the past year except for the Thatcher-Riddle DQ at WrestleMania weekend, and that was not only early on the card, but it was also clearly a match that absolutely had to happen in that place and time as it set up Thatcher tapping to Scurll the next day to set up a title shot and also helped set up the Thatcher "redemption/I'll reclaim the belt later" thing with Catchpoint. To contrast, ROH does DQs and interference finishes often, and there was no reason that this couldn't have happened at the TV tapings in Toronto.

[Wilson]

I think the bigger issue is the alleged top heels in ROH are in reality the top faces, and the alleged top faces are lame and have no chance of getting cheered. God knows SOMETHING needed to happen in ROH, but I don't think booking the Bullet Club as the NWO is a good long-term plan, because the thing about the NWO is that it killed all of WCW's babyfaces stone dead. The same thing seems very likely to happen here. And world champ Jay Lethal looks absolutely dead in the water right now.

I'm personally getting tired of the Young Bucks. But I don't think ROH has any team that is going to get cheered against the Bucks, or any singles wrestler that is going to get cheered against Adam Cole. So why didn't they make an angle where the Bullet Club are the top babyfaces? They could have gone with the House of Truth/Los Ingobernables alliance as the top heels with a few more ROH guys added to that group.

Well, the good thing is at least when Adam Cole regains the World Title he will have plenty of great, fresh face challengers.

For instance:

[Saintpat]

I don't see the lack of star-making that others are talking about.

Jay Lethal has been made a star through his booking IMO (obviously he has the talent, but he's been elevated by it).

Adam Cole is unquestionably a star.

Jay Briscoe was made a star, in my eyes. RIght now he's not in the main event scene but his booking has made it so that he can jump back in there at any point.

Dalton Castle is becoming a star. Not there yet, have to figure out how to bridge the "he's entertaining in a weird sort of way" to "he's a serious contender," but now he may be on his way to taking the TV title (at least he's the No. 1 contender) so they seem to be making progress there.

Moose is on his way to being a star. Still green, but seems to be winning over more and more people with his in-ring work, which is what needed to improve the most.

Roddy, IMO, was elevated by his feud with Lethal. He truly is Mr. ROH and could be pushed back at any time (not as likely if he's an unhappy camper and making it clear he wants to leave, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been booked to a point that he could main event -- compared to where he was 2 years ago as Mr. Vanilla, I'd call that booking success).

I think they've come up short so far with Fish and O'Reilly, and those are probably booking failures ... But I think part of the problem there is that people (myself included) would rather see ReDragon than them as solo guys. But they could put a rocket on Kyle in particular whenever they choose and the fans would embrace it IMO and he'd be a perfect ROH main eventer.

Bucks are certainly over -- that's not ROH booking, but what ROH has done with them hasn't diminished that and they're being used well IMO.

B.J. Whitmer, a fairly limited guy, is one of the most hated men in wrestling. That's all booking and angles. Even when he was on crutches and couldn't wrestle, he got massive heat.

The Kingdom, IMO, got real heat and was booked extremely well before leaving. We'll see what they do with Taven, but he in particular was elevated by the booking of the Kingdom -- he's in my top three faves in ROH and I used to absolutely see nothing in him.

Hell, even comedy act Cheeseburger has gotten over in a low-midcard role by booking.

Now I'm sure someone can nitpick this list and explain to me how (a) any of these aren't really over or (b) how ROH booking had nothing to do with it if they are, but over a period of about 2 years I've seen all of the above had their status improved by booking in my eyes. Not to mention Matt Hardy, who had a great heel run, or Steen, etc.

[JigsawVs.Jason]

I don't see the lack of star-making that others are talking about.

Jay Lethal has been made a star through his booking IMO (obviously he has the talent, but he's been elevated by it).

Adam Cole is unquestionably a star.

Jay Briscoe was made a star, in my eyes. RIght now he's not in the main event scene but his booking has made it so that he can jump back in there at any point.

Dalton Castle is becoming a star. Not there yet, have to figure out how to bridge the "he's entertaining in a weird sort of way" to "he's a serious contender," but now he may be on his way to taking the TV title (at least he's the No. 1 contender) so they seem to be making progress there.

Moose is on his way to being a star. Still green, but seems to be winning over more and more people with his in-ring work, which is what needed to improve the most.

Roddy, IMO, was elevated by his feud with Lethal. He truly is Mr. ROH and could be pushed back at any time (not as likely if he's an unhappy camper and making it clear he wants to leave, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been booked to a point that he could main event -- compared to where he was 2 years ago as Mr. Vanilla, I'd call that booking success).

I think they've come up short so far with Fish and O'Reilly, and those are probably booking failures ... But I think part of the problem there is that people (myself included) would rather see ReDragon than them as solo guys. But they could put a rocket on Kyle in particular whenever they choose and the fans would embrace it IMO and he'd be a perfect ROH main eventer.

Bucks are certainly over -- that's not ROH booking, but what ROH has done with them hasn't diminished that and they're being used well IMO.

B.J. Whitmer, a fairly limited guy, is one of the most hated men in wrestling. That's all booking and angles. Even when he was on crutches and couldn't wrestle, he got massive heat.

The Kingdom, IMO, got real heat and was booked extremely well before leaving. We'll see what they do with Taven, but he in particular was elevated by the booking of the Kingdom -- he's in my top three faves in ROH and I used to absolutely see nothing in him.

Hell, even comedy act Cheeseburger has gotten over in a low-midcard role by booking.

Now I'm sure someone can nitpick this list and explain to me how (a) any of these aren't really over or (b) how ROH booking had nothing to do with it if they are, but over a period of about 2 years I've seen all of the above had their status improved by booking in my eyes. Not to mention Matt Hardy, who had a great heel run, or Steen, etc.

I'm glad somebody also points out the positive aspects, instead of only focusing on the cons.
Yes, the booking has to get better, but ROH has done a lot of good things, especially when it comes to creating new stars.

[supersonic]

Only two of those names could dethrone Lethal RIGHT NOW and the decision would be taken seriously.

[187_Joeism]

I don´t think they are going to do Lethal vs Cole at BITW, that would be another dumb booking decision, Cole lost to Lethal & Kyle and they are still building that Kyle has Lethal´s number and can´t beat (Only did when Cole interferenced), that should be the next match, they can build Cole in the meantime so he can be a credible challenger again in the future.

Based on crowd reactions also Cabana is more credible than Cole to challenge for the title again, he is more over than i thought he would be.

I want Cole to win the title and i think he is the best wrestler that ROH has right now, but if you are going to do it, do it right.

[supersonic]

I think the bigger issue is the alleged top heels in ROH are in reality the top faces, and the alleged top faces are lame and have no chance of getting cheered. God knows SOMETHING needed to happen in ROH, but I don't think booking the Bullet Club as the NWO is a good long-term plan, because the thing about the NWO is that it killed all of WCW's babyfaces stone dead. The same thing seems very likely to happen here.

http://rohworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 66#p113037

Mike Mondo was like the worst babyface character of all time. Let's keep that in mind. He calls these his Bitch Sticks.

It's undeniable that ROH fans should be thanking Cornette for brokering the deal which saved the company, which few on this board were willing to acknowledge when they were screaming for his head on a plate in 2012.

I was excited when he got the book; I have always been a fan of him and his philosophy on wrestling. But the bottom line is that his creative was disappointing. He can blame the fans, he can blame Greg the Intern, he can blame the iPPV fiascos, but he booked a lot of things nobody wanted to see. Nobody.

Cornette accidentally turned his top heel, Kevin Steen, into ROH's top babyface, and its top babyface, Davey Richards, into an insufferable twat. And then he refused to actually double-turn them. Oh, and he also turned ROH itself heel during the Steen feud.