ROH Winter Warriors Tour 2016 - Indy Review

[GrizzlyHorsemen]

http://411mania.com/wrestling/perrys-pe ... ianapolis/

There's my review, solid start to 2016 for ROH.

[FanSinceHDNet]

http://411mania.com/wrestling/perrys-pe ... ianapolis/

There's my review, solid start to 2016 for ROH.

Thanks for the review of the show, sounds solid. Just wish you wouldn't have started with such a strong statement about Kevin Kelly. I happened to think he did a better job than JR did by a LONG ways - he outpaced him in product knowledge, enthusiasm, and his ability to work professionally (and reign in, for lack of a better term) Matt Striker.

[Big Red Machine]

ROH Winter Warriors Tour: Indianapolis (1/15/2016)- Indianapolis, IN

Ian Riccaboni and Mr. Wrestling III are on commentary. The very first sentence out of Mr. Wrestling’s mouth literally sounded like “rararararararara SUPERKICK PARTY!”

WILL FERRARA vs. DALTON CASTLE (w/the Boys)- 6.5/10
This was a fine opener as it was, but I really think they should have let them have a lot more time. Ferrara has been stuck in creative limbo basically since he lost that TV Title shot in late October 2014, which was pretty much the very program that elevated from student to being a member of the main roster. Castle had a decent feud with Silas Young last year and is undeniably over, but the crappy magical reset button “the boys are back with Dalton now” switcharoo at Final Battle with there not having been any effect on Dalton whatsoever the whole time made that feel like a waste and has made Dalton feel like another guy like ACH or Matt Sydal or Will Ferrara or Caprice Coleman or even Cedric Alexander where although things might happen for them, it still feels like they are going nowhere at all.
Ferrara does seem to be in the middle of something with this “mysterious envelopes from Prince Nana” angle that has seen both him and Caprice Coleman become more aggressive, but one thing Ferrara has not been given the chance to do yet in ROH is show that he has the talent to be on this roster. Even Castle hasn’t really gotten that chance very often, and when he has, it has been against the likes of the world’s top workers like Roderick Strong or Adam Cole. I think it would have been great to give these two pretty much un-established guys twenty minutes to go out there and do their thing. To set the tone for the year by showing us that they do belong in ROH and that they are worth us paying attention to even if creative isn’t giving them much help (as well as kicking off the first house show of the year with a real bang- which could also help sell DVDs/VODs).

TRIPLE THREAT MATCH: Silas Young vs. ACH vs. Moose (w/Stokely Hathaway)- 6/10
Ian Riccaboni claimed that all three wrestlers were “coming into this match on a hot streak) which is wildly inaccurate because Moose is actually on a three-match losing streak and has lost six of his last eight (with only one singles victory) and Silas has lost three of his last four.
The match was fun, but shorter than I was expecting. Once again we have three guys who could benefit from getting time to show their stuff, but they aren’t given that time.

TIM HUGHES vs. MICHAEL ELGIN- DUD!
This match was trying to be both a babyface squash and a comedy match and it failed at being entertaining as both of those. It dragged on forever (it was the longest match on the show so far, going almost two minutes longer than the previous match, which is utterly ridiculous when you realize that this was a “comedy” squash and that was a competitive match between three guys we are supposed to see as rising stars) while recycling the same dull “jokes.” There was a point where they were on the outside for so long that even STEVE CORINO noticed it.
Tim Hughes has never shown me anything to make me think he is an ROH-caliber wrestler, but at this point I have to ask FROM A KAYFABE POINT OF VIEW: why does ROH even book this guy? This was his sixth match in ROH- including two pre-show matches- and he has still never won! Then there was the time he TRIED TO SAW OFF SOMEONE’S HAND! Now, in this match, he doesn’t even follow the Code of Honor. If this loser manages to still get booked again after not following the Code of Honor, then what is even the point of having it? It was made clear to us in the early days that management HATED the Prophecy because they wouldn’t shake hands and the only reason they kept getting booked was because 1) Daniels and Morgan were big stars, and eventually 2) they won the titles so ROH had to keep booking them. Those were the only factors that kept Christopher Daniels, Donovan Morgan, and Xavier in the promotion. And now we’ve got this guy who never wins and thinks it’s okay to saw off people’s hands and won’t even show the minimum level of respect required by the promotion… and there wasn’t even any talk of never booking him again.
I mean… Code of Honor issues aside, the f*cker ALWAYS LOSES! What happened to the good old days when we used to have matches based around the fact that “Guy X needs to pick up a win or he won’t get booked anymore?”
On commentary, the announcers pushed a “joke” (and I use that term loosely) that Hughes is supposedly Brutal Bob’s illegitimate son. This is the third time they’ve used a joke like that on commentary in ROH in recent years (they’ve claimed that Stokely Hathaway is Bad News Brown’s illegitimate son and there was also a joke going around that Caleb Seltzer was Kevin Kelly’s illegitimate son), and it has NEVER been funny. Not once. And yet they still tell it because maybe someone will laugh this time.
Hughes’ main role in ROH so far and his role in the foreseeable future (because for some inexplicable reason he actually does have a future in this promotion) has been to be Brutal Bob’s lackey… and I have to ask: “why the hell does Brutal Bob need a lackey?!” Hell… why the hell is ROH still keeping Brutal Bob around? What has he done for them? Of all of the guys he has brought in, who has actually been useful? Matt Taven was pretty good. Michael Bennett was good but it took him three years out of his five year run in ROH to get there. Hughes sucks. All of the other northeast guys he has found for them have been so useless that they barely ever come back, and if the recent graduates of the ROH Dojo (Mandy Leon, Cheeseburger, J. Diesel, Stokely Hathaway), are any indication, he’s not a great trainer, either. So why do they keep him around?!

reDRagon vs. KNIGHTS OF THE RISING DAWN (Frankie Kazarian & Chris Sabin)- 7.5/10
This was a great match and it got a lot of time (almost sixteen minutes) so I really shouldn’t complain, but I can’t help but feel like it could have been so much more. In this case though, I’ll put a bit of the blame on the wrestlers for that wasting at least a minute with that stupid never-ending crisscross comedy spot, which was quite unwelcome after the last match). Still… a few more minutes wouldn’t have hurt, either.

BJ Whitmer has replaced Mr. Wrestling III on commentary.

ADAM PAGE vs. KEN PHOENIX- 4/10
Page came out to different music than the usual Decade music, which upset Whitmer. Whitmer said this would all be “straightened out” by the end of the night.
Ian Riccaboni blames Page and Whitmer’s impending break-up on Whitmer not having enough time for Page because he was busy getting Colby Corino into the Tor Prospect Tournament (how long could that have possibly taken?) and “guiding Kelly Kline to the top of the Women of Honor” (she’s had less than five matches in ROH). Making things even worse is that, based on what we’ve seen playing out on our screens for the last few months, the issues between Whitmer and Page have been based on Whitmer often inadvertently costing Page matches because something happens with Whitmer (he gets into an argument with someone at ringside or gets hurt) which distracts Page and causes him to lose. I have a bad feeling that this Whitmer-Page breakup (which is a terrible idea in the first place) is going to wind up being another one of those trademark Delirious angles where “this is what’s happening, okay! Just accept the facts that we tell you and disregard whatever we did before and whatever logical thinking tells you that doesn’t mesh with what we want.”
Ian would later claim that Whitmer “left [Page] out to dry” against Jay Briscoe which is an utterly ridiculous statement because WHITMER WAS ON CRUTCHES AT THE TIME! What the f*ck did you want him to do?
The match itself was pretty good for a five minute match.

ADAM PAGE & BJ WHITMER SEGMENT- didn’t like it
Apparently in Charlotte Steve Corino convinced Page to turn babyface and Page punched Whitmer. Whitmer, being a heel, manages to insult Page while offering to forget the whole thing and extends his hand to his protégé in friendship. Page responds by saying that of all the things Whitmer has taught him, the most important was that “the Decade doesn’t shake hands” so he slaps Whitmer and they had a brawl which was quickly broken up by security.
Then Steve Corino showed up. There was no explanation for why he isn’t still suspended, but the crowd went nuts for him. Whitmer backed down and went to the back, then Corino offered Page a handshake and Page accepted. I found this part weird because it seemed to me that Page’s earlier comment implied that he was the one kicking Whitmer out of the Decade, and thus Page shaking Corino’s hand here makes no sense. After thinking about it for a bit, I think what they were trying to get across was that because “the Decade doesn’t shake hands,” Page knew that Whitmer’s overture of friendship was a trap and thus it is actually Page leaving the Decade… but the problem is that that wasn’t how it came across to me (and probably others as well) at first. Better commentary would have solved this problem. Whether the problem here is that Ian Riccaboni failed to get this message across to the audience or that the booker did not communicate to Ian what the correct message to get across was I can’t say, but either way, this important information failed to reach the audience, and that’s not good.
That bit about commentary aside, the execution here was fine for what they wanted, but I still think that both turning Page babyface and separating him from Whitmer are major mistakes right now.

ROH TV TITLE MATCH: Roderick Strong(c) vs. Curry Man- 7/10
Bobby Fish has now joined Ian Riccaboni on commentary. He is claiming to be “co-champions” with Roderick Strong. I guess he is trying to be facetious, but he is coming across as really annoying.
Roddy vows to beat Curry Man in less than five minutes. Then he teases walking out a whole bunch of times before the match has even started. What a pointless waste of time.
The match was pretty great, but would have been a lot better if they hadn’t wasted the first few minutes on dumb comedy and then interrupted the match for more dumb comedy at one or two points later on. Fish’s commentary was unbearably bad.

ALEX SHELLEY vs. ADAM COLE- 8/10
Mr. Wrestling III is now back on commentary. He and Riccabonni were joined by Chris Sabin for this match.
The match was awesome, although it would have been better if Shelley had sold his leg more during the second half of it. The other thing about this match was the disappointingly unclean finish, which saw Kazarian come out and distract the referee, allowing Cole to prevent Sliced Bread #2 with a low blow, then hit the Brainbuster on to the knee for the win. I understand why they did the finish the finish they did (Cole is on his way to a world title match so you can’t beat him, and you don’t want to beat Shelley so early into his return, plus doing this lets you do the post-match bit to continue the Sabin-Shelley thing), but that doesn’t stop it from being disappointing.
It all makes sense mechanically, but no matter what the circumstances, no one wants see a first-time ever dream match have to end in a bullsh*t finish. I think I would feel a bit better about this if I had any faith we would get a rematch with a clean finish, but Delirious has shown a tendency to not follow up on dirty finishes in any way at all, so I’m afraid we won’t be getting any follow-up for this match, either.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- okay
Kazarian went to beat up Shelley. Sabin started to get into the ring but we don’t know if he was going to save Shelley or help beat him down because ACH charged out and chased off by Kaz and Sabin. This was basically just treading water, which is perfectly fine for a house show, but it’d be nice if these water-treading segments could lead to something at some point, like having this result in us getting Shelley & ACH vs. Sabin & Kaz or something. It would just make it feel like there is more going on here than just treading water.

WAR MACHINE & THE BRISCOES vs. THE YOUNG BUCKS & THE ALL NIGHT EXPRESS- 7.75/10
Scarlett accidentally introduced ANX as the Young Bucks’ opponents instead of their tag team partners. A simple announcing mistake? Of course. But if you think about it, they SHOULD have been opponents tonight. The angles going in to this match are the following:
1. ANX have beaten a bunch of other teams since their return, but they are unhappy because they have not beaten the Young Bucks despite having them beaten at Survival of the Fittest 2015: Night 2 but the ref was down so the pin was never counted, and the Bucks went on to win that match.
2. There is an angle simmering in the background where the War Machine have never beaten the Briscoes, but the Briscoes own several victories over them.
3. ANX are owed a tag title shot because they won a tag title shot at Final Battle

Spoiler: show

which happened at the Charlotte TV tapings and ANX won by DQ when Rowe put Rhett through a table.

Logically this means the following: ANX and the Bucks should be on opposite sides, War Machine and the Briscoes should be on opposite sides, and War Machine and ANX should be on opposite sides… which means that this match should have been ANX & the Briscoes vs. War Machine & The Young Bucks (this also evens the teams out size-wise as the match we actually got had the two biggest teams facing the two smallest teams).
Assuming that you don’t want to pin War Machine to set up a tag title shot for someone (which you don’t really need to do right now because you have ANX with an outstanding title shot and an angle that makes sense for a title shot at the next PPV), you have one of the Briscoes pin one of the Bucks or vice-versa, as you have damaged neither the champions nor the challengers and preserved the important relationships between ANX and the Bucks and between War Machine and the Briscoes.
(If it were up to me, I’d have one of the Bucks pin one of the Briscoes because the Bucks have been losing a lot recently whereas the Briscoes have a bunch of random tag matches coming up that they can win or lose depending on what you need, and there title shot should be far enough down the road that they can take a loss here and you’ll have more than enough time to rebuild them. War Machine will beat ANX at the Anniversary Show while you start building the Bucks up. You can do ANX vs. Bucks either in Philly or at Supercard of Honor X with the Bucks going over [and extra points if you can figure out a way to quickly rebuild ANX to make it not feel forced for this to be billed as a #1 contendership match], both keeping that story alive and also setting the Bucks up for a title shot at either Supercard of Honor X or one of the New Japan shows… where, of course, War Machine will beat them. In the meantime, you are building up the Briscoes- starting with the match against Tanahashi and Elgin at the 14th Anniversary Show and at one of the New Japan shows or on a TV taping soon thereafter, you have the Briscoes get a pinfall over War Machine to both earn them a tag title shot and get it fresh in everyone’s minds that War Machine have never beaten the Briscoes, and the Briscoes are really focused on winning ROH World Tag Team Championship #9, and there is your tag title match for Best in the World 2016).
Instead, what we got here was a match that, by aligning the teams the way they did preserved the two “X has not beaten Y” relationships not my making them matter but rather by specifically making them not matter. That is the exact opposite of what you want to do with your storylines. Even more bafflingly, they had played up the Parejas Increibles aspect of this match a bit during the build-up, but it had no effect whatsoever on the actual match, so there was absolutely no justification to book the match the way they did.
Also, for no explicable reason, they had ANX get pinned, even though they’re the freakin’ #1 contenders! ROH has put WAY too much effort into protecting the Briscoes in the past few months, and it has always come at the expense of teams who were in the title picture at the time (ANX and the Addiction), damaging what a good booker would have been able to turn into big tag team title matches.
As for the actual match itself, it was exactly what you would expect: They obeyed the rules or a while, but then it just became a crazy free-for-all of moves. At least they kept the legal men straight.

A very… standard… show from ROH. At this point, this is what I have come to expect from Delirious. Matches will deliver to pretty much the level you expect them to and the overall quality of the wrestling will be high… but the booking will range somewhere between bland and baffling, dirty finishes will happen often and not be followed up on, (because the point of them is to tread water instead of to build to something), and main events are going to be lazily booked spot-fests which are guaranteed to get big pops but won’t ever mean anything or feel important. If this is the new ROH house show, I’m probably going to stop watching as many of them.

[GrizzlyHorsemen]

http://411mania.com/wrestling/perrys-pe ... ianapolis/

There's my review, solid start to 2016 for ROH.

Thanks for the review of the show, sounds solid. Just wish you wouldn't have started with such a strong statement about Kevin Kelly. I happened to think he did a better job than JR did by a LONG ways - he outpaced him in product knowledge, enthusiasm, and his ability to work professionally (and reign in, for lack of a better term) Matt Striker.

Thanks for reading. I can't say I enjoyed JR's commentary too much last year either. For Kelly though I felt like he was only really talking, showing any knowledge when ROH talents were involved. Even with that I didn't see him contributing a lot to the overall experience.

[GrizzlyHorsemen]

PWP Reviewer seemed to hate the show: http://www.pwponderings.com/2016/02/02/ ... is-review/

Big Red and I were pretty close to being on the same page.

[Ladrao12]

PWP Reviewer seemed to hate the show:

PWP hates every ROH show.

[ninetwentyfour]

PWP Reviewer seemed to hate the show:

PWP hates every ROH show.

ROH has been on a really poor run as of late.

No fear, however, NJPW is about to be here to save the day and give ROH some buzz.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Here's my review of the show:

http://dxvsnwo1994.blogspot.com/2016/07 ... ur-16.html