ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

This is the place to discuss all the latest ROH news, announcements and events!
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dark patriot
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by dark patriot » Thu May 11, 2017 8:41 am

saw the Duds vs. the Hardys in a 4 way in NYC and Devon didnt do anything.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by SandsShifter » Thu May 11, 2017 2:52 pm

If the new episode of Being The Elite is anything to go off of, looks like ROH signed Flip Gordon.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by monster mafia » Sat May 13, 2017 6:50 pm

insider:

As noted last night, Simon Grimm aka the former Simon Gotch, was backstage at the PPV.

ROH and New Japan officials had meetings regarding the continuation of their working agreement this week.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by King of Indy Style » Sat May 13, 2017 7:11 pm

Simon can't be worse than fucking Bull James, but for the love of god ROH, at least wait and see if he can hang on the indies before you sign him

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by dhads7161 » Sat May 13, 2017 7:34 pm

supersonic wrote:D'Von is pretty useless and expired now. Just book Jay vs. Bully in a series of plunder matches.
Or bring in Spike or Dreamer as a stand in for D-Von.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by SweetDaddy » Sat May 13, 2017 7:55 pm

If ROH loses NJPW they're just another indy show.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by LJimmy » Sat May 13, 2017 8:30 pm

ROH is crying foul with contract tampering claims these days. So how are they able to have someone show up backstage that is still in their 90 no-compete clause period with WWE?

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by TYFDK » Sat May 13, 2017 8:41 pm

When did Simon compete at an ROH show?

LJimmy
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by LJimmy » Sat May 13, 2017 8:53 pm

TYFDK wrote:When did Simon compete at an ROH show?
He's backstage talking to the company before he's 100% cleared from WWE. When you're waiting out no-compete you can't talk to specific companies until your 90 days are up

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by famicommander » Sat May 13, 2017 9:12 pm

SweetDaddy wrote:If ROH loses NJPW they're just another indy show.
Just another indie show with OTA TV distribution in over 70% of homes in the US?
Just another indie show with TV deals in Canada and Portugal?
Just another indie show with national cable/satellite PPV distribution?
Just another indie show with Jay Lethal, the Young Bucks, Cody Rhodes, Bubba Dudley, and the Briscoes?
Just another indie show with a working agreement with CMLL?
Just another indie show drawing ~1,000+ fans 50+ times per year?
Just another indie show running live events in 4 countries on 3 continents every year?
Just another indie show whose parent company just made a ~7 billion dollar (cash+debt assumed) purchase of a major media company?

This is just a ridiculous statement.

Obviously losing the NJPW agreement would be a bad thing, but think before you speak. Any US-based promotion not named WWE would love to be in ROH's position, and that includes Impact, Lucha Underground, Evolve, etc.

I don't see any reason why NJPW would stop working with ROH. They're only running 2 shows in the US in 2017; even if they quintuple that amount in 2018, it's still about 1/5 the amount of shows ROH runs. And NJPW's US TV viewership is a fraction of what ROH TV gets. And it may help them hold onto talent by having them work for both promotions as we have seen with the Young Bucks, War Machine, Lethal, Ospreay, the Briscoes, etc.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun May 14, 2017 2:34 pm

famicommander wrote:
SweetDaddy wrote:If ROH loses NJPW they're just another indy show.
Just another indie show with OTA TV distribution in over 70% of homes in the US?
Just another indie show with TV deals in Canada and Portugal?
Just another indie show with national cable/satellite PPV distribution?
Just another indie show with Jay Lethal, the Young Bucks, Cody Rhodes, Bubba Dudley, and the Briscoes?
Just another indie show with a working agreement with CMLL?
Just another indie show drawing ~1,000+ fans 50+ times per year?
Just another indie show running live events in 4 countries on 3 continents every year?
Just another indie show whose parent company just made a ~7 billion dollar (cash+debt assumed) purchase of a major media company?

This is just a ridiculous statement.

Obviously losing the NJPW agreement would be a bad thing, but think before you speak. Any US-based promotion not named WWE would love to be in ROH's position, and that includes Impact, Lucha Underground, Evolve, etc.

I don't see any reason why NJPW would stop working with ROH. They're only running 2 shows in the US in 2017; even if they quintuple that amount in 2018, it's still about 1/5 the amount of shows ROH runs. And NJPW's US TV viewership is a fraction of what ROH TV gets. And it may help them hold onto talent by having them work for both promotions as we have seen with the Young Bucks, War Machine, Lethal, Ospreay, the Briscoes, etc.

- ROH is not doing 1000+ fans, fifty times a year. They draw over 1000 in NYC, in Philly, Mania weekend, whenever they bring the New Japan guys to Toronto or Chicago, and maybe once a year in Hopkins or San Antonio, plus whenever they go to another continent. That's MAYBE fifteen times a year, AT MOST.
- The CMLL agreement hasn't done much of anything for ROH. It has helped Taven and Elgin get over more in Mexico, but all it has given ROH is a few dates Dragon Lee, some other less notable and less talented guys, and also one random appearance by a mediocre luchadora. Seeing Dragon Lee and Volador is cool, but they haven't actually done anything with them.
- Without the ability to also work for New Japan, do we really think the Bucks would stay exclusive to ROH?
- As for the Briscoes, they're great, but Bully sucks and while Lethal is very good, he's not creating any buzz. He's not a guy like Zack Sabre Jr. or Marty Scurll or Pentagon Jr. or Matt Riddle where the name generates buzz. You don't hear "Jay Lethal vs. X" and get really excited because you think you might see something special.

You're not wrong in saying that ROH is in a position that every other indy in the world would love to be in, but lets not pretend that ROH is doing great right now. There only buzz comes from New Japan and many of the shows have been extremely sub-par. They don't come across as the promotion of the future anymore, or even the promotion of the present. They come across like TNA: a promotion that had some very good times (and ROH's were much better and longer than TNA's) but is now on a huge downswing and completely blind to its problems. They're going around claiming to be great when they are mediocre at best, over-hyping things to the point of rolling your eyes, and bringing in old has-beens and pretending that being a former WWE star means people actually want to see you on the indies. They don't feel cutting edge. They feel completely stale. Meanwhile, a lot of other indies have better rosters, are utilizing them better, are telling better stories, and have content that is cheaper and easier to access. Super-indies are everywhere now. Guys can get almost as much exposure working combinations of other promotions as they can working for ROH, and will have more creative freedom doing so as well as more freedom to work for who they want. If ROH had an elite stable of exclusive names that would be one thing, but they don't. They're not even close.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by The Dragon Saga » Mon May 15, 2017 11:39 am

Actually, knowing that 2015 was ROH's best year financially in their existence, with the numbers attending their shows with some being in larger arenas, I would 100% disagree with you Big Red and could tell you that while ROH creatively may not be the home of creative plot twists and ingriguing storylines, it as a business is doing the best in North America outside of WWE. So yes, I'd say their doing pretty bloody well.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon May 15, 2017 1:18 pm

The Dragon Saga wrote:Actually, knowing that 2015 was ROH's best year financially in their existence, with the numbers attending their shows with some being in larger arenas, I would 100% disagree with you Big Red and could tell you that while ROH creatively may not be the home of creative plot twists and ingriguing storylines, it as a business is doing the best in North America outside of WWE. So yes, I'd say their doing pretty bloody well.
What, exactly, are you basing this on? 2015 was their best year financially, yes. And attendance has been sloping well downward since then, aside from certain very big events (basically SCOH, Field of Honor, and the New Japan tours).
Attendance has been down from 2015 levels in at least Atlanta, San Antonio (in 2015 they drew 600 for a TV taping the night after drawing 1000 in the same building for a PPV. They haven't drawn 600 in either of their last two trips to San Antonio), Chicago (which was a huge market for ROH but they only drew 700 last time, which is barely better than what they did when they first ran Chicago in 2004) and Hopkins (even this last show didn't do the over 1,000 they did for Kyle vs. Lethal). They've been running pretty consistently in Baltimore for about five years now. They shouldn't be drawing 650. They only drew 650 in PHILLY for the post-FB tapings, and that's a card that included KUSHIDA, Ospreay, Scrull, Dragon Lee, and Cody (in addition to all of the regulars). Hell... 1,800 in Hammerstein for Manhattan Mayhem VI is disappointing when you consider that they drew 2,500 for Best in the World 2011, which was before they even had Sinclair TV.

And aside from SCOH and returning to Hammerstein, where has ROH started to run bigger buildings?

Yes, ROH is doing relatively well, for an indy, but most indies don't have a TV in a large majority of the country, or ROH's money, star power, and reputation, not to mention the exclusivity on big names like Adam Cole, the Young Bucks, the Briscoes, Marty Scurll, and Christopher Daniels. ROH might be doing relatively well for an indy, but they're not doing relatively well compared to ROH. Yes, they've drawn two or three big houses this year. But so did WCW in 1999. Get your head out of the sand.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by The Dragon Saga » Mon May 15, 2017 2:40 pm

I don't know what you're looking at, but hell, I'll waste 25 minutes of my time.

Atlanta TV Taping, 14/1 - 1,000, sold-out
Undisputed Legacy, San Antonio, 3/2 - 600
Honor Reigns Supreme, 4/2 - 650
Steel City Excellence, 11/2 - 1,000, sold-out
Manhattan Mayhem, 4/3 - 1,800, sold-out
15th Anniversary, 10/3 - 900, sold-out
Post 15th Anniversary TV taping, 11/3 - 700
Supercard of Honor XI, 1/4 - 3,500
Charm City Excellence, 8/4 - 650
Unauthroized, 28/4 - 600, sold-out
Masters of the Craft, 29/4 - unknown
WOTW Toronto, 7/5 - 1,500, sold-out
WOTW Dearborn, 10/5 - 1,200, sold-out
WOTW NYC, 12/5 - 1,800, sold-out
WOTW Philadelphia, 14/5 - 1,000, sold-out

Figures sourced through the Observer. Now, that's leaving the Honor Rising shows out because I know you'll probably complain that they don't count anyway, but that's fine, I don't need that to make my point.

So if you get out your calculator and add all those figures together, you'll get 16,900. That's how many people have attended ROH shows, live, by purchasing a ticket so far this year and it is only May. That's 15 shows across 10 States, three pay-per-views, two of which were sold-out. No other promotion NOT NAMED WWE, are able to do that, because none of them are good enough or large enough to do it. That's a simple fact, so don't even try to argue that. I know you will, don't worry, I won't read it, I'd rather rub sand paper into my eyes.

That was the only point I was making. I couldn't give a shit about what you think of the product if I'm being totally honest or the business model Sinclair runs ROH under, because I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're intentionally critical because you're a lapsed fan who wants to be critical and will do whatever it takes to be critical. And that's fine. I live in the real world. Making stupid comparisons to WCW in 1999 is charming and all, because it's not like there's a massive fucking difference between the running costs of Ring of Honor and WCW, but that's why it's hard to take any argument you make seriously.

So again, because sometimes the second times the charm.

It might not be 100%, riveting television 100% of the time with everyones favorite indie darlings finally getting their big breaks, but as a business, Ring of Honor are the only North American wrestling promotion who asides from WWE can say that they have an intricate and diverse business on a national scale and who are succeeding in getting asses into seats in arenas across the United States and Canada. TNA can't say that. EVOLVE sure as fuck can't say that. PW; I won't even go into that. It's solely WWE and ROH. So leave your silly little "indy" comments at the door because unless you need a refresher, ROH isn't a regional little indie anymore and hasn't been in many years.
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by AlexROH » Mon May 15, 2017 3:15 pm

The Dragon Saga wrote:I don't know what you're looking at, but hell, I'll waste 25 minutes of my time.

Atlanta TV Taping, 14/1 - 1,000, sold-out
Undisputed Legacy, San Antonio, 3/2 - 600
Honor Reigns Supreme, 4/2 - 650
Steel City Excellence, 11/2 - 1,000, sold-out
Manhattan Mayhem, 4/3 - 1,800, sold-out
15th Anniversary, 10/3 - 900, sold-out
Post 15th Anniversary TV taping, 11/3 - 700
Supercard of Honor XI, 1/4 - 3,500
Charm City Excellence, 8/4 - 650
Unauthroized, 28/4 - 600, sold-out
Masters of the Craft, 29/4 - unknown
WOTW Toronto, 7/5 - 1,500, sold-out
WOTW Dearborn, 10/5 - 1,200, sold-out
WOTW NYC, 12/5 - 1,800, sold-out
WOTW Philadelphia, 14/5 - 1,000, sold-out

Figures sourced through the Observer. Now, that's leaving the Honor Rising shows out because I know you'll probably complain that they don't count anyway, but that's fine, I don't need that to make my point.

So if you get out your calculator and add all those figures together, you'll get 16,900. That's how many people have attended ROH shows, live, by purchasing a ticket so far this year and it is only May. That's 15 shows across 10 States, three pay-per-views, two of which were sold-out. No other promotion NOT NAMED WWE, are able to do that, because none of them are good enough or large enough to do it. That's a simple fact, so don't even try to argue that. I know you will, don't worry, I won't read it, I'd rather rub sand paper into my eyes.

That was the only point I was making. I couldn't give a shit about what you think of the product if I'm being totally honest or the business model Sinclair runs ROH under, because I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're intentionally critical because you're a lapsed fan who wants to be critical and will do whatever it takes to be critical. And that's fine. I live in the real world. Making stupid comparisons to WCW in 1999 is charming and all, because it's not like there's a massive fucking difference between the running costs of Ring of Honor and WCW, but that's why it's hard to take any argument you make seriously.

So again, because sometimes the second times the charm.

It might not be 100%, riveting television 100% of the time with everyones favorite indie darlings finally getting their big breaks, but as a business, Ring of Honor are the only North American wrestling promotion who asides from WWE can say that they have an intricate and diverse business on a national scale and who are succeeding in getting asses into seats in arenas across the United States and Canada. TNA can't say that. EVOLVE sure as fuck can't say that. PW; I won't even go into that. It's solely WWE and ROH. So leave your silly little "indy" comments at the door because unless you need a refresher, ROH isn't a regional little indie anymore and hasn't been in many years.
I don't know the official number for Masters of the Craft, but Riccabonni said it was a sold out and you could see a lot of people in the building, even more that at the Turner Hall Ballroom the night before.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon May 15, 2017 4:26 pm

The Dragon Saga wrote:I don't know what you're looking at, but hell, I'll waste 25 minutes of my time.

Atlanta TV Taping, 14/1 - 1,000, sold-out
Undisputed Legacy, San Antonio, 3/2 - 600
Honor Reigns Supreme, 4/2 - 650
Steel City Excellence, 11/2 - 1,000, sold-out
Manhattan Mayhem, 4/3 - 1,800, sold-out
15th Anniversary, 10/3 - 900, sold-out
Post 15th Anniversary TV taping, 11/3 - 700
Supercard of Honor XI, 1/4 - 3,500
Charm City Excellence, 8/4 - 650
Unauthroized, 28/4 - 600, sold-out
Masters of the Craft, 29/4 - unknown
WOTW Toronto, 7/5 - 1,500, sold-out
WOTW Dearborn, 10/5 - 1,200, sold-out
WOTW NYC, 12/5 - 1,800, sold-out
WOTW Philadelphia, 14/5 - 1,000, sold-out

Figures sourced through the Observer. Now, that's leaving the Honor Rising shows out because I know you'll probably complain that they don't count anyway, but that's fine, I don't need that to make my point.

So if you get out your calculator and add all those figures together, you'll get 16,900. That's how many people have attended ROH shows, live, by purchasing a ticket so far this year and it is only May. That's 15 shows across 10 States, three pay-per-views, two of which were sold-out. No other promotion NOT NAMED WWE, are able to do that, because none of them are good enough or large enough to do it. That's a simple fact, so don't even try to argue that. I know you will, don't worry, I won't read it, I'd rather rub sand paper into my eyes.

Um... what "Observer" are you using? Because Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer Newsletter gives some wildly different numbers from your "Observer." Here is what Mr. Meltzer has had to say, with the appropriate sourcing:
1/14 Atlanta (ROH TV tapings - 700 sellout):
http://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling- ... uka-wwe-uk
They drew 500 on the 2/3 show in San Antonio.
The 2/4 show in Dallas drew 600
http://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling- ... -beginning
Both the weekend shows filled small buildings, with 800 in Pittsburgh and 750 in Columbus, OH.
http://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling- ... ials-death
4/28 Milwaukee (ROH - 750 sellout)
4/29 Hopkins, MN (ROH - 900)
http://members.f4wonline.com/wrestling- ... review-wwe

I'm also not seeing where you got the numbers from Dearborn, NYC, or Philly from. And even if your numbers for them are true, they're less than what ROH drew for these shows in NYC and Philly previously in the same building.
I also wouldn't put too much stock into the word "sellout" here. Seems odd to me that you can sell out the William J. Meyers Pavilion in Baltimore with just 650 when you sold 900 tickets to the same building last July. (And, by the way, the Women of Honor show that afternoon did 750, which is better than ROH did in Baltimore for TV tapings last month). Same with Hammerstein? How can 1,800 be a sell-out if you did 2,500 in the same building for BITW 2011 and 3,000 for the first War of the Worlds show?

So basically you've completely shamed yourself by lying and inflating the numbers for four shows- and you'd f*cking better well respond to that particular part, pal, because if you don't answer that accusation I think you'll have pretty much flushed any respect that anyone had for you down the toilet.

But because I'm a nice guy I'm going to keep chatting with you:
Do you really think that a company with ROH's level of exposure and stars should be only be drawing 900 people to a PPV? Especially one right after they had the surprise debuts of both Bully Ray and the Hardys?
How do you defend ROH only drawing 650 in Baltimore when they've been running there pretty consistently for about four or five years at this point and have drawn several hundred more than that in the past?

The Dragon Saga wrote:
That was the only point I was making. I couldn't give a shit about what you think of the product if I'm being totally honest or the business model Sinclair runs ROH under, because I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're intentionally critical because you're a lapsed fan who wants to be critical and will do whatever it takes to be critical. And that's fine. I live in the real world. Making stupid comparisons to WCW in 1999 is charming and all, because it's not like there's a massive fucking difference between the running costs of Ring of Honor and WCW, but that's why it's hard to take any argument you make seriously.

So again, because sometimes the second times the charm.

It might not be 100%, riveting television 100% of the time with everyones favorite indie darlings finally getting their big breaks, but as a business, Ring of Honor are the only North American wrestling promotion who asides from WWE can say that they have an intricate and diverse business on a national scale and who are succeeding in getting asses into seats in arenas across the United States and Canada. TNA can't say that. EVOLVE sure as fuck can't say that. PW; I won't even go into that. It's solely WWE and ROH. So leave your silly little "indy" comments at the door because unless you need a refresher, ROH isn't a regional little indie anymore and hasn't been in many years.
Dude... how do you keep missing the point that I am trying to make? No one ever said that ROH is not the second most financially successful wrestling promotion in the US. Ring of Honor is doing well financially compared to all other indies. But 2017 Ring of Honor is drawing fewer people than 2015 Ring of Honor. That means there is a downward trend. It means fewer people want to see ROH now than two years ago. That means, and it will continue to dwindle unless there a change made!

You have also completely missed the point of my WCW comparison. It has nothing to do operating costs or total dollar values. WCW drew some great houses in 1999, but fans were making it clear that they weren't happy with the direction of the product. The powers that be did not improve the direction, so fans stopped showing up and stopped watching the TV show and buying the PPVs, and attendance in 2000 was often dismal and ratings for the TV show greatly declined.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Montana » Mon May 15, 2017 6:28 pm

LJimmy wrote:
TYFDK wrote:When did Simon compete at an ROH show?
He's backstage talking to the company before he's 100% cleared from WWE. When you're waiting out no-compete you can't talk to specific companies until your 90 days are up
I believe once your contract is released, you can begin negotiations, however cannot compete on camera. Wouldn't make sense for someone who got fired, but yet can't start to look for work.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by jordidebaas » Mon May 15, 2017 11:15 pm

Montana wrote:
LJimmy wrote:
TYFDK wrote:When did Simon compete at an ROH show?
He's backstage talking to the company before he's 100% cleared from WWE. When you're waiting out no-compete you can't talk to specific companies until your 90 days are up
I believe once your contract is released, you can begin negotiations, however cannot compete on camera. Wouldn't make sense for someone who got fired, but yet can't start to look for work.
Well, LJimmy has clearly read Simon Gotch's contract, so you're just plain wrong here
I was in the front line when we battled page 15

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon May 15, 2017 11:23 pm

What LJimmy has described here sounds to me like how these things have been described as working in the past.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by BurningHammer » Mon May 15, 2017 11:43 pm

I don't know wether the option will be taken but Cole does have the same option as Fish if he wants, I don't know if we will see something at Best In The World or the TV is really is last appreance considering when it will air and when he will sign with WWE.

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