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supersonic wrote:Revisit HBK's return match against HHH, which involved non-sanction rules and back injury psychology, then get back to us.

HHH is showing in recent years some really grating stubbornness to adjust his in-ring philosophy. While it worked perfectly with an all-time technical and babyface wizard like Danielson, it didn't benefit Lesnar, Reigns, or Rollins, who needed their matches against him to be spectacles of different flavors with some true peaks-and-valleys like the mentioned classic against HBK.

I'm not saying this was better than that match (I have that at 10/10 and this at 9.25/10). I just don't understand why people hate this one so much. Yes, you can look at something else they could have done and said "doing it this way probably would have been better" but just because that would have been "better" does not mean that this was in any way bad- or even that it wasn't really darn great.

And I also don't see how you can possibly judge the effect this has had on Rollins less two weeks after the match.

Big Red Machine wrote:

supersonic wrote:Revisit HBK's return match against HHH, which involved non-sanction rules and back injury psychology, then get back to us.

HHH is showing in recent years some really grating stubbornness to adjust his in-ring philosophy. While it worked perfectly with an all-time technical and babyface wizard like Danielson, it didn't benefit Lesnar, Reigns, or Rollins, who needed their matches against him to be spectacles of different flavors with some true peaks-and-valleys like the mentioned classic against HBK.

I'm not saying this was better than that match (I have that at 10/10 and this at 9.25/10). I just don't understand why people hate this one so much. Yes, you can look at something else they could have done and said "doing it this way probably would have been better" but just because that would have been "better" does not mean that this was in any way bad- or even that it wasn't really darn great.

And I also don't see how you can possibly judge the effect this has had on Rollins less two weeks after the match.

The problem here is Triple H in itself. I am an old school guy that enjoyed The Andersons working different body parts for long durations. He just has shown inability to adapt his match to tailor the strengths of his opposition. Rollins should have come out of that match looking like a star. Not so much. It reminds of when CM Punk thought he was going to wrestle Triple H at WretleMania right before he quit. He turned to Triple H and said, "You need me more that I need you.". He's right then and its carrying over now. All these matches at WrestleMania are, are glorified exhibitions for Trips. To remind us that he is still around, glorifying a career that was never quite as good as he thinks it was. You put HBK in there against Rollins were talking about a show stealing match.

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote:

supersonic wrote:Revisit HBK's return match against HHH, which involved non-sanction rules and back injury psychology, then get back to us.

HHH is showing in recent years some really grating stubbornness to adjust his in-ring philosophy. While it worked perfectly with an all-time technical and babyface wizard like Danielson, it didn't benefit Lesnar, Reigns, or Rollins, who needed their matches against him to be spectacles of different flavors with some true peaks-and-valleys like the mentioned classic against HBK.

I'm not saying this was better than that match (I have that at 10/10 and this at 9.25/10). I just don't understand why people hate this one so much. Yes, you can look at something else they could have done and said "doing it this way probably would have been better" but just because that would have been "better" does not mean that this was in any way bad- or even that it wasn't really darn great.

And I also don't see how you can possibly judge the effect this has had on Rollins less two weeks after the match.

The problem here is Triple H in itself. I am an old school guy that enjoyed The Andersons working different body parts for long durations. He just has shown inability to adapt his match to tailor the strengths of his opposition. Rollins should have come out of that match looking like a star. Not so much. It reminds of when CM Punk thought he was going to wrestle Triple H at WretleMania right before he quit. He turned to Triple H and said, "You need me more that I need you.". He's right then and its carrying over now. All these matches at WrestleMania are, are glorified exhibitions for Trips. To remind us that he is still around, glorifying a career that was never quite as good as he thinks it was. You put HBK in there against Rollins were talking about a show stealing match.

Was it an exhibition for Hunter? Yes. But it was also one for Rollins. He went into a match against someone who, deserved or not, WWE has pushed as a megastar, and he beat him. Did I like the Steph finish? No. It would have been better for Rollins to win without any sort of distraction whatsoever. But 1) at least they had a storyline reason for doing it (which I also thought was stupid but at least there was a reason for it) and 2) Rollins went into that match with a severe disadvantage. Seth Rollins bravely took a fight that he appeared to have no chance of winning, then suffered through immeasurable punishment on an already injured body part, came back, and won the match. I don't see how you can say that he didn't come out of this match looking like a bigger star.

As for not being able to adapt to his opponents strengths:
1. I HATED that match with Sting, and that match ENTIRELY about adapting to Sting's limitations
2. I thought the Roman match was more of an experiment than anything else. If Roman is getting booed out of the building doing his normal Roman stuff, let's try doing something more old school and see how that works)
3. What kind of match would you rather he had with Rollins. I think this sort of thing is much more Seth's strength than brawling, and those were the only two options given the story going in.

1. You mean the match that intelligently used smoke-and-mirrors to pop the Levi's crowd?
2. HHH should've swallowed his ego and allowed himself to be demolished by Reigns in no more than 10 minutes. Then the Lesnar vs. Reigns rematch is billed as "The one that demolished Cena vs. the one that demolished HHH... Who is the alpha male of WWE?" The resentment that would've still endured from AT&T Stadium towards Reigns shining so brightly would be pacified by the argument of "Would you rather have suffered for 30 minutes of HHH stroking his ego trying to be the modern-day Harley Race?"
3. Since Rollins couldn't fly around as much, HHH sucks it up for the first time in ages and takes the more substantial amount of crazy bumps to make the match more memorable. Honestly though, Rollins being injured hindered the match from reaching its ****+ potential, and since so many big names were left off the card (including Joe entirely), I'd have let the match become an interference-fest, leading into an impromptu trios match of Balor, Rollins, & Zayn vs. Strowman, Joe, & HHH. Voila, exciting match that allows for all kinds of insanity, ties in numerous stories, features a huge return, and gets both Balor and Joe the Mania paydays that they're morally entitled to based on their talent and star power.

this is about scoh not triple h.

supersonic wrote:1. You mean the match that intelligently used smoke-and-mirrors to pop the Levi's crowd?
2. HHH should've swallowed his ego and allowed himself to be demolished by Reigns in no more than 10 minutes. Then the Lesnar vs. Reigns rematch is billed as "The one that demolished Cena vs. the one that demolished HHH... Who is the alpha male of WWE?" The resentment that would've still endured from AT&T Stadium towards Reigns shining so brightly would be pacified by the argument of "Would you rather have suffered for 30 minutes of HHH stroking his ego trying to be the modern-day Harley Race?"
3. Since Rollins couldn't fly around as much, HHH sucks it up for the first time in ages and takes the more substantial amount of crazy bumps to make the match more memorable. Honestly though, Rollins being injured hindered the match from reaching its ****+ potential, and since so many big names were left off the card (including Joe entirely), I'd have let the match become an interference-fest, leading into an impromptu trios match of Balor, Rollins, & Zayn vs. Strowman, Joe, & HHH. Voila, exciting match that allows for all kinds of insanity, ties in numerous stories, features a huge return, and gets both Balor and Joe the Mania paydays that they're morally entitled to based on their talent and star power.

1. Yes. That seems to be an example that counters your point that he can't adapt to the styles that others need to wrestle. I just personally hated the match because it was nothing but a bunch of nonsensical run-ins of guys who, aside from HBK, I had no interest in seeing. And COME ON! The nWo helping Sting?
2. I totally disagree with you that the resentment would have been pacified. The fans do not want to see Roman Reigns as a babyface, so seeing him demolish Hunter in a short match (especially in a WrestleMania main event) wouldn't have helped. If anything, your theory about how the fans would react to Hunter trying to be Harley Race would mean that the fans would be getting more behind Roman during a long Hunter match because any Roman Reigns comeback would mean that the finish was coming soon. You greatly underestimate the dislike for Roman, and even if you were right about his, any and all good will this created would have been immediately erased by having Roman beat AJ over the next two months.
3. The interference thing certainly would have worked (at least with Zayn and Joe), but I wouldn't have turned it into a trios match. You don't spent this much time building up a match and then deliver something else. Also, how would you have explained Balor siding with Rollins?
As for Hunter taking the big crazy bumps... he's the heel, and the whole story is Seth going into the match injured. The story of this match had to be Hunter working over Rollins' knee.

Sting and nWo had patched up in TNA, having earned respect. Also the nWo saw an opportunity to battle against DX and get their mugs on WrestleMania.

supersonic wrote:Sting and nWo had patched up in TNA, having earned respect. Also the nWo saw an opportunity to battle against DX and get their mugs on WrestleMania.

Oh, yeah, that makes sense

supersonic wrote:Sting and nWo had patched up in TNA, having earned respect. Also the nWo saw an opportunity to battle against DX and get their mugs on WrestleMania.

If we never saw it on screen and were never told about, it didn't happen. And as for fighting against DX... why would Hall and Nash want to do that? Waltman, Hunter, and Shawn are their best buddies, which has been acknowledged on screen. This should have been The Kliq and the New Age Outlaws beating up on Sting and Hogan.

Faction pride battle to settle the what if question of 16-17 years.

Not enough dialogue going on about the masturbatory booking of simultaneously putting over both Triple H and WWE’s canon of supremacy. If the tone and import of the match weren’t so bonkers then it would have been a pretty forgettable match.

Big Red Machine wrote:

supersonic wrote:Sting and nWo had patched up in TNA, having earned respect. Also the nWo saw an opportunity to battle against DX and get their mugs on WrestleMania.

If we never saw it on screen and were never told about, it didn't happen. And as for fighting against DX... why would Hall and Nash want to do that? Waltman, Hunter, and Shawn are their best buddies, which has been acknowledged on screen. This should have been The Kliq and the New Age Outlaws beating up on Sting and Hogan.

And shouldn't Waltman have been conflicted once the NWO came out as he was a member of both?