ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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Mr. Mojo Risin
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:29 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:56 pm
famicommander wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:36 am That's only because Evolve is seen as a pipeline to NXT/WWE.

Nobody would go there otherwise. It'd just be another AAW or PWG.
Ever since Triple H gutted Evolve by taking Gargano, Nese, Gulak, Perkins, etc.; Evolve has become more of a drive thru service for the WWE. Rush, O'Reilly, Dijak were there to have a cup of coffee and leave. While Gabe has plenty of good talent there, I think Triple H keeps Gabe around like a lap dog. Someone with more knowledge than I might know this, but has Evolve even picked up numbers at the gate since this supposed relationship was revealed?
I'm not disagreeing with your analysis of EVOLVE's situation, but I think you've got the Gabe-Hunter situation slightly wrong. I think Gabe- going back to about 2012 or whenever he started making occasional appearances in articles on the WWE website or on DVDs like the Punk DVD- has been angling to become the Paul Heyman to Triple H's Vince. And he's been succeeding wildly.
I don't about that man. Why do you think he's been succeeding wildly?
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

AlexROH wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:25 am My point is that EVOLVE isn't as hot as some say and they don't have as much interesting storylines as everybody say.

WWN Live isn't happy with Gabe's work. As he proved in ROH, he's a very good booker but an awful promoter, that's why I say EVOLVE hasnt been able to create a strong fanbase and GROW IN SIX YEARS. Plus, you have his awful job this year booking and giving FIP a "new identity" or creating Style Battle. Neither of these shows has had a crowd of more than 30 people.

As Heyman did years ago, Gabe is waiting until WWN fire him so he can complete his dream and work full-time for WWE.

And fanbases, I don't know, I just see the problem in EVOLVE. PWG has tons of hardcore fans, even fans that are no wrestling fans, ROH has true fans, PROGRESS has a strong fanbase, even Beyond Wrestling has a loyal fanbase. But EVOLVE, do you know a big group of people that say they are EVOLVE fans (outside the 2 people that run Everything EVOLVE podcast) ? If that kind of people exist, crowds wouldnt be as shitty as they are (outside La Boom), bc they'll know storylines and would be emotionally involved in the matches.

When people just go to your shows bc you have a great combinations of talent but no identity, you have a problem. And I say this as a fan of EVOLVE. I'm tired of this EVOLVE is for everybody and all of that. I used to love the company when they booked 5-6 match cards and have long and technical matches, that was a different over the rest of the scene. Nowadays? They have a spotty-mode Matt Riddle in every ME, tons of high-flyers (I still don't know why Allin and Kincaid are getting such strongs pushes) and matches between 10-20 minutes, bc, you know, EVOLVE is for Everybody. Argh, do you see my point ? When you have to change your identity every year for getting more atention, you are asuming that you won't have a true fanbase.
Where did you hear about WWN Live isn't happy about Gabe's booking? I am curious about that. Excellent assessment about the product though.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

dhads7161 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:14 am You know how you know EVOLVE isn't really hot shit? They have to rely on WrestleMania weekend to get their biggest draws of the year. Has ROH evet had their biggest draw of the year on a Mania weekend? Yes, it happened this year, hell it was literally their largest event ever, but they've never had to rely on WWE to draw their best numbers of the year. I'd even make the argument that it wasn't solely because of Mania weekend that they drew thst much at SCOH because ROH was running in Lakeland, way out of the way but with their effort to bring in the Hardys, promote the shit out of that main event, and offer bus trans out to Lakeland (bus trans I think even had less to do with it, so many people still drove over) they drew that number. EVOLVE had nothing special to promote their cards that week just hey, biggest weekend of the year, we'll be there, come out to the OLE. EVOLVE shows didn't even have the most buzz from all the WWN shows that weekend that was Joey Janela's Spring Break.
That is spot on. Joey Janela booked that show fucking brilliantly and everyone was talking about it.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by dhads7161 »

That Joey Janela show was probably the best show of the weekend I didn't make ot to...damn brother wanted to go back to the hotel and turn in, I wanted to stay but I was exhausted from being awake for over 24 hours.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by AlexROH »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:44 am
AlexROH wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:25 am My point is that EVOLVE isn't as hot as some say and they don't have as much interesting storylines as everybody say.

WWN Live isn't happy with Gabe's work. As he proved in ROH, he's a very good booker but an awful promoter, that's why I say EVOLVE hasnt been able to create a strong fanbase and GROW IN SIX YEARS. Plus, you have his awful job this year booking and giving FIP a "new identity" or creating Style Battle. Neither of these shows has had a crowd of more than 30 people.

As Heyman did years ago, Gabe is waiting until WWN fire him so he can complete his dream and work full-time for WWE.

And fanbases, I don't know, I just see the problem in EVOLVE. PWG has tons of hardcore fans, even fans that are no wrestling fans, ROH has true fans, PROGRESS has a strong fanbase, even Beyond Wrestling has a loyal fanbase. But EVOLVE, do you know a big group of people that say they are EVOLVE fans (outside the 2 people that run Everything EVOLVE podcast) ? If that kind of people exist, crowds wouldnt be as shitty as they are (outside La Boom), bc they'll know storylines and would be emotionally involved in the matches.

When people just go to your shows bc you have a great combinations of talent but no identity, you have a problem. And I say this as a fan of EVOLVE. I'm tired of this EVOLVE is for everybody and all of that. I used to love the company when they booked 5-6 match cards and have long and technical matches, that was a different over the rest of the scene. Nowadays? They have a spotty-mode Matt Riddle in every ME, tons of high-flyers (I still don't know why Allin and Kincaid are getting such strongs pushes) and matches between 10-20 minutes, bc, you know, EVOLVE is for Everybody. Argh, do you see my point ? When you have to change your identity every year for getting more atention, you are asuming that you won't have a true fanbase.
Where did you hear about WWN Live isn't happy about Gabe's booking? I am curious about that. Excellent assessment about the product though.
People have told me, and I can't say more. WWN officials aren't happy with him. As I said, this year they gave him FIP and Style Battle and they didn't like it. FIP is (again) a meh promotion without personality (Gabe tried to make it a Hardcore No Rules promotion) and there won't be a second season of Style Battle. Plus, they aren't happy with the number of injuries caused by ring problems, such as the one Peter Kaasa had back in January (the top rope broke bc Gabe bought a very cheap ring)or the time Thatcher almost killed himself during that stupid "Squared Circle Survival Match" with Gulak.
Last edited by AlexROH on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by famicommander »

I like Evolve, but anyone who think they're close to the same level, popularity wise, as promotions like ROH or even GFW is kidding themselves.

Quality wise you could make the argument, but I still think ROH is better on the whole.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

supersonic wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:40 pm Let me know when there's an Evolve angle as hot as Ki turning heel or Jacobs creeping on Lacey.
I didn't say they were more heated. I said they were often more interesting (Jimmy Loves Lacey being an obvious exception).
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:40 am
Big Red Machine wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:29 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:56 pm

Ever since Triple H gutted Evolve by taking Gargano, Nese, Gulak, Perkins, etc.; Evolve has become more of a drive thru service for the WWE. Rush, O'Reilly, Dijak were there to have a cup of coffee and leave. While Gabe has plenty of good talent there, I think Triple H keeps Gabe around like a lap dog. Someone with more knowledge than I might know this, but has Evolve even picked up numbers at the gate since this supposed relationship was revealed?
I'm not disagreeing with your analysis of EVOLVE's situation, but I think you've got the Gabe-Hunter situation slightly wrong. I think Gabe- going back to about 2012 or whenever he started making occasional appearances in articles on the WWE website or on DVDs like the Punk DVD- has been angling to become the Paul Heyman to Triple H's Vince. And he's been succeeding wildly.
I don't about that man. Why do you think he's been succeeding wildly?
Because every time WWE needs a quote or an interview for an article or DVD about the indy days of Ambrose or Rollins or
Cesaro or Hero or Nigel or Bryan or whoever, they turn to Gabe. Not Ian, not Zandig, not Excalibur and Super Dragon, not even Prazak. They go to Gabe. EVOLVE isn't the only company working with WWE (I believe PROGRESS is as well- and in ways that are much more obvious on your TV screen) but it's Gabe whose promotion is seen as the WWE pipeline, with Gabe getting the Heyman-esque recognition for being the oe lyfind these guys who have the talent to succeed in WWE.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 am
dhads7161 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:14 am You know how you know EVOLVE isn't really hot shit? They have to rely on WrestleMania weekend to get their biggest draws of the year. Has ROH evet had their biggest draw of the year on a Mania weekend? Yes, it happened this year, hell it was literally their largest event ever, but they've never had to rely on WWE to draw their best numbers of the year. I'd even make the argument that it wasn't solely because of Mania weekend that they drew thst much at SCOH because ROH was running in Lakeland, way out of the way but with their effort to bring in the Hardys, promote the shit out of that main event, and offer bus trans out to Lakeland (bus trans I think even had less to do with it, so many people still drove over) they drew that number. EVOLVE had nothing special to promote their cards that week just hey, biggest weekend of the year, we'll be there, come out to the OLE. EVOLVE shows didn't even have the most buzz from all the WWN shows that weekend that was Joey Janela's Spring Break.
That is spot on. Joey Janela booked that show fucking brilliantly and everyone was talking about it.
Because that was just a random one-off show full of what were essentially gimmick matches:
Intergender tag
MMA guy vs. old MMA guy
Giant dude vs. tiny dude
Very, very long battle royale thing.

It was fine as a kind of (lacking a better term) bunch of freak-show attractions, but it gave me absolutely no reason to go see Joey's next show. With EVOLVE or AAW or any other promotion based on competent storytelling, they ALWAYS give me a reason to want to see the next show.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

famicommander wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:33 pm I like Evolve, but anyone who think they're close to the same level, popularity wise, as promotions like ROH or even GFW is kidding themselves.

Quality wise you could make the argument, but I still think ROH is better on the whole.
I don't think anyone is making that argument from an eye-balls and attention standpoint. You could argue that some of the attention on ROH and especially on GFW is (or has been- I'm very far removed from GFW at the moment) has been negative, but I don't think even the biggest EVOLVE fan will argue that they're getting the same amount of attention. The argument from us EVOLVE is that EVOLVE doesn't get anywhere near the attention it deserves for the quality of the product it is, espeially when you consider the attention paid to, say, PWG.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by famicommander »

I don't think nearly as many people watch PWG as people who claim they do.

There can't be more than a few thousand people buying their shows on DVD, and only a few hundred people actually go to their shows. Sure, there's online piracy, but I feel like a lot of people just mention PWG to make it seem like they're hip.

That probably applies to an extent to pretty much every promotion that isn't WWE, but I would guess most of all it applies to the indies with good reputations like Chikara, PWG, Evolve, etc.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by dhads7161 »

I actually do watch every EVOLVE show (FloSlam is a blessing), can't say the same for PWG because they have no service the stream on and are solely DVD.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

AlexROH wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:25 am My point is that EVOLVE isn't as hot as some say and they don't have as much interesting storylines as everybody say.

WWN Live isn't happy with Gabe's work. As he proved in ROH, he's a very good booker but an awful promoter, that's why I say EVOLVE hasnt been able to create a strong fanbase and GROW IN SIX YEARS. Plus, you have his awful job this year booking and giving FIP a "new identity" or creating Style Battle. Neither of these shows has had a crowd of more than 30 people.

As Heyman did years ago, Gabe is waiting until WWN fire him so he can complete his dream and work full-time for WWE.

And fanbases, I don't know, I just see the problem in EVOLVE. PWG has tons of hardcore fans, even fans that are no wrestling fans, ROH has true fans, PROGRESS has a strong fanbase, even Beyond Wrestling has a loyal fanbase. But EVOLVE, do you know a big group of people that say they are EVOLVE fans (outside the 2 people that run Everything EVOLVE podcast) ? If that kind of people exist, crowds wouldnt be as shitty as they are (outside La Boom), bc they'll know storylines and would be emotionally involved in the matches.

When people just go to your shows bc you have a great combinations of talent but no identity, you have a problem. And I say this as a fan of EVOLVE. I'm tired of this EVOLVE is for everybody and all of that. I used to love the company when they booked 5-6 match cards and have long and technical matches, that was a different over the rest of the scene. Nowadays? They have a spotty-mode Matt Riddle in every ME, tons of high-flyers (I still don't know why Allin and Kincaid are getting such strongs pushes) and matches between 10-20 minutes, bc, you know, EVOLVE is for Everybody. Argh, do you see my point ? When you have to change your identity every year for getting more atention, you are asuming that you won't have a true fanbase.
The "EVOLVE is for everyone" marketing is (in my opinion)pretty clearly a transparent attempt to play to the idea of inclusiveness because that's what people in the traditional indy wrestling fanbase age group are looking for nowadays (to be clear: I have no problem with the idea of inclusiveness, but I despise the idea that in order to be considered inclusive you have to go out of your way to shout from the rooftops how inclusive you are, which is what this slogan feels like to me). I do, however, think that EVOLVE has a very strong identity. EVOLVE is the "serious wrestling" promotion where sh*t makes sense and we get clean finishes. EVOLVE is the place where wrestling feels the most like a televised sport.

As for the specifics you mentioned, I find Darby to be a great storyteller (he's very much EVOLVE's 2006 Jimmy Jacobs), and Kincaid has an interesting in-ring style and a gimmick that I find interesting in EVOLVE rather than other places because Gabe has added this element that there is a dark side inside of him that he is trying to keep from coming out, and I have a feeling it will be quite crazy when someone finally pushes him over the edge and he snaps. Riddle's "spottiness" is not something that I have found to be exclusive to EVOLVE. It's just how he adjusts to an opponent that can't work his usual style. It's a weakness in his game, but I don't think he is in any way watered down in EVOLVE.
I wish they would go back to longer matches, but few times they have (like Gulak vs. Williams) everyone whined that the match was boring because it went too long.

New FIP is quite dull aside from Yehi's matches, and Style Battle is that one promotion that I keep watching even though I'm not really sure why, as I really couldn't give you any reason why you should watch it,
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

dhads7161 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:14 am You know how you know EVOLVE isn't really hot shit? They have to rely on WrestleMania weekend to get their biggest draws of the year. Has ROH evet had their biggest draw of the year on a Mania weekend? Yes, it happened this year, hell it was literally their largest event ever, but they've never had to rely on WWE to draw their best numbers of the year. I'd even make the argument that it wasn't solely because of Mania weekend that they drew thst much at SCOH because ROH was running in Lakeland, way out of the way but with their effort to bring in the Hardys, promote the shit out of that main event, and offer bus trans out to Lakeland (bus trans I think even had less to do with it, so many people still drove over) they drew that number. EVOLVE had nothing special to promote their cards that week just hey, biggest weekend of the year, we'll be there, come out to the OLE. EVOLVE shows didn't even have the most buzz from all the WWN shows that weekend that was Joey Janela's Spring Break.
I don't think ROH would ever have booked such a big arena for Hardys vs. Bucks if it wasn't Mania weekend.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 am
dhads7161 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:14 am You know how you know EVOLVE isn't really hot shit? They have to rely on WrestleMania weekend to get their biggest draws of the year. Has ROH evet had their biggest draw of the year on a Mania weekend? Yes, it happened this year, hell it was literally their largest event ever, but they've never had to rely on WWE to draw their best numbers of the year. I'd even make the argument that it wasn't solely because of Mania weekend that they drew thst much at SCOH because ROH was running in Lakeland, way out of the way but with their effort to bring in the Hardys, promote the shit out of that main event, and offer bus trans out to Lakeland (bus trans I think even had less to do with it, so many people still drove over) they drew that number. EVOLVE had nothing special to promote their cards that week just hey, biggest weekend of the year, we'll be there, come out to the OLE. EVOLVE shows didn't even have the most buzz from all the WWN shows that weekend that was Joey Janela's Spring Break.
That is spot on. Joey Janela booked that show fucking brilliantly and everyone was talking about it.
Because that was just a random one-off show full of what were essentially gimmick matches:
Intergender tag
MMA guy vs. old MMA guy
Giant dude vs. tiny dude
Very, very long battle royale thing.

It was fine as a kind of (lacking a better term) bunch of freak-show attractions, but it gave me absolutely no reason to go see Joey's next show. With EVOLVE or AAW or any other promotion based on competent storytelling, they ALWAYS give me a reason to want to see the next show.
I don't know man, Janela by Meltzer's reviews from BOLA, had the Match Of The Weekend. I wouldn't discount his show over WrestleMania weekend as a one hit wonder yet. He seems to be a true student of the industry, not just wrestling. His stock is on the rise and its premature to chuck his show as a one and done. If anything, he's one of the few guys I am really keeping an eye on.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin »

Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:12 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:40 am
Big Red Machine wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:29 pm

I'm not disagreeing with your analysis of EVOLVE's situation, but I think you've got the Gabe-Hunter situation slightly wrong. I think Gabe- going back to about 2012 or whenever he started making occasional appearances in articles on the WWE website or on DVDs like the Punk DVD- has been angling to become the Paul Heyman to Triple H's Vince. And he's been succeeding wildly.
I don't about that man. Why do you think he's been succeeding wildly?
Because every time WWE needs a quote or an interview for an article or DVD about the indy days of Ambrose or Rollins or
Cesaro or Hero or Nigel or Bryan or whoever, they turn to Gabe. Not Ian, not Zandig, not Excalibur and Super Dragon, not even Prazak. They go to Gabe. EVOLVE isn't the only company working with WWE (I believe PROGRESS is as well- and in ways that are much more obvious on your TV screen) but it's Gabe whose promotion is seen as the WWE pipeline, with Gabe getting the Heyman-esque recognition for being the oe lyfind these guys who have the talent to succeed in WWE.
Man, the guys making the most waves are Cole, Fish, and O'Reilly. Gabe didn't have jack shit to do with their careers. Dijak and Rush? ROH guys. If Gabe getting his mug on WWE interviews is succeeding, he's on borrowed time. Galloway got just as much publicity for TNA as he did for Evolve. Hero travelled the world 30 times over besides his time in Evolve to get back in the WWE (does anyone even remember Gabe wanted nothing to do with Hero prior to 2006?). Riddle is all over the fucking place, so is he really an Evolve product? I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Gabe succeeding wildly, brother.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by AlexROH »

First post-WWE booking for aries:

Image
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:12 pm
Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 am

That is spot on. Joey Janela booked that show fucking brilliantly and everyone was talking about it.
Because that was just a random one-off show full of what were essentially gimmick matches:
Intergender tag
MMA guy vs. old MMA guy
Giant dude vs. tiny dude
Very, very long battle royale thing.

It was fine as a kind of (lacking a better term) bunch of freak-show attractions, but it gave me absolutely no reason to go see Joey's next show. With EVOLVE or AAW or any other promotion based on competent storytelling, they ALWAYS give me a reason to want to see the next show.
I don't know man, Janela by Meltzer's reviews from BOLA, had the Match Of The Weekend. I wouldn't discount his show over WrestleMania weekend as a one hit wonder yet. He seems to be a true student of the industry, not just wrestling. His stock is on the rise and its premature to chuck his show as a one and done. If anything, he's one of the few guys I am really keeping an eye on.
I just going to hope you're being sarcastic here. If it it wasn't a one-hit wonder then why has no one heard about him running another show? The cagematch.net tells me he has run several, but no one has paid any sort of attention to them, so I'm going to go ahead and say his Mania weekend show was a one-hit wonder. I don't doubt that he is a student of the industry or that his stock in the business is rising. I've liked the little of him that I've seen- especially on the mic- but his show was nothing special, and having a PWG match that Dave likes a lot means having a PWG match that Dave has seen. PWG is like like New Japan where, to determine an actual match rating from one of Dave's you often need to subtract a star. He lets PWG get away with so much sh*t that he would crap on anyone else for because "the crowd was into it" but you'd never hear him use that as an excuse for TNA or ECW or whoever. He's a f*cking mark. So are the rest of us, but the difference is that we all admit it.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine »

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:29 pm
Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:12 pm
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:40 am

I don't about that man. Why do you think he's been succeeding wildly?
Because every time WWE needs a quote or an interview for an article or DVD about the indy days of Ambrose or Rollins or
Cesaro or Hero or Nigel or Bryan or whoever, they turn to Gabe. Not Ian, not Zandig, not Excalibur and Super Dragon, not even Prazak. They go to Gabe. EVOLVE isn't the only company working with WWE (I believe PROGRESS is as well- and in ways that are much more obvious on your TV screen) but it's Gabe whose promotion is seen as the WWE pipeline, with Gabe getting the Heyman-esque recognition for being the oe lyfind these guys who have the talent to succeed in WWE.
Man, the guys making the most waves are Cole, Fish, and O'Reilly. Gabe didn't have jack shit to do with their careers. Dijak and Rush? ROH guys. If Gabe getting his mug on WWE interviews is succeeding, he's on borrowed time. Galloway got just as much publicity for TNA as he did for Evolve. Hero travelled the world 30 times over besides his time in Evolve to get back in the WWE (does anyone even remember Gabe wanted nothing to do with Hero prior to 2006?). Riddle is all over the fucking place, so is he really an Evolve product? I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Gabe succeeding wildly, brother.
Based on your analysis it should mean he is succeeding even more than mine. If he had nothing to do with these guys (and I don't think that's quite fair to say for Fish and O'Reilly) and yet WWE is still putting him in a spot to receive credit for them, then what could be more Heyman-esque than that?
And yes, Riddle is an EVOLVE product. That is the promotion his name is most connected to. As for Galloway and TNA, I don't remember any buzz for him there at all, because no one who wasn't the Hardys, Ethan, or Lashley got any buzz for TNA. I watched every episode of Impact he was on and have no memory of him doing anything other than showing up for their tacky attempt to capitalize off of everyone hating heel authority figures in WWE, and whatever that last angle was that he was in against Ethan that got blown off on TV when they should have saved it for BFG but didn't because they thought that everyone wanted to see Ethan vs. Lashley yet again and watch Drew challenge a pointlessly-heel Damien Sandow for the TNA Stupid Rules Championship or whatever it was that they called it.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Wilson »

Big Red Machine wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 pm I just going to hope you're being sarcastic here. If it it wasn't a one-hit wonder then why has no one heard about him running another show? The cagematch.net tells me he has run several, but no one has paid any sort of attention to them, so I'm going to go ahead and say his Mania weekend show was a one-hit wonder. I don't doubt that he is a student of the industry or that his stock in the business is rising. I've liked the little of him that I've seen- especially on the mic- but his show was nothing special, and having a PWG match that Dave likes a lot means having a PWG match that Dave has seen. PWG is like like New Japan where, to determine an actual match rating from one of Dave's you often need to subtract a star. He lets PWG get away with so much sh*t that he would crap on anyone else for because "the crowd was into it" but you'd never hear him use that as an excuse for TNA or ECW or whoever. He's a f*cking mark. So are the rest of us, but the difference is that we all admit it.
Dave doesn’t really have great chops in critique. That doesn’t mean he is a valuable reporter on the industry, best doing week-to-week and macro reports. As preposterous as it is, he wears as many hats in the Observer as he did when the publication first started. His reviews have always felt more ‘zine than journalism, but I know why they the way they are. I’ve always interpreted Dave’s preference toward an excited crowd as a sort of reinforcing of the industry--the crowd driven to believe in stakes as the very import of wrestling. Often, I don’t agree with him, but I am not warm at all to the idea of calling him a mark.

On the success or lack thereof regarding EVOLVE, many promotions can still be great even without catching the imagination of a popular audience. All I’ll say is that creatively the things Gabe does today are pretty much linear to what he was doing in ROH. For better or for worse, his strengths and weaknesses have been intact from his very early days of booking.
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