Too Much emphasis on the NJPW relationship

[dhads7161]

It struck me while watching the 14th Anniversary PPV that ROH is just relying too much on the NJPW talent instead of relying on it's deep roster. It's really become an excuse to just say to hell with the midcard and building stars/angles/feuds, we can just bring in NJPW stars to sell the shows. This is exactly why attendance in Nashville has taken a dip, they're always stuck with regulars and locals for Nashville, and when they don't build up the regulars enough (let's face it barely any effort is put into even the top regulars Lethal, Strong, reDRagon, Cole, Briscoes) a town gets killed within two years of running it the first time.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

While I agree with you for the most part, I hope you're prepared for an onslaught of guys complaining that you're negative.

[dhads7161]

While I agree with you for the most part, I hope you're prepared for an onslaught of guys complaining that you're negative.

Bring it on. I think I have fair point.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

You make a great point using Nashville as an example. I couldn't believe how many empty seats there were. I'm also weary of NJPW/ROH matches filling up cards. Maybe if storylines were built up, like Ishii, I wouldn't have such an issue. Great topic for a thread.

[dhads7161]

You make a great point using Nashville as an example. I couldn't believe how many empty seats there were. I'm also weary of NJPW/ROH matches filling up cards. Maybe if storylines were built up, like Ishii, I wouldn't have such an issue. Great topic for a thread.

The real big issue is all the ROH guys are bodies for the NJPW guys. The only NJPW guys that get beat are Gedo and Kushida.

[KL_]

You make a great point using Nashville as an example. I couldn't believe how many empty seats there were. I'm also weary of NJPW/ROH matches filling up cards. Maybe if storylines were built up, like Ishii, I wouldn't have such an issue. Great topic for a thread.

The real big issue is all the ROH guys are bodies for the NJPW guys. The only NJPW guys that get beat are Gedo and Kushida.

And Jushin Liger. Plus if I remember correctly, Lethal beat Naito in the ROH TV Championship Match.

[The Dragon Saga]

You make a great point using Nashville as an example. I couldn't believe how many empty seats there were. I'm also weary of NJPW/ROH matches filling up cards. Maybe if storylines were built up, like Ishii, I wouldn't have such an issue. Great topic for a thread.

The real big issue is all the ROH guys are bodies for the NJPW guys. The only NJPW guys that get beat are Gedo and Kushida.

And Jushin Liger. Plus if I remember correctly, Lethal beat Naito in the ROH TV Championship Match.

Spoiler: show

And Goto on an upcoming episode of TV.

Oh and Gedo and Okada lost to The Addiction. And reDRagon have dominated New Japan's jr. division. And O'Reilly went to the finals of BOSJ. And the ROH World title was defended in-front of 35,000 people. Oh and Tana, Okada and Nakamura have all had amazing matches with Roderick Strong. And Ishii will eventually have to drop the title. And AJ Styles lost to Michael Elgin and Jay Lethal while still working for New Japan.

But we'll ignore all that cause, Internet and contortion of reality and all that.

However, I agree to some degree, however ROH not drawing as well in Nashville could have been because a) they had been in Nashville only three months prior. Might have been too soon to go back b) NXT announced a Nashville date weeks after ROH did, tickets obviously slowed down and c) they moved to a new arena.

It's amazing that you say this yet people took issue with ROH trying to put focus on their rivalries and matches at the 14th instead of letting say Ishii face Goto to do a New Japan showcase, allowing more time for ROH-centered content. But hey, such is life.

[187_Joeism]

I would agree with the Nashville point if it was something regular but that´s not the case, they are doing good crowds without the New Japan guys.

Only protected New Japan wrestlers are Okada and Tanahashi right now, jury is on Ishii so i can´t say if he is protected or not until he loses the title, the other wrestlers can lose to the right opponent.

I can agree with people wanting ROH guys to go over more but that is not going to happen, only way it does it´s if some ROH guy becomes top gaijin in New Japan and even with that i don´t see New Japan letting Okada or Tanahashi losing to him at ROH.

ROH can also protect their top guys but their prefered having dream matches with them that fans want to see that doing that, you can complain about that if you want but if the choices are Cole facing Nakamura, Tanahashi and Okada with Cole losing all 3 matches or that matches not happening i would pick the dream matches.

[supersonic]

I also guarantee the shows with NJPW talent sell more DVDS/VODs. Silas Young and Donovan Dijak aren't significant needle movers, sorry.

ROH could also book every current star correctly, and I bet it's highly unlikely that any of them would have the aura to truly carry the brand night in, night out without inter promotional band-aids like those a decade ago. MAYBE Cole?

[187_Joeism]

New Japan is the second greatest company in the world, ROH should use them as much as they can. It only brings more attention to ROH.

[dhads7161]

Does it bring attention to the product? Yes. Is it cool seeing those guys in a U.S. company? Yes. But how long until that novelty wears off? It's not good for the product in the long run and will eventually stop being interesting when all the "dream matches" have happened. The novelty of ROH/NJPW will be worn off by the end of this year if ROH keeps using them so liberally, time to slow down with it.

[187_Joeism]

NJPW right now means money for ROH, you can´t blame them for using that resource in full force when available.

I understand the worry if the interest goes down but i see no signs of that happening anytime soon. For example Shibata is now a NJPW signed wrestler, if they bring him over to the US people will go appeshit for that.

[dhads7161]

NJPW right now means money for ROH, you can´t blame them for using that resource in full force when available.

There comes a point when using a good resource too often just begins to hurt that resource's value though. They're beginning to tread that water with it.

[187_Joeism]

All New Japan/ROH are still selling out, i don´t think we have to worry until that changes.

[supersonic]

The relationship has only gotten stronger. Any claims of diminishing returns yet is a house of cards statement.

[jordidebaas]

All New Japan/ROH are still selling out, i don´t think we have to worry until that changes.

If I'm not mistaken, the places they are going are all places that either sold out the last time they were there without NJPW guys, or they haven't been to in 9 months to a year. So yeah, if they wouldn't sell out, that would be a pretty big thing to worry about.
Also, if you sell out 6 shows a year, but are losing ticket sales on your other 30 shows because you can't create any stars of your own, that doesn't sound like good business to me. Not saying that's what's happening now, but just judging the succesfulness of the ROH-NJPW relationship by how many shows sell out isn't the best measuring stick, especially since they are supposed to be growing, and therefore in a year or two, you would expect them to be able to sell out these venues all by themselves.

[trufreedom]

But why would I as a fan give a shit about diminishing returns? I only care about the quality of the product I'm consuming, and if that 14th Anniversary show is any indication, it's hurting the product, at least in the way they're doing it now, bringing in a bunch of talent at time, and building whole cards around ROH vs NJ dream matches where you could pick 90% of the outcomes before the bell rang.

[The Dragon Saga]

Does it bring attention to the product? Yes. Is it cool seeing those guys in a U.S. company? Yes. But how long until that novelty wears off? It's not good for the product in the long run and will eventually stop being interesting when all the "dream matches" have happened. The novelty of ROH/NJPW will be worn off by the end of this year if ROH keeps using them so liberally, time to slow down with it.

Then what's the point of the relationship?! They aren't just doing a working agreement, their together to try and provide a better alternative to the WWE that isn't already out there by utilizing the talent pools of two promotions more than one, where both should benefit. Whether people want to exaggerate the win/loss record of ROH/New Japan guys - which is fucking stupid, mind you - is their own business, but if anyone on this planet wants to tell me that the relationship doesn't greatly better and aid ROH whether it be from an image, business or overall standpoint, their fucking idiots. The more they use them the more normal it becomes the more people will recognize that hey, they could go to an ROH show and see not just the ROH guys, but the New Japan guys too.

[trufreedom]

Does it bring attention to the product? Yes. Is it cool seeing those guys in a U.S. company? Yes. But how long until that novelty wears off? It's not good for the product in the long run and will eventually stop being interesting when all the "dream matches" have happened. The novelty of ROH/NJPW will be worn off by the end of this year if ROH keeps using them so liberally, time to slow down with it.

Then what's the point of the relationship?! They aren't just doing a working agreement, their together to try and provide a better alternative to the WWE that isn't already out there by utilizing the talent pools of two promotions more than one, where both should benefit. Whether people want to exaggerate the win/loss record of ROH/New Japan guys - which is fucking stupid, mind you - is their own business, but if anyone on this planet wants to tell me that the relationship doesn't greatly better and aid ROH whether it be from an image, business or overall standpoint, their fucking idiots. The more they use them the more normal it becomes the more people will recognize that hey, they could go to an ROH show and see not just the ROH guys, but the New Japan guys too.

Except those win-loss records are documented, rather than exaggerated.

[The Dragon Saga]

Does it bring attention to the product? Yes. Is it cool seeing those guys in a U.S. company? Yes. But how long until that novelty wears off? It's not good for the product in the long run and will eventually stop being interesting when all the "dream matches" have happened. The novelty of ROH/NJPW will be worn off by the end of this year if ROH keeps using them so liberally, time to slow down with it.

Then what's the point of the relationship?! They aren't just doing a working agreement, their together to try and provide a better alternative to the WWE that isn't already out there by utilizing the talent pools of two promotions more than one, where both should benefit. Whether people want to exaggerate the win/loss record of ROH/New Japan guys - which is fucking stupid, mind you - is their own business, but if anyone on this planet wants to tell me that the relationship doesn't greatly better and aid ROH whether it be from an image, business or overall standpoint, their fucking idiots. The more they use them the more normal it becomes the more people will recognize that hey, they could go to an ROH show and see not just the ROH guys, but the New Japan guys too.

Except those win-loss records are documented, rather than exaggerated.

Their importance is greatly exaggerated. Most of them don't mean shit. If Jay Lethal loses, it means something. If reDRagon lose to a New Japan team, it means something. But it's like people asking why did Goto go over Dalton at the 14th Anniversary?! Who thought Dalton was going to win when Goto was going to face Jay Lethal the next day? The same people who said it was "predictable" that Lethal was going to lose the World title in the triple threat. The same people who exaggerate the smallest, insignificant things on here despite the fact most of them either don't matter or aren't true.