ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

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Wilson
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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Wilson » Tue May 16, 2017 5:29 am

Big Red Machine wrote: I'm also not seeing where you got the numbers from Dearborn, NYC, or Philly from. And even if your numbers for them are true, they're less than what ROH drew for these shows in NYC and Philly previously in the same building.
I also wouldn't put too much stock into the word "sellout" here. Seems odd to me that you can sell out the William J. Meyers Pavilion in Baltimore with just 650 when you sold 900 tickets to the same building last July. (And, by the way, the Women of Honor show that afternoon did 750, which is better than ROH did in Baltimore for TV tapings last month). Same with Hammerstein? How can 1,800 be a sell-out if you did 2,500 in the same building for BITW 2011 and 3,000 for the first War of the Worlds show?

So basically you've completely shamed yourself by lying and inflating the numbers for four shows- and you'd f*cking better well respond to that particular part, pal, because if you don't answer that accusation I think you'll have pretty much flushed any respect that anyone had for you down the toilet.
Giving a boost to Big Red Machine at his most savage.

In addition to BRM’s excellent points, the relationship to New Japan leaves ROH in somewhat of a precarious predicament, in which ROH largely kotows to the larger company in creative, provides more to their potential competitor more than they benefit, and superficially inflates the status of ROH’s larger shows. If New Japan were to start withdrawing from their commitment in their relationship it would hurt a lot of their live shows and their drawing power on PPVs, not to mention the attraction to for talent that have any interest in working in New Japan. ROH is really showing a lack of ability that they can draw long-term without artificial boosts.

And the Sinclair Group, as owners, may also be a potential issue. One thing we seem to be sure of is their fiscal conservatism. If ROH isn’t making desirable returns, whatever terms they may be, I wouldn’t call the promotion to be safe at all, despite how it may compete against other promotions. SBG’s acquisition in Tribune will likely bring in a new suite of executives, who may be greatly opposed to Koff’s pet wrasslin’ project. The television show might be cheap for the company to produce, but there is nearly tenfold the revenue for advertising in other televised media.

Perhaps less hypothetical than any of the above is Ring of Honor’s lack of building stars and creative’s lack of propulsion. Almost no promotion is immune to a cold product or a lack of new draws. I don’t know if PPVs will do as well with Cody, Daniels, and Lethal as the central draws.

I don’t think either me or BRM believe that ROH is currently imperiled, but there are glaring flaws that exist. A promotion with as many tools as ROH should be consistently outperforming itself, not gaining meek advantages in small areas and performing generally worse in the rest.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue May 16, 2017 6:34 am

BurningHammer wrote:I don't know wether the option will be taken but Cole does have the same option as Fish if he wants, I don't know if we will see something at Best In The World or the TV is really is last appreance considering when it will air and when he will sign with WWE.
I was thinking about this as well. Unfortunately, though, I see the fact that he didn't work Toronto or Dearborn as bad sign.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue May 16, 2017 6:37 am

Wilson wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote: I'm also not seeing where you got the numbers from Dearborn, NYC, or Philly from. And even if your numbers for them are true, they're less than what ROH drew for these shows in NYC and Philly previously in the same building.
I also wouldn't put too much stock into the word "sellout" here. Seems odd to me that you can sell out the William J. Meyers Pavilion in Baltimore with just 650 when you sold 900 tickets to the same building last July. (And, by the way, the Women of Honor show that afternoon did 750, which is better than ROH did in Baltimore for TV tapings last month). Same with Hammerstein? How can 1,800 be a sell-out if you did 2,500 in the same building for BITW 2011 and 3,000 for the first War of the Worlds show?

So basically you've completely shamed yourself by lying and inflating the numbers for four shows- and you'd f*cking better well respond to that particular part, pal, because if you don't answer that accusation I think you'll have pretty much flushed any respect that anyone had for you down the toilet.
Giving a boost to Big Red Machine at his most savage.

In addition to BRM’s excellent points, the relationship to New Japan leaves ROH in somewhat of a precarious predicament, in which ROH largely kotows to the larger company in creative, provides more to their potential competitor more than they benefit, and superficially inflates the status of ROH’s larger shows. If New Japan were to start withdrawing from their commitment in their relationship it would hurt a lot of their live shows and their drawing power on PPVs, not to mention the attraction to for talent that have any interest in working in New Japan. ROH is really showing a lack of ability that they can draw long-term without artificial boosts.

And the Sinclair Group, as owners, may also be a potential issue. One thing we seem to be sure of is their fiscal conservatism. If ROH isn’t making desirable returns, whatever terms they may be, I wouldn’t call the promotion to be safe at all, despite how it may compete against other promotions. SBG’s acquisition in Tribune will likely bring in a new suite of executives, who may be greatly opposed to Koff’s pet wrasslin’ project. The television show might be cheap for the company to produce, but there is nearly tenfold the revenue for advertising in other televised media.

Perhaps less hypothetical than any of the above is Ring of Honor’s lack of building stars and creative’s lack of propulsion. Almost no promotion is immune to a cold product or a lack of new draws. I don’t know if PPVs will do as well with Cody, Daniels, and Lethal as the central draws.

I don’t think either me or BRM believe that ROH is currently imperiled, but there are glaring flaws that exist. A promotion with as many tools as ROH should be consistently outperforming itself, not gaining meek advantages in small areas and performing generally worse in the rest.
To tie two of these points together, just look at how Adam Page's inclusion in Bullet Club, turning back heel right after his big babyface win over BJ Whitmer, has pretty much stalled his career by forcing him to be Bullet Club's American job-boy because they want to protect Cole and the Bucks and they also want to put the babyfaces over way too often, so Page always winds up taking the pins.

As for the Sinclair thing, I think that if ROH can make them a profit on its own while also providing them with TV product that they are actually making money on as opposed to paying for Friends reruns or whatever, they'll be happy with ROH. What that means, however, is that whoever is running the wrestling end of things needs to keep costs down, and ROH is currently using WAY too many guys on a regular basis for that to happen. Caprice Coleman has outlived his usefulness. If Shane Taylor can't cut it on his own he needs to go. BCB and Titus should be regional guys at best, occasionally brought in outside of their home regions if Silas Young or Kenny King happen to need a tag partner on a particular weekend. Ferrara and Coast 2 Coast should be strictly regionally guys, and Burger should only be brought along if his specific presence is needed. SOTF should be cut down to one night with a lot fewer guys in the qualifiers. I believe Gabe outright admitted at one point that SOTF was an excuse to book about eight fewer guys than usual on one show in order to save cash. They could also do a much better job of monetizing something like SOTF by making it a one-night iPPV. There are things that can and should be done to help reduce ROH's bottom line to make it as profitable as possible (like not wasting money on Bubba Ray Dudley as a singles wrestler in 2017), but Delirious has shown a predilection for doing the exact opposite by doing things like creating the six-man tag titles, which not only cost money to make, but have seemingly forced them to expand the roster even more, as there is no way that guys like T.K. O'Ryan or Vinny Marseglia would be on the roster otherwise and guys like Jax Dane almost certainly wouldn't be randomly brought if challengers to fill out the division weren't needed.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by AlexROH » Thu May 18, 2017 10:20 am

Now is official!
Image
Ring of Honor is thrilled to announce the signing of Travis “Flip” Gordon to an exclusive contract! One of the hottest prospects in wrestling, Gordon made his initial mark at a ROH tryout camp before getting an opportunity on Ring of Honor television. From there, the high-flying Gordon impressed the ROH Board of Directors and earned a contract.

Gordon comes to ROH serving as an active member of the Army National Guard. Born in Boston, MA, Gordon was raised in Kalispell, MT where he was a four-time state champion wrestler. Gordon has become a can’t miss prospect in large part because of his aerial offense, part of which was developed years before he ever stepped in the ring when he was a gymnast and mascot Cecil the Cardinal at Northern Idaho College!

His athleticism served him well following a 2014 move to Boston where he enrolled in the New England Pro Wrestling Academy, where he was trained by former Top Prospect Tournament competitor Brian Fury. In that time, Gordon became a C4 and explosives expert as a combat engineer.

Just two years since his first match, Gordon’s meteoric rise and innovative offense has made him one of the hottest free agent in the world. Ring of Honor is thrilled to welcome Flip Gordon to the ROH Roster!

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Wilson » Thu May 18, 2017 3:19 pm

Flip's fine. I just feel for the dude, being a high-flyer being booked in ROH and all. I have a fool's hope that he ends up well in the company.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by monster mafia » Thu May 18, 2017 3:25 pm

woods,gresham ,gordon...new blood and that is good..i hope they bring curt stallion in the future.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by King of Indy Style » Thu May 18, 2017 3:41 pm

Agreed, MM. It's not much on paper but it's three solid additions to the midcard. Can't be mad about that. Especially if Chuckie T is an official signing.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by rovert1 » Fri May 19, 2017 4:41 pm

monster mafia wrote:woods,gresham ,gordon...new blood and that is good..i hope they bring curt stallion in the future.
Woods was released from a company that rarely releases people. Likely the first flop TPT winner to me.

Glad for Gresham masterful wrestler but his endless troubles with Gabe and his height and odd proportions make for a hard sell for WWE or even TNA.

As talented as he is Flip's social media and statements about homosexuals likely would kill his WWE chances.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by TYFDK » Fri May 19, 2017 4:52 pm

What a fucking buzzkill you are.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by rovert1 » Fri May 19, 2017 5:33 pm

TYFDK wrote:What a fucking buzzkill you are.
Feel free to counter me?

You can look at Delirious's deterioration as a booker via his TPT winners, the development for each has gotten progressively worse. Josh isn't a priority to him and he will be a flop because Delirious doesn't care. If they prove me wrong I will freely admit it.
Last edited by Wilson on Sat May 20, 2017 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: attacking a user

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by TYFDK » Fri May 19, 2017 6:51 pm

rovert1 wrote:
TYFDK wrote:What a fucking buzzkill you are.
Feel free to counter me?

You can look at Delirious's deterioration as a booker via his TPT winners, the development for each has gotten progressively worse. Josh isn't a priority to him and he will be a flop because Delirious doesn't care. If they prove me wrong I will freely admit it. I am not monster mafia.
I mean I don't know what you know, but looking at them, Woods could very well turn into a fun star, Gresham is very entertaining to watch, and Gordon, while it sucks he made bad comments, could hopefully learn from his mistakes and he's also fun.

It can't be fun watching wrestling with all this depressing insider knowledge.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by rovert1 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:16 pm

TYFDK wrote:
rovert1 wrote:
TYFDK wrote:What a fucking buzzkill you are.
Feel free to counter me?

You can look at Delirious's deterioration as a booker via his TPT winners, the development for each has gotten progressively worse. Josh isn't a priority to him and he will be a flop because Delirious doesn't care. If they prove me wrong I will freely admit it. I am not monster mafia.
I mean I don't know what you know, but looking at them, Woods could very well turn into a fun star, Gresham is very entertaining to watch, and Gordon, while it sucks he made bad comments, could hopefully learn from his mistakes and he's also fun.

It can't be fun watching wrestling with all this depressing insider knowledge.
What's so insider in what I said? EVOLVE/Gabe books towards smart fans, Flip's comments are/were public via social media and re: Woods WWE for their flaws creatively they rarely make mistakes in terms of pure talent evaluation.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by monster mafia » Fri May 19, 2017 8:05 pm

i think that the tag team division needs fresh air...time to bring or create some new teams.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Roque11 » Fri May 19, 2017 9:39 pm

Josh Woods is the real deal and ROH has themselves a big time player. He has the look, badass aura and athletic background. He'll go father than Matt Riddle as he actually comes off like a legit tough guy athlete, rather than being a goofball. Oh, and he also won't be double booking himself!

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by rovert1 » Fri May 19, 2017 9:53 pm

Roque11 wrote:Josh Woods is the real deal and ROH has themselves a big time player. He has the look, badass aura and athletic background. He'll go father than Matt Riddle as he actually comes off like a legit tough guy athlete, rather than being a goofball. Oh, and he also won't be double booking himself!

Continuing your schtick I see.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by Wilson » Sat May 20, 2017 6:47 am

Believe it or not, I just cleaned this thread of its messiest parts.

This message is in response to a few specific individuals:

Don't spam the thread with single sentence responses; this is not Twitter. Don't be combative for the sake of being combative. Don't be relentlessly mean-spirited. Don't shut down conversations.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by dark patriot » Sat May 20, 2017 9:04 am

the way i took the booing of Woods at the tv taping was that the fans think that he sucks and is undeserving,not that he was drawing good heel heat.id seen him a couple times before he got to ROH and he did nothing to impress me then either.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by kovs27 » Sat May 20, 2017 10:08 am

Woods didn't look bad. I think it was more of that reaction because the crowd loved Starr.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by dhads7161 » Sat May 20, 2017 10:16 am

monster mafia wrote:i think that the tag team division needs fresh air...time to bring or create some new teams.
Once their free of the shackles of the Lucha Underground contract I would love to see see Pentagon & Fenix in ROH.

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Re: ALL PURPOSE NEW TALENT/SPECIAL ATTRACTION THREAD

Post by famicommander » Sat May 20, 2017 11:48 am

monster mafia wrote:i think that the tag team division needs fresh air...time to bring or create some new teams.
I'm going to say what I always say when someone mentions this: find a young guy and put him on a team with Stevie Richards.

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